I was curious, this would be entirely for casual play. Could you take a card like Vengeful Archon, if you had the mana to prevent it. After aetherflux resolves to prevent said damage with archon. Could you prevent the 50 life you would lose due to aetherflux reservoir effect. Since it just says damage, not specifying combat, card effect. Just blanket damage and still reap the benefits of said cards effect of having two nukes on your side of the feild unless counterspelled or fogged?
I know it would require a lot of set up and prep time. Being that it would be a make or break win condition if any aspect of this win condition was counterspelled. So its a high risk, very high reward move if you do it.
Though I'm just curious, would this be a viable move in casual play/ casual tournament (like card shop tournamemt) play?
"Here's my plan to become commander, players seem to respect violence. Well... I'm pretty violent... And I have these nice abilities." - A modified version of the kell hunters cloak from destiny one.
Aetherflux Reservoir's second ability has two parts: a cost and an effect (C.R. 602.1). The cost is "everything before the colon" (C.R. 602.1a), and the text after the colon includes the effect (C.R. 602.1a). The cost says "Pay 50 life", and the effect is "Aetherflux Reservoir deals 50 damage to any target" (C.R. 108.1). But paying life and dealing damage to a player are two separate things (C.R. 119.4, 120.3).
Effects that prevent damage (such as found in Vengeful Archon) don't affect payments of life or effects that have a player lose life (C.R. 119.4; under C.R. 120.3, damage to a player usually causes loss of life, but not always; see also this thread). Thus, by paying 50 life to activate Aetherflux Reservoir's last ability, you will lose 50 life regardless of any effects that would prevent damage that would be dealt to you (C.R. 118.4).
However, the effect of Aetherflux Reservoir's ability (as opposed to its cost) does cause damage (but again, not necessarily in the form of loss of life [C.R. 120.3]). Thus, if you activate Vengeful Archon's ability (choosing 50 for X) in response to that ability (assuming the latter ability targets you), the former ability will set up an effect preventing 50 damage to you, so that when the latter ability resolves, the 50 damage is prevented and Vengeful Archon deals 50 damage to the target you chose for Vengeful Archon's ability.
EDIT: Minor edit after comment 5 was posted.
EDIT: Edited after comment 6 was posted.
EDIT (Nov. 22): Edited, including because some rules were renumbered with Core Set 2020.
Ah thank you, I figured that would be the case. Though I thought to ask just in case. As soon as anyone realized what was going on. The player of this set up would be public enemy #1 and dealt with swiftly if this was a legal move. I'm kind of glad tbh, as I play with a lot of sweaty players in the mtg tournaments in my local card shop. So if I came up with this veritable double whammy just now. I'm sure someone else has probably thought of it as well. So it means it couldn't be used against me in said case. Legally anyway, thank you for your fast response.
Edit: I have read up on your edit, and to keep things simple in a non-competitive game. I'm going to self impose a rule of it technically only counts as far as combat/ card effect/ etc... Damage, for the sake of keeping things simple. As the people I play with are more well versed on the rules than I am, but I feel this would cause a headache even for them even with the explanation given. As the health lost in this case comes from an outside source to the usual means.
"Here's my plan to become commander, players seem to respect violence. Well... I'm pretty violent... And I have these nice abilities." - A modified version of the kell hunters cloak from destiny one.
Ah thank you, I figured that would be the case. Though I thought to ask just in case. As soon as anyone realized what was going on. The player of this set up would be public enemy #1 and dealt with swiftly if this was a legal move. I'm kind of glad tbh, as I play with a lot of sweaty players in the mtg tournaments in my local card shop. So if I came up with this veritable double whammy just now. I'm sure someone else has probably thought of it as well. So it means it couldn't be used against me in said case. Legally anyway, thank you for your fast response.
Edit: I have read up on your edit, and to keep things simple in a non-competitive game. I'm going to self impose a rule of it technically only counts as far as combat/ card effect/ etc... Damage, for the sake of keeping things simple. As the people I play with are more well versed on the rules than I am, but I feel this would cause a headache even for them even with the explanation given. As the health lost in this case comes from an outside source to the usual means.
