So now I have tons of questions on how the -1/-1 works and how the battlefield would look after the fact
1. So all the 1/1 would die with massacre girl ETB but is there an order that I can have them die in?
2. Does zulaport cutthroat trigger for all the 1/1s dying or just itself? as it dies at the same time as the other 1/1s so it only sees itself dying?
3. Do the 0/1 spawn creatures entering the battlefield because of Pawn of Ulamog stay alive as they came into the battlefield after the -1-1 ETB happened
Now Massacre girl texts reads that when another creature dies this turn each creature other than massacre girl gets -1/-1
1a. When do these triggers happen?? As soon as 1 creature hits the yard?? Do all creatures hit the yard at the same time so now everything gets like -5/-5?
Basically I just need clarification on how and when the -1/-1triggers as that will clear a bunch of stuff up
1c. Could someone run me through this board state and show me how it would come out just as laid about above.. With no other interactions from other players or other cards except what you see.
Thanks for taking the time to explain this.. Just want to make sure I have the timing correct and understand how the cards interact properly!
So now I have tons of questions on how the -1/-1 works and how the battlefield would look after the fact
1. So all the 1/1 would die with massacre girl ETB but is there an order that I can have them die in?
No, it's simultaneous.
704.3. Whenever a player would get priority (see rule 117, “Timing and Priority”), the game checks for
any of the listed conditions for state-based actions, then performs all applicable state-based actions
simultaneously as a single event. If any state-based actions are performed as a result of a check, the
check is repeated; otherwise all triggered abilities that are waiting to be put on the stack are put on
the stack, then the check is repeated. Once no more state-based actions have been performed as the
result of a check and no triggered abilities are waiting to be put on the stack, the appropriate player
gets priority. This process also occurs during the cleanup step (see rule 514), except that if no statebased
actions are performed as the result of the step’s first check and no triggered abilities are
waiting to be put on the stack, then no player gets priority and the step ends.
704.5f If a creature has toughness 0 or less, it’s put into its owner’s graveyard. Regeneration can’t
replace this event.
You would get to choose the resulting sequence in your graveyard (i.e., which one is on top), not that it probably matters.
2. Does zulaport cutthroat trigger for all the 1/1s dying or just itself? as it dies at the same time as the other 1/1s so it only sees itself dying?
All including itself.
603.10. Normally, objects that exist immediately after an event are checked to see if the event matched
any trigger conditions, and continuous effects that exist at that time are used to determine what the
trigger conditions are and what the objects involved in the event look like. However, some triggered
abilities are exceptions to this rule; the game “looks back in time” to determine if those abilities
trigger, using the existence of those abilities and the appearance of objects immediately prior to the
event. The list of exceptions is as follows:
603.10a Some zone-change triggers look back in time. These are leaves-the-battlefield abilities,
abilities that trigger when a card leaves a graveyard, and abilities that trigger when an object
that all players can see is put into a hand or library.
Example: Two creatures are on the battlefield along with an artifact that has the ability
“Whenever a creature dies, you gain 1 life.” Someone casts a spell that destroys all
artifacts, creatures, and enchantments. The artifact’s ability triggers twice, even though
the artifact goes to its owner’s graveyard at the same time as the creatures.
3. Do the 0/1 spawn creatures entering the battlefield because of Pawn of Ulamog stay alive as they came into the battlefield after the -1-1 ETB happened
They are not affected by the immediate -1/-1 from the ETB ability. (But they might be affected by the delayed trigger you mention in your next question.)
611.2c If a continuous effect generated by the resolution of a spell or ability modifies the
characteristics or changes the controller of any objects, the set of objects it affects is determined
when that continuous effect begins. After that point, the set won’t change. (Note that this works
differently than a continuous effect from a static ability.) A continuous effect generated by the
resolution of a spell or ability that doesn’t modify the characteristics or change the controller of
any objects modifies the rules of the game, so it can affect objects that weren’t affected when
that continuous effect began. If a single continuous effect has parts that modify the
characteristics or changes the controller of any objects and other parts that don’t, the set of
objects each part applies to is determined independently.
Example: An effect that reads “All white creatures get +1/+1 until end of turn” gives
the bonus to all permanents that are white creatures when the spell or ability resolves—
even if they change color later—and doesn’t affect those that enter the battlefield or turn
white afterward.
