My doubt is about Livewire Lash and the position on the stack of the ability it grants to the equipped creature when the opponent counters the spell that target this same equipped creature.
Let's say I have a Glistener Elf equipped with Livewire Lash. Once the elf is equipped, it has the ability "Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell, this creature deals 2 damage to any target".
If you look for some information on Livewire Lash page on Gatherer, you'll find this: When the equipped creature becomes the target of a spell, the ability granted to it by Livewire Lash will trigger and go on the stack on top of it. It will resolve before the spell does. This said, it's important to notice that the new ability of my creature triggers when the target is defined, not when the spell that targets my creature resolves.
So, in the example, I played a Blossoming Defense targeting my equipped Glistener Elf. In response to Blossoming Defense, my opponent plays a Counterspell targeting it. My doubts are: (1) considering the information we obtained on Gatherer, what will be the position of the spells on the stack? (2) Even if Counterspell counters my Blossoming Defense will the ability of my creature granted by Livewire Lash trigger?
I may be wrong, but to me looks like the position on the stack will be: [1 - bottom] Blossoming Defense; [2] Counterspell; [3 - top] the ability of my creature granted by Livewire Lash. I cast Blossoming defense, that will be put on the stack first. The opponent responds with a counter.. but even before Blossoming Defense's resolution is decided, when its target is chosen, the ability triggers, going to the stack on top of all. The Counterspell, once it responds Blossoming Defense (and not the ability) is just on top of Blossoming Defense and below the ability. If this is right, the ability triggers even if my opponent responds to my spell that targets my own creature.. and this would be awesome!!
Thanks a lot for your patience and time. I appreciate your help, my friends
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This is incorrect. When you cast Blossoming Defense your Glistener Elf will immediately trigger before anyone can do anything leaveing the stack to be:
Blossoming Defense<--Livewire Lash trigger
Your opponent can then decide to cast Counterspell but the ability will still have triggered and will not be effected by the source being countered.
Yes. The trigger condition (Glistener Elf was targeted by a spell or ability) was met long before your opponent even had the choice to counter your spell. The Livewire Lash ability does not care if the spell/ability that triggers it resolves. You'll still get to deal your 2 damage.
Now I see I was wrong... although the consequence is the same.
So, if I understood well, in my example, Countespell will be on top of all, but targeting Blossoming Defense. That's why even if the Counterspell resolves first (because it's on top) it will not affect the ability that's already triggered and just below on the line of resolution. Counterspell resolves, countering Blossoming Defense, and then the ability resolves (allowing the Elf to deal 2 damage)... and, after all, Blossoming Defense won't resolve because it was countered before.
Oh, man, these are great news! Thanks for the amazing help, guys!
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My friends, one more doubt about a similar (but different) situation...
If the situation was: I played a Mutagenic Growth targeting my Glistener Elf equipped with the same Livewire Lash and, in response to Mutagenic Growth, my opponent plays a Path to Exile targeting the equipped creature... what would be the result? Once I do not respond the Path, my equipped creature will be exiled... but will the ability trigger one time or two times? Would the creature deal 2 (or four) damage to target creature/player because of the ability granted by Livewire Lash? What would be the positions on the stack? I'm kinda confused about this situation
My friends, one more doubt about a similar (but different) situation...
If the situation was: I played a Mutagenic Growth targeting my Glistener Elf equipped with the same Livewire Lash and, in response to Mutagenic Growth, my opponent plays a Path to Exile targeting the equipped creature... what would be the result? Once I do not respond the Path, my equipped creature will be exiled... but will the ability trigger one time or two times? Would the creature deal 2 (or four) damage to target creature/player because of the ability granted by Livewire Lash? What would be the positions on the stack? I'm kinda confused about this situation
Hope you guys can help with this other doubt.
Here is how this situation can play out:
Assume Livewire Lash is attached to Glistener Elf and this is a two-player game.
You cast Mutagenic Growth targeting Glistener Elf (C.R. 116.1a). (It goes on the stack [C.R. 601.2a].)
This makes the ability granted to Glistener Elf by Livewire Lash trigger; that ability now goes on the stack (C.R. 603.2, 603.3, 601.2i) and a target is chosen for that ability (C.R. 603.3d, 601.2c).
