Right. You get control, and only then does it lose its abilities. It triggers the moment the control-change happens. The trigger goes on the stack after the Dragon's ETB is done, and... the Dragon's new shiny is about to explode.
When a player other than Bronze Bombshell's owner controls it, it doesn't have the ability that triggers from this state.
While the verbs on Opportunistic Dragon are written as though they are occurrences, in Magic, change of control, and loss of abilities, are effects that exist statically. There is an effect that is making Bronze Bombshell controlled by you, and an effect that is ridding Bronze Bombshell of its abilities, and they are created during the resolution of the Dragon's ability. Since the multiple effects (including the combat restrictions) are conjoined with 'and', these are simultaneous. Struck in light of corrections made below.
Assuming they actually are simultaneous, then it is true Bombshell's 7 damage ability will not trigger, since it ceases to exist at the same time it changes control.
I am however puzzled by Horseshoe_Hermit's explaination: actions being separated by 'and' has never, as far as I know, meant simultaneity. I believe you need to back this claim with some rule or ruling. Au contraire, the fact that multiple verbs are used (gain control / loses abilities / can't attack) is usually a sign of separate -thus sequential- events, in which case rule 603.2 would apply: Bombshell would trigger.
603.2. Whenever a game event or game state matches a triggered ability’s trigger event, that ability automatically triggers. The ability doesn’t do anything at this point.
When a player other than Bronze Bombshell's owner controls it, it doesn't have the ability that triggers from this state.
While the verbs on Opportunistic Dragon are written as though they are occurrences, in Magic, change of control, and loss of abilities, are effects that exist statically. There is an effect that is making Bronze Bombshell controlled by you, and an effect that is ridding Bronze Bombshell of its abilities, and they are created during the resolution of the Dragon's ability. Since the multiple effects (including the combat restrictions) are conjoined with 'and', these are simultaneous.
Sorry, but this is totally wrong.
608.2c. The controller of the spell or ability follows its instructions in the order written. However, replacement effects may modify these actions. In some cases, later text on the card may modify the meaning of earlier text (for example, "Destroy target creature. It can't be regenerated" or "Counter target spell. If that spell is countered this way, put it on top of its owner's library instead of into its owner's graveyard.") Don't just apply effects step by step without thinking in these cases--read the whole text and apply the rules of English to the text.
You gain control of the Bombshell (triggering it), THEN it loses abilities. So the Dragon's new toy is about to explode.
When a player other than Bronze Bombshell's owner controls it, it doesn't have the ability that triggers from this state.
While the verbs on Opportunistic Dragon are written as though they are occurrences, in Magic, change of control, and loss of abilities, are effects that exist statically. There is an effect that is making Bronze Bombshell controlled by you, and an effect that is ridding Bronze Bombshell of its abilities, and they are created during the resolution of the Dragon's ability. Since the multiple effects (including the combat restrictions) are conjoined with 'and', these are simultaneous.
I am however puzzled by Horseshoe_Hermit's explaination: actions being separated by 'and' has never, as far as I know, meant simultaneity. I believe you need to back this claim with some rule or ruling.
This appears to be a misunderstanding of applying the difference between cards that destroy all Blank and Blank vs cards that destroy all blank, destroy all blank such as the difference between Akroma's Vengeance and Austere Command. The actual difference here isn't the use of "AND" but the use of the word "destroy" multiple times. Every instance of a verb is a separate action.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
If they were actual discreet actions, wouldn't a new sentence or line of text signify that? This is joined with commas
In general, as far as the game is concerned, it's not the word "then" or "and" or the use of separate sentences or clauses that indicates sequential actions, but the use of two action verbs. See also this thread.
However, the last sentence of Opportunistic Dragon's triggered ability presents a particular difficulty not found in most other cases: it expresses three continuous effects that are bundled up by a single duration mentioned only once ("For as long as Opportunistic Dragon remains on the battlefield"), and moreover, two of the effects look like actions but they're not ("gain control of that permanent" and "it loses all abilities") (see also C.R. 611.1 and this thread). That sentence would have been clearer if it said, for example, "For as long as Opportunistic Dragon remains on the battlefield, you control that permanent, it has no abilities, and it can't attack or block" (see also Charisma's text as printed in Mercadian Masques). Here, the first two continuous effects are reworded to express states, not putative actions, so that all three continuous effects are clearly seen to begin simultaneously.
If they were actual discreet actions, wouldn't a new sentence or line of text signify that? This is joined with commas
No, a common example of a card with effects that are well known to occur one after the other and appear all on one line is Death Cloud. Less well known but runs into problems because of its order is Decimate. Decimate is bad at taking out Totem Armored creatures because its destroy enchantment is after the destroy creature unlike Austere Command.