It isn't too complicated. The thing to keep in mind is that the archon specifically states damage. So that means either the combat damage step or when a card specifically states it deals damage. If it isn't either of thoe it isn't dealing damage and the archon won't care about the loss of life.
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Ah maybe it was my sleep addled brain last night that made it seem overly complicated. Though so if a card said something along the lines of "prevent loss of life." It would work? Essentially, Unlike Platinum Emperion which pretty much fogs loss of life or pay life effects. Which kind of defeats the point of trying to set up this wombo combo. Though try as I might I cannot find anything that could possibly work like this.
"Here's my plan to become commander, players seem to respect violence. Well... I'm pretty violent... And I have these nice abilities." - A modified version of the kell hunters cloak from destiny one.
"Prevent", in magic, is a technical term and can only be applied to damage.
615.1. Some continuous effects are prevention effects. Like replacement effects (see rule 614), prevention effects apply continuously as events happen--they aren't locked in ahead of time. Such effects watch for a damage event that would happen and completely or partially prevent the damage that would be dealt. They act like "shields" around whatever they're affecting.
As far as I know, there is no card that enables what you want to do. If you control [[Platinum Emperion]], you can't pay life at all (and damage or other effects can't reduce your life total). If you control [[Phyrexian Unlife]], you don't lose due to losing life (you continue playing with 0 or negative life), but you still can't pay 50 life unless you have at least 50 life.
118.4. If a cost or effect allows a player to pay an amount of life greater than 0, the player may do so only if their life total is greater than or equal to the amount of the payment. If a player pays life, the payment is subtracted from their life total; in other words, the player loses that much life. (Players can always pay 0 life.)
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I know it would require a lot of set up and prep time. Being that it would be a make or break win condition if any aspect of this win condition was counterspelled. So its a high risk, very high reward move if you do it.
Though I'm just curious, would this be a viable move in casual play/ casual tournament (like card shop tournamemt) play?
Effects that prevent damage (such as found in Vengeful Archon) don't affect payments of life or effects that have a player lose life (C.R. 119.4; under C.R. 120.3, damage to a player usually causes loss of life, but not always; see also this thread). Thus, by paying 50 life to activate Aetherflux Reservoir's last ability, you will lose 50 life regardless of any effects that would prevent damage that would be dealt to you (C.R. 118.4).
However, the effect of Aetherflux Reservoir's ability (as opposed to its cost) does cause damage (but again, not necessarily in the form of loss of life [C.R. 120.3]). Thus, if you activate Vengeful Archon's ability (choosing 50 for X) in response to that ability (assuming the latter ability targets you), the former ability will set up an effect preventing 50 damage to you, so that when the latter ability resolves, the 50 damage is prevented and Vengeful Archon deals 50 damage to the target you chose for Vengeful Archon's ability.
EDIT: Minor edit after comment 5 was posted.
EDIT: Edited after comment 6 was posted.
EDIT (Nov. 22): Edited, including because some rules were renumbered with Core Set 2020.
Edit: I have read up on your edit, and to keep things simple in a non-competitive game. I'm going to self impose a rule of it technically only counts as far as combat/ card effect/ etc... Damage, for the sake of keeping things simple. As the people I play with are more well versed on the rules than I am, but I feel this would cause a headache even for them even with the explanation given. As the health lost in this case comes from an outside source to the usual means.
It isn't too complicated. The thing to keep in mind is that the archon specifically states damage. So that means either the combat damage step or when a card specifically states it deals damage. If it isn't either of thoe it isn't dealing damage and the archon won't care about the loss of life.
Did I write something useful? Leave a like.
Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
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As far as I know, there is no card that enables what you want to do. If you control [[Platinum Emperion]], you can't pay life at all (and damage or other effects can't reduce your life total). If you control [[Phyrexian Unlife]], you don't lose due to losing life (you continue playing with 0 or negative life), but you still can't pay 50 life unless you have at least 50 life.