You pass (C.R. 116.3d).
Your opponent casts Path to Exile targeting Glistener Elf (C.R. 116.1a). (It goes on the stack [C.R. 601.2a].)
This again makes the Glistener Elf ability trigger; that ability now goes on the stack (C.R. 603.2, 603.3, 601.2i) and a target is chosen for that ability (C.R. 603.3d, 601.2c). The target can be the same or different from the target chosen for the previous Glistener Elf ability.
All players pass, then the second Glistener Elf ability resolves (C.R. 116.4). Glistener Elf deals 2 damage to the target chosen for that ability (C.R. 608.2c). Then that ability leaves the stack (C.R. 608.2k).
All players pass, then Path to Exile resolves (C.R. 116.4). Glistener Elf is exiled, among other things. Then Path to Exile goes to the graveyard (C.R. 608.2k).
All players pass, then the first Glistener Elf ability resolves (C.R. 116.4). If the target chosen for that ability is legal, Glistener Elf deals 2 damage to that target (C.R. 112.7a, 608.2b-c, 608.2g). Then that ability leaves the stack (C.R. 608.2k).
All players pass, then Mutagenic Growth would resolve (C.R. 116.4). It doesn't resolve because its only target is illegal (C.R. 608.2b). Then Mutagenic Growth goes to the graveyard (C.R. 608.2k).
My friends, one more doubt about a similar (but different) situation...
If the situation was: I played a Mutagenic Growth targeting my Glistener Elf equipped with the same Livewire Lash and, in response to Mutagenic Growth, my opponent plays a Path to Exile targeting the equipped creature... what would be the result? Once I do not respond the Path, my equipped creature will be exiled... but will the ability trigger one time or two times? Would the creature deal 2 (or four) damage to target creature/player because of the ability granted by Livewire Lash? What would be the positions on the stack? I'm kinda confused about this situation
Hope you guys can help with this other doubt.
Here is how this situation can play out:
Assume Livewire Lash is attached to Glistener Elf and this is a two-player game.
You cast Mutagenic Growth targeting Glistener Elf (C.R. 116.1a). (It goes on the stack [C.R. 601.2a].)
This makes ability granted to Glistener Elf by Livewire Lash triggers; that ability now goes on the stack (C.R. 603.2, 603.3, 601.2i) and a target is chosen for that ability (C.R. 603.3d, 601.2c).
You pass (C.R. 116.3d).
Your opponent casts Path to Exile targeting Glistener Elf (C.R. 116.1a).
All players pass, then Path to Exile resolves (C.R. 116.4). Glistener Elf is exiled, among other things. Then Path to Exile goes to the graveyard (C.R. 608.2k).
All players pass, then the Glistener Elf ability resolves (C.R. 116.4). Glistener Elf deals 2 damage to the chosen target (C.R. 112.7a, 608.2c, 608.2g). Then that ability leaves the stack (C.R. 608.2k).
All players pass, then Mutagenic Growth would resolve (C.R. 116.4). It doesn't resolve because its only target is illegal (C.R. 608.2b). Then Mutagenic Growth goes to the graveyard (C.R. 608.2k).
Thanks a lot for this! I’m still confused about one detail... The resolution of Mutagenic Growth isn’t necessary for the ability granted by Livewire Lash to trigger. The ability triggers when the creature equipped is chosen as a target of a spell and it goes to the stack on top of this spell. Growth won’t resolve, but the target was already chosen and the ability went to the stack above Growth. Path resolved and the target was chosen too.
I can’t see why the ability didn’t trigger and resolved twice in this case.
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| UBRG D. Shadow | WUBRG Humans | BRG Dredge | UG Infect |
Thanks a lot for this! I’m still confused about one detail... The resolution of Mutagenic Growth isn’t necessary for the ability granted by Livewire Lash to trigger. The ability triggers when the creature equipped is chosen as a target of a spell and it goes to the stack on top of this spell. Growth won’t resolve, but the target was already chosen and the ability went to the stack above Growth. Path resolved and the target was chosen too.
I can’t see why the ability didn’t trigger and resolved twice in this case.
That is a detail I missed. I will edit my comment 6 accordingly.
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My doubt is about Livewire Lash and the position on the stack of the ability it grants to the equipped creature when the opponent counters the spell that target this same equipped creature.
