In a previous thread it was explained to me that if sacrificing a creature was part of the cost of a spell or ability, this was state-based and your opponent would not be able to respond by killing the creature as he wouldn't receive priority in time to do so. What's the rule to determine if sacrificing a creature is part of the cost of the spell or ability? If there is a ":" after the text, I assume that's a cost. But what about something like Recurring Nightmare? Is sacrificing a creature considered part of the cost of the ability?
ALSO, could someone perhaps give a brief summary of when having a valid target for a spell/ability IS important. Is it basically all other cases (i.e. when the action being performed is NOT part of the cost of the spell or ability)? I believe the presence of the word "target" in the text is also relevant. For example if the text was "sacrifice target creature" the chosen target would have to be on the battlefield when the spell/ability resolved (assuming it wasn't part of the cost) whereas if the text was "sacrifice a creature" then the target would only be chosen later?
Okay, for your first question. Anything that is part of "As and additional cost to cast/activate this" as found on cards such as Fling, those are obviously costs and are paid when you announce the spell so they can't be interrupted. For abilities everything that appears before the ":" is the cost, so for Recurring Nightmare, "Sacrifice a creature, Return Recurring Nightmare to its owner's hand" is all part of the cost.
For your second part. Whenever a spell or ability uses the word target or has the word target buried in a keyword like with Auras the target being legal is essential. If a spell that targets has all of its targets illegal when it tries to resolve it will "fizzle", however if only some of its targets are illegal it will perform as much of its effect as it can effecting only the legal targets. Say you use Ancient Animus to target your legendary creature and an opponents creature. If they make their creature hexproof then you will still get the +1/+1 counter on your legend but you won't fight because the target is illegal. If an effect doesn't target but obviously effects something specific then you choose what it effects when it resolves, the entering part of Breaking // Entering doesn't use the word target so you will choose what creature you return when it resolves and no one will know what creature you choose until its already entering the battlefield.
Also note, that if the spell/ability requires targets as well as a sacrifice as a cost, if you cannot choose all required legal targets at the time of activation/casting, you cannot activate the ability/cast the spell and thus cannot sacrifice for it.
So with Recurring Nightmare, since bouncing it is part of it’s activation, opponents can’t Disenchant it in response to paying that activation cost. Correct?
So with Recurring Nightmare, since bouncing it is part of it’s activation, opponents can’t Disenchant it in response to paying that activation cost. Correct?
Correct.
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If I sacrifice a creature to Altar of Dementia or Ashnod's Altar, since the sacrifice is part of the cost (i.e. before a ":") my opponent CANNOT destroy the creature I tried to sacrifice in order to prevent the benefit of the sacrifice, is that also true?
In general, while you're activating an ability (such as that of Altar of Dementia or Ashnod's Altar), no player has priority, so no other player can cast spells or activate abilities (including those that would keep you from paying the spell or ability's costs) (C.R. 601.2a-i and 602.2a-b have no priority window until the spell is cast or ability activated; C.R. 116.1a-b). See also this thread and this thread.
It follows that if you sacrifice a creature as you pay the cost of a spell or ability, that creature will leave the battlefield before any player gets priority again (C.R. 701.16a). See also this thread and this thread.
I find it intriguing that if my opponent has Ashnod's Altar in play and I destroy one of his creatures, he can respond by sacrificing the creature to Ashnod's Altar and the sacrifice goes through while at the same time, if my opponent first sacrifices his creature to Ashnod's Altar and I respond by destroying the creature (or altar) the sacrifice also goes through. Barring cards such as Stifle, there's no way to prevent the sacrifice. Something like Rod of Ruin, I get because the damage is on the stack independent of the source, so destroying the artifact doesn't change anything. I guess Ashnod's Altar works the same way.
I also find it intriguing that after the cost a spell is paid, an opponent can respond before the spell resolves, potentially interfering with the spell while with abilities there is no such opportunity, at least not when the ability includes a ":" anyway. Does this also mean that if I tap Mother of Runes to give it protection from black that an opponent CAN'T respond by casting Terror to kill it?
I also find it intriguing that after the cost a spell is paid, an opponent can respond before the spell resolves, potentially interfering with the spell while with abilities there is no such opportunity, at least not when the ability includes a ":" anyway. Does this also mean that if I tap Mother of Runes to give it protection from black that an opponent CAN'T respond by casting Terror to kill it?
A player can cast instant spells (such as Terror), or activate abilities, in response to Mother of Runes's ability as they can to any other activated ability on the stack (C.R. 117.7, 117.1a-b). Like any other activated ability, Mother of Runes's ability has no effect unless and until it resolves (C.R. 608.2c, 609.1). However, once Mother of Runes's ability resolves and gives Mother of Runes protection from black (if that color is chosen), Mother of Runes can no longer be the target of black spells (such as Terror) while Mother of Runes has protection from black (C.R. 702.16b). See also this thread.
