I use Guildmages' Forum to pay for Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle. Does it enter with a +1/+1 counter, even if it isn't a creature? I'd say yes because the ruling of the card says Arixmethes count as much as a creature as a land for entering the battlefield abilities but this isn't exactly that.
On the other hand, can i use Oran-Rief, the Vastwood nor Novijen, Heart of Progress to put a +1/+1 counter on Arixmethes ? I would say no, because it isn't a creature yet (if i don't cast 4 spells the same turn i cast him or remove the slumber counters any other way, that is) even if they don't need a target, but i'm really not sure.
I use Guildmages' Forum to pay for Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle. Does it enter with a +1/+1 counter, even if it isn't a creature? I'd say yes because the ruling of the card says Arixmethes count as much as a creature as a land for entering the battlefield abilities but this isn't exactly that.
Guildmage's Forum cares about the spell being a creature spell, so a spell (thus an object on the stack) with the creature card type. That is true for Arixmethes no matter how it ends up looking on the battlefield. So it enters with the +1/+1 counter, creature or not.
On the other hand, can i use Oran-Rief, the Vastwood nor Novijen, Heart of Progress to put a +1/+1 counter on Arixmethes ? I would say no, because it isn't a creature yet (if i don't cast 4 spells the same turn i cast him or remove the slumber counters any other way, that is) even if they don't need a target, but i'm really not sure.
Those lands care about the permanent being a creature. If Arixmethes isn't a creature on the battlefield when the abilities of those lands resolve, it won't get a counter. Arixmethes does not have to enter as a creature even, it just has to be a creature on the field during the resolution of those abilities, and it has to have entered the battlefield this turn (and be green in the case of Oran-Reef).
That is true for Arixmethes no matter how it ends up looking on the battlefield. So it enters with the +1/+1 counter, creature or not.
I'm not sure I understand why. Doesn't this contradict rule 614.12? Guildmages' Forum specifically says ..."that creature enters the battlefield with..."
614.12. (...)To determine which replacement effects apply and how they apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield (...)
Guildmages' Forum specifically says ..."that creature enters the battlefield with..."
Rule 700.7 says that doesn't matter
700.7. If an ability of an object uses a phrase such as “this [something]” to identify an object, where [something] is a characteristic, it is referring to that particular object, even if it isn’t the appropriate characteristic at the time.
Example: An ability reads “Target creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn. Destroy that creature at the beginning of the next end step.” The ability will destroy the object it gave +2/+2 to even if that object isn’t a creature at the beginning of the next end step.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Why bother with mere rulings when so many answers can be found in the Rules?
700.7. If an ability of an object uses a phrase such as “this [something]” to identify an object, where [something] is a characteristic, it is referring to that particular object, even if it isn’t the appropriate characteristic at the time.
Edit:
Took me a while to find the rule. Obviously, Argus was faster.
On the other hand, can i use Oran-Rief, the Vastwood nor Novijen, Heart of Progress to put a +1/+1 counter on Arixmethes ? I would say no, because it isn't a creature yet (if i don't cast 4 spells the same turn i cast him or remove the slumber counters any other way, that is) even if they don't need a target, but i'm really not sure.
Guildmage's Forum cares about the spell being a creature spell, so a spell (thus an object on the stack) with the creature card type. That is true for Arixmethes no matter how it ends up looking on the battlefield. So it enters with the +1/+1 counter, creature or not.
Those lands care about the permanent being a creature. If Arixmethes isn't a creature on the battlefield when the abilities of those lands resolve, it won't get a counter. Arixmethes does not have to enter as a creature even, it just has to be a creature on the field during the resolution of those abilities, and it has to have entered the battlefield this turn (and be green in the case of Oran-Reef).
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
RULES OF MAGIC :
http://magic.wizards.com/en/game-info/gameplay/rules-and-formats/rules
Rule 700.7 says that doesn't matter
RULES OF MAGIC :
http://magic.wizards.com/en/game-info/gameplay/rules-and-formats/rules
Edit:
Took me a while to find the rule. Obviously, Argus was faster.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)