Let's say I have a Glistener Elf equipped with Livewire Lash. Once the elf is equipped, it has the ability "Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell, this creature deals 2 damage to any target".
If you look for some information on Livewire Lash page on Gatherer, you'll find this: When the equipped creature becomes the target of a spell, the ability granted to it by Livewire Lash will trigger and go on the stack on top of it. It will resolve before the spell does. This said, it's important to notice that the new ability of my creature triggers when the target is defined, not when the spell that targets my creature resolves.
So, in the example, I played a Blossoming Defense targeting my equipped Glistener Elf. In response to Blossoming Defense, my opponent plays a Counterspell targeting it. My doubts are: (1) considering the information we obtained on Gatherer, what will be the position of the spells on the stack? (2) Even if Counterspell counters my Blossoming Defense will the ability of my creature granted by Livewire Lash trigger?
I may be wrong, but to me looks like the position on the stack will be: [1 - bottom] Blossoming Defense; [2] Counterspell; [3 - top] the ability of my creature granted by Livewire Lash. I cast Blossoming defense, that will be put on the stack first. The opponent responds with a counter.. but even before Blossoming Defense's resolution is decided, when its target is chosen, the ability triggers, going to the stack on top of all. The Counterspell, once it responds Blossoming Defense (and not the ability) is just on top of Blossoming Defense and below the ability. If this is right, the ability triggers even if my opponent responds to my spell that targets my own creature.. and this would be awesome!!
Thanks a lot for your patience and time. I appreciate your help, my friends
| UBRG D. Shadow | WUBRG Humans | BRG Dredge | UG Infect |
Blossoming Defense<--Livewire Lash trigger
Your opponent can then decide to cast Counterspell but the ability will still have triggered and will not be effected by the source being countered.
TOP
Counterspell (targeting Blossoming Defense)
Triggered ability of Glistener elf granted by Livewire Lash (targeting something)
Blossoming Defense (targeting Glistener Elf)
BOTTOM
Alternatively, your opponent could allow the Livewire Lash ability to resolve, and then respond to the Blossoming Defense, making the stack look like:
TOP
Counterspell (targeting Blossoming Defense)
Blossoming Defense (targeting Glistener Elf)
BOTTOM
(This being after the triggered ability has already resolved)
Yes. The trigger condition (Glistener Elf was targeted by a spell or ability) was met long before your opponent even had the choice to counter your spell. The Livewire Lash ability does not care if the spell/ability that triggers it resolves. You'll still get to deal your 2 damage.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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So, if I understood well, in my example, Countespell will be on top of all, but targeting Blossoming Defense. That's why even if the Counterspell resolves first (because it's on top) it will not affect the ability that's already triggered and just below on the line of resolution. Counterspell resolves, countering Blossoming Defense, and then the ability resolves (allowing the Elf to deal 2 damage)... and, after all, Blossoming Defense won't resolve because it was countered before.
Oh, man, these are great news! Thanks for the amazing help, guys!
| UBRG D. Shadow | WUBRG Humans | BRG Dredge | UG Infect |
If the situation was: I played a Mutagenic Growth targeting my Glistener Elf equipped with the same Livewire Lash and, in response to Mutagenic Growth, my opponent plays a Path to Exile targeting the equipped creature... what would be the result? Once I do not respond the Path, my equipped creature will be exiled... but will the ability trigger one time or two times? Would the creature deal 2 (or four) damage to target creature/player because of the ability granted by Livewire Lash? What would be the positions on the stack? I'm kinda confused about this situation
Hope you guys can help with this other doubt.
| UBRG D. Shadow | WUBRG Humans | BRG Dredge | UG Infect |
EDIT: Correction after comment 8 was posted.
Thanks a lot for this! I’m still confused about one detail... The resolution of Mutagenic Growth isn’t necessary for the ability granted by Livewire Lash to trigger. The ability triggers when the creature equipped is chosen as a target of a spell and it goes to the stack on top of this spell. Growth won’t resolve, but the target was already chosen and the ability went to the stack above Growth. Path resolved and the target was chosen too.
I can’t see why the ability didn’t trigger and resolved twice in this case.
| UBRG D. Shadow | WUBRG Humans | BRG Dredge | UG Infect |