Now Massacre girl texts reads that when another creature dies this turn each creature other than massacre girl gets -1/-1
1a. When do these triggers happen?? As soon as 1 creature hits the yard?? Do all creatures hit the yard at the same time so now everything gets like -5/-5?
Triggered abilities go on the stack the next time someone would gain priority, so you will be piling six "Whenever a creature dies this turn, each creature other than Massacre Girl gets -1/-1 until end of turn." abilities on the stack, along with six "Whenever Zulaport Cutthroat or another creature you control dies, each opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.", one "Whenever Pawn of Ulamog or another nontoken creature you control dies, you may create a 0/1 colorless Eldrazi Spawn creature token. It has "Sacrifice this creature: Add C."", three "Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies, put a +1/+1 counter on Yahenni, Undying Partisan.", one "Whenever another nontoken creature dies, you may draw a card.", and one "Whenever a creature dies, scry 1."
603.3. Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object that’s not a card the
next time a player would receive priority. See rule 117, “Timing and Priority.” The ability becomes
the topmost object on the stack. It has the text of the ability that created it, and no other
characteristics. It remains on the stack until it’s countered, it resolves, a rule causes it to be removed
from the stack, or an effect moves it elsewhere.
603.3b If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, each player,
in APNAP order, puts triggered abilities they control on the stack in any order they choose. (See
rule 101.4.) Then the game once again checks for and resolves state-based actions until none are
performed, then abilities that triggered during this process go on the stack. This process repeats
until no new state-based actions are performed and no abilities trigger. Then the appropriate
player gets priority.
3a. How many 0/1 spawn tokens would I get off Pawn of Ulamog? Would they die pretty much immediately?
One off the first wave of death, and another one from the trigger when Pawn of Ulamog dies. The order in which you put all those triggered abilities on the stack will affect how long they survive. For example, if you put the Pawn of Ulamog's ability on the stack first, it will resolve last, and the token will miss those -1/-1 effects.
1c. Could someone run me through this board state and show me how it would come out just as laid about above.. With no other interactions from other players or other cards except what you see.
Probably not, because it depends on decisions you make each time multiple triggers are put on the stack.
Now Massacre girl texts reads that when another creature dies this turn each creature other than massacre girl gets -1/-1
1a. When do these triggers happen?? As soon as 1 creature hits the yard?? Do all creatures hit the yard at the same time so now everything gets like -5/-5?
Triggered abilities go on the stack the next time someone would gain priority, so you will be piling six "Whenever a creature dies this turn, each creature other than Massacre Girl gets -1/-1 until end of turn." abilities on the stack, along with six "Whenever Zulaport Cutthroat or another creature you control dies, each opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.", one "Whenever Pawn of Ulamog or another nontoken creature you control dies, you may create a 0/1 colorless Eldrazi Spawn creature token. It has "Sacrifice this creature: Add C."", three "Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies, put a +1/+1 counter on Yahenni, Undying Partisan.", one "Whenever another nontoken creature dies, you may draw a card.", and one "Whenever a creature dies, scry 1."
603.3. Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object that’s not a card the
next time a player would receive priority. See rule 117, “Timing and Priority.” The ability becomes
the topmost object on the stack. It has the text of the ability that created it, and no other
characteristics. It remains on the stack until it’s countered, it resolves, a rule causes it to be removed
from the stack, or an effect moves it elsewhere.
603.3b If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, each player,
in APNAP order, puts triggered abilities they control on the stack in any order they choose. (See
rule 101.4.) Then the game once again checks for and resolves state-based actions until none are
performed, then abilities that triggered during this process go on the stack. This process repeats
until no new state-based actions are performed and no abilities trigger. Then the appropriate
player gets priority.
Thanks a ton for walking me through this.. That helps alot.
Wouldn't I get 6 "whenever a creature dies Scry 1" triggers instead of just 1 like you said above as Shadows of the past say whenever a creature dies it does not say whenever a NON token creature dies??
Wouldn't I get 6 "whenever a creature dies Scry 1" triggers instead of just 1 like you said above as Shadows of the past say whenever a creature dies it does not say whenever a NON token creature dies??
Thanks for the clarification
Whoops, yes.
Also, Zulaport Cutthroat would only have three triggers from the first wave of death.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Why bother with mere rulings when so many answers can be found in the Rules?
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So let me set up the board.