You're totally right. The rulings about verb words are about figuring out how many events there are. The overall fact that things in language are written in an order was never countermanded.
1. Everything happens in the order written, unless
2. It is the (syntactic) objects of an action that are listed under one word, where for certain action words this counts as just one of a sort of event that can only be written of such words, UNLESS
3. Those listed terms are conjoined with a marker of sequence, such as 'then', where those receive the action with the indicated sequence
To witness an ability create continuous effects, or even one-shot effects, at the same time, when they are different kinds of things, the only word that has done the job in the past is the word "simultaneously", seen on Goblin Welder, Sands of Time, and wackier cards.
And the example of such action words is 'deal'. An event can be "[source] deals damage [without reference to anything damaged]", which occurs just once if an instruction makes source deal damage to some objects with just one verb, IF those recipients took the damage simultaneously. Because of Decimate, it looks like this case only exists for the word 'deal'. Only with dealing damage do you have events that look for "[source] [does a thing] [which is in every instance upon a recipient, but this event doesn't ask about that]", so you can even care about determining if doing a thing to multiple stuffs counts as doing one thing or doing several. As soon as they make a card that triggers from "an effect destroys," or "a player creates," or "an effect places one or more counters," this wouldnt be a singular thing.
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Does Bronze Bombshell trigger?
I guess yes, since gaining control is one event, losing all abilities is another event.
While the verbs on Opportunistic Dragon are written as though they are occurrences, in Magic, change of control, and loss of abilities, are effects that exist statically. There is an effect that is making Bronze Bombshell controlled by you, and an effect that is ridding Bronze Bombshell of its abilities, and they are created during the resolution of the Dragon's ability.
Since the multiple effects (including the combat restrictions) are conjoined with 'and', these are simultaneous.Struck in light of corrections made below.Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
I am however puzzled by Horseshoe_Hermit's explaination: actions being separated by 'and' has never, as far as I know, meant simultaneity. I believe you need to back this claim with some rule or ruling.
Au contraire, the fact that multiple verbs are used (gain control / loses abilities / can't attack) is usually a sign of separate -thus sequential- events, in which case rule 603.2 would apply: Bombshell would trigger.
RULES OF MAGIC :
http://magic.wizards.com/en/game-info/gameplay/rules-and-formats/rules
Sorry, but this is totally wrong.
608.2c. The controller of the spell or ability follows its instructions in the order written. However, replacement effects may modify these actions. In some cases, later text on the card may modify the meaning of earlier text (for example, "Destroy target creature. It can't be regenerated" or "Counter target spell. If that spell is countered this way, put it on top of its owner's library instead of into its owner's graveyard.") Don't just apply effects step by step without thinking in these cases--read the whole text and apply the rules of English to the text.
You gain control of the Bombshell (triggering it), THEN it loses abilities. So the Dragon's new toy is about to explode.
However, the last sentence of Opportunistic Dragon's triggered ability presents a particular difficulty not found in most other cases: it expresses three continuous effects that are bundled up by a single duration mentioned only once ("For as long as Opportunistic Dragon remains on the battlefield"), and moreover, two of the effects look like actions but they're not ("gain control of that permanent" and "it loses all abilities") (see also C.R. 611.1 and this thread). That sentence would have been clearer if it said, for example, "For as long as Opportunistic Dragon remains on the battlefield, you control that permanent, it has no abilities, and it can't attack or block" (see also Charisma's text as printed in Mercadian Masques). Here, the first two continuous effects are reworded to express states, not putative actions, so that all three continuous effects are clearly seen to begin simultaneously.
1. Everything happens in the order written, unless
2. It is the (syntactic) objects of an action that are listed under one word, where for certain action words this counts as just one of a sort of event that can only be written of such words, UNLESS
3. Those listed terms are conjoined with a marker of sequence, such as 'then', where those receive the action with the indicated sequence
To witness an ability create continuous effects, or even one-shot effects, at the same time, when they are different kinds of things, the only word that has done the job in the past is the word "simultaneously", seen on Goblin Welder, Sands of Time, and wackier cards.
And the example of such action words is 'deal'. An event can be "[source] deals damage [without reference to anything damaged]", which occurs just once if an instruction makes source deal damage to some objects with just one verb, IF those recipients took the damage simultaneously. Because of Decimate, it looks like this case only exists for the word 'deal'. Only with dealing damage do you have events that look for "[source] [does a thing] [which is in every instance upon a recipient, but this event doesn't ask about that]", so you can even care about determining if doing a thing to multiple stuffs counts as doing one thing or doing several. As soon as they make a card that triggers from "an effect destroys," or "a player creates," or "an effect places one or more counters," this wouldnt be a singular thing.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].