On the other hand, some activated abilities are mana abilities (they produce mana, among other requirements) (C.R. 605.1a; see also this thread). Activated mana abilities don't go on the stack, so they can't be responded to (C.R. 605.3b).
EDIT (Aug. 24, 2021): Some rules were renumbered in the meantime.
In the case of Ashnod's Altar, if you pay the cost (sacrifice the creature), no player can interrupt paying the cost, I get that (no player receives priority while you're in the midst of paying a cost), but do you receive the 2 colorless mana immediately (i.e. is this treated like a mana ability) or does that "benefit" go on the stack the same way Mother's of Runes ability goes on the stack when she taps?
In the case of Ashnod's Altar, if you pay the cost (sacrifice the creature), no player can interrupt paying the cost, I get that (no player receives priority while you're in the midst of paying a cost), but do you receive the 2 colorless mana immediately (i.e. is this treated like a mana ability) or does that "benefit" go on the stack the same way Mother's of Runes ability goes on the stack when she taps?
Because Ashnod's Altar's ability is a mana ability, it doesn't go on the stack at all, so it can't be responded to at all (C.R. 605.3b, 605.1a). Once that ability is activated, it resolves immediately (C.R. 405.6c). Compare that ability with those of Altar of Dementia and Mother of Runes, which are not mana abilities since they don't produce mana (C.R. 605.1a), so they go on the stack and can be "responded to" (C.R. 603.2, 117.7).
EDIT (Aug. 24, 2021): One rule was renumbered in the meantime.
Ashnod's Altar has a genuine mana ability, so activating it means, that after the cost has been paid, it resolves immediately, it can't be responded to.
Ah yes, of course, that's why the abilities on the two cards works differently. It's even written on my fifth edition Ashnod's Altar card "Play this ability as a mana source." Duh!
Can a recurring Nightmare sacrificing a creature be stopped cold if a player sacrificed Felidar Cub to destroy the recurring Nightmare both are using a sacrifice creature ..In a stack if you use the Felidar cub to counter the recurring Nightmare wouldn't the Felidar cub sacrifice go off 1st destroying the recurring Nightmare and if so the creature recurring Nightmare was sacrificing stay in play
No. When activating an ability such as with Recurring Nightmare all costs must be paid in full before the ability is considered activated and sacrificing a creature and returning the card to hand is the cost. The nightmare won't be on the field to be targetted if the controller activated its ability.
In general, while you're activating an ability (such as that of Altar of Dementia or Ashnod's Altar), no player has priority, so no other player can cast spells or activate abilities (including those that would keep you from paying the spell or ability's costs)[.]
This applies to Recurring Nightmare's ability and any other activated ability whose cost involves—
ALSO, could someone perhaps give a brief summary of when having a valid target for a spell/ability IS important. Is it basically all other cases (i.e. when the action being performed is NOT part of the cost of the spell or ability)? I believe the presence of the word "target" in the text is also relevant. For example if the text was "sacrifice target creature" the chosen target would have to be on the battlefield when the spell/ability resolved (assuming it wasn't part of the cost) whereas if the text was "sacrifice a creature" then the target would only be chosen later?
For your second part. Whenever a spell or ability uses the word target or has the word target buried in a keyword like with Auras the target being legal is essential. If a spell that targets has all of its targets illegal when it tries to resolve it will "fizzle", however if only some of its targets are illegal it will perform as much of its effect as it can effecting only the legal targets. Say you use Ancient Animus to target your legendary creature and an opponents creature. If they make their creature hexproof then you will still get the +1/+1 counter on your legend but you won't fight because the target is illegal. If an effect doesn't target but obviously effects something specific then you choose what it effects when it resolves, the entering part of Breaking // Entering doesn't use the word target so you will choose what creature you return when it resolves and no one will know what creature you choose until its already entering the battlefield.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
It follows that if you sacrifice a creature as you pay the cost of a spell or ability, that creature will leave the battlefield before any player gets priority again (C.R. 701.16a). See also this thread and this thread.
I also find it intriguing that after the cost a spell is paid, an opponent can respond before the spell resolves, potentially interfering with the spell while with abilities there is no such opportunity, at least not when the ability includes a ":" anyway. Does this also mean that if I tap Mother of Runes to give it protection from black that an opponent CAN'T respond by casting Terror to kill it?
On the other hand, some activated abilities are mana abilities (they produce mana, among other requirements) (C.R. 605.1a; see also this thread). Activated mana abilities don't go on the stack, so they can't be responded to (C.R. 605.3b).
EDIT (Aug. 24, 2021): Some rules were renumbered in the meantime.
EDIT (Aug. 24, 2021): One rule was renumbered in the meantime.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
This applies to Recurring Nightmare's ability and any other activated ability whose cost involves—