I have:
1/1 myr token
1/1 soldier token
1/1 zulaport cutthroat
2/2 pawn of ulamog
2/2 Yahenni, Undying Partisan
5/5 Harvester of souls
vanilla 10/10
Enchantment: Shadows of the past
Opponent has:
1/1 vampire token
1/1 warrior token
1/1 faerie token
vanilla 3/3, 6/6, 8/8
I cast massacre girl.. She resolves.
So now I have tons of questions on how the -1/-1 works and how the battlefield would look after the fact
1. So all the 1/1 would die with massacre girl ETB but is there an order that I can have them die in?
2. Does zulaport cutthroat trigger for all the 1/1s dying or just itself? as it dies at the same time as the other 1/1s so it only sees itself dying?
3. Do the 0/1 spawn creatures entering the battlefield because of Pawn of Ulamog stay alive as they came into the battlefield after the -1-1 ETB happened
Now Massacre girl texts reads that when another creature dies this turn each creature other than massacre girl gets -1/-1
1a. When do these triggers happen?? As soon as 1 creature hits the yard?? Do all creatures hit the yard at the same time so now everything gets like -5/-5?
2a. How many cards would I draw off Harvester of souls?
3a. How many 0/1 spawn tokens would I get off Pawn of Ulamog? Would they die pretty much immediately?
4a. When do I scy1 off of shadows of the past?
5a .Would Yahenni, Undying Partisan live?
Are these cards the same or different because of the wording?
Zulaport cutthroat - each opponent loses life
Vindictive Vampire - vindictive vampire deals damage to each opponent
1b. Is the wording on vindictive vampire make it act differently than zulaport cutthroat or are they essentially the same card?
Basically I just need clarification on how and when the -1/-1triggers as that will clear a bunch of stuff up
1c. Could someone run me through this board state and show me how it would come out just as laid about above.. With no other interactions from other players or other cards except what you see.
Thanks for taking the time to explain this.. Just want to make sure I have the timing correct and understand how the cards interact properly!
No, it's simultaneous.
You would get to choose the resulting sequence in your graveyard (i.e., which one is on top), not that it probably matters.
All including itself.
They are not affected by the immediate -1/-1 from the ETB ability. (But they might be affected by the delayed trigger you mention in your next question.)
Triggered abilities go on the stack the next time someone would gain priority, so you will be piling six "Whenever a creature dies this turn, each creature other than Massacre Girl gets -1/-1 until end of turn." abilities on the stack, along with six "Whenever Zulaport Cutthroat or another creature you control dies, each opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.", one "Whenever Pawn of Ulamog or another nontoken creature you control dies, you may create a 0/1 colorless Eldrazi Spawn creature token. It has "Sacrifice this creature: Add C."", three "Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies, put a +1/+1 counter on Yahenni, Undying Partisan.", one "Whenever another nontoken creature dies, you may draw a card.", and one "Whenever a creature dies, scry 1."
One from the first wave of death. The exact quantity in the end will depend on the order you choose for putting triggered abilities on the stack.
One off the first wave of death, and another one from the trigger when Pawn of Ulamog dies. The order in which you put all those triggered abilities on the stack will affect how long they survive. For example, if you put the Pawn of Ulamog's ability on the stack first, it will resolve last, and the token will miss those -1/-1 effects.
Each time one of its abilities resolves.
No. The deaths of your creatures will trigger Massacre Girl's ability but not Yahenni's ability.
Damage to a player often results in loss of life, but it is not the same thing as loss of life. For one thing, damage can be prevented.
Probably not, because it depends on decisions you make each time multiple triggers are put on the stack.
Triggered abilities go on the stack the next time someone would gain priority, so you will be piling six "Whenever a creature dies this turn, each creature other than Massacre Girl gets -1/-1 until end of turn." abilities on the stack, along with six "Whenever Zulaport Cutthroat or another creature you control dies, each opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.", one "Whenever Pawn of Ulamog or another nontoken creature you control dies, you may create a 0/1 colorless Eldrazi Spawn creature token. It has "Sacrifice this creature: Add C."", three "Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies, put a +1/+1 counter on Yahenni, Undying Partisan.", one "Whenever another nontoken creature dies, you may draw a card.", and one "Whenever a creature dies, scry 1."
Thanks a ton for walking me through this.. That helps alot.
Wouldn't I get 6 "whenever a creature dies Scry 1" triggers instead of just 1 like you said above as Shadows of the past say whenever a creature dies it does not say whenever a NON token creature dies??
Thanks for the clarification
Also, Zulaport Cutthroat would only have three triggers from the first wave of death.