1. When my opponent sacrifices a permanent to it's annihilator.. do the cards touch the yard or do the sacced cards automatically go to my side without touching the yard?
2. If there is a Rest in peace in play. Opponent sacrifice two llanowar elves to it that betrays annihilator. Do the elves go to my side, or are they exiled by rest in peace?
3. If opponent sacrifice a kitchen finks to it that betrays annihilator. Do I get a finks with a -1/-1 counter already on it?
1) It's a trigger, and thus doesn't do anything until it resolves. Sacrificing something puts that something into the graveyard immediately, and it will stay there until the resolving trigger pulls it out again. If it's still there.
2) Both. Rest in Peace creates a replacement effect, so the cards never go to the graveyard but directly to exile instead. But It that Betrays doesn't care where the card goes, it will grab it out of the first zone it went to, whatever that may be. If another zone change happens, though, then It that Betrays loses track of it.
3) Since your opponent sacced the Finks to annihalator it is obviously your turn. Thus your trigger (It That Betrays) goes on the stack first, followed by his (persist). Since objects on the stack resolve top to bottom, persist will pull the Finks back before It That Betrays can grab it. Note, that if he sacrificed the Finks during his turn for whatever reason, It That Betrays would steal it before pesist can bring it back.
Edit:
Mistook who controlled the Finks and the Eldrazi. Corrected.
1. It that betrays has a triggered ability, and therefore cannot go on the stack until a player would receive priority. This generally means it will go to the graveyard.
2. They are exiled by the rest in peace, AND THEN you get them, as it does not specify they need to be in the graveyard, and RIP is a replacement effect.
3. It depends on whose turn it is. If it's your turn, the persist trigger resolves first and your opponent gets the 2/1 finds, if it's your opponent's turn, you get a 3/2 finks.
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1. The second ability is a triggered ability that triggers on the permanent being sacrificed. So they sac it, it hits the yar. Then It that _Betrays ability trigger putting it on the battlefield under your control. So they do touch the yard.
2. The permanent should still be sacrificed and since IT that Betrays doesn't specify "put that card onto the battlefield from the graveyard under your control" but only to put it on the battlefield it should be able to grab the card from exile since rest in peace is a rplacement effect.
3. You wouldn't get it with a counter on it. But if they sac it to your annihilator you wouldnb't get it at all. When they sac it there are two triggers. The persist from Finks and the trigger from it that betrays. Since you are the active player you put your trigger on the stack and then the next player does the same. So the persist trigger will be on top of the stack and resolve first getting the finks back to their side, and then your trigger won't do anything.
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I have carefully read all the answers. Thanks everyone.
Created this thread because my homebrew modern deck has an ITB, and these situations would come up sooner or later.
The third question is the most confusing, but I understand it now. Just to clarify.. I'm the one who control It That Betrays, and attacking the opponent who has kitchen finks that does not have a counter on it yet. So I attack with ITB, they sac finks. I don't get finks, and they get 2/1 finks instead, right?
Follow up to question 3, what if they have a Strangleroot Geist instead of finks. Works the same way? I don't get geist, and they get a geist with a counter instead?
When I attack with It That Betrays. Can an opponent sac their kitchen finks twice for the annihilator 2 trigger?
No. That player needs to sacrifice two different permanents as a single action. They can't sacrifice one, have something else happen, then sacrifice another.
It is not possible to sacrifice Kitchen Finks, have its Persist ability trigger, put it on the stack, have all players pass priority so it resolves, return Finks to the battlefield, and then sacrifice it again. Everything after "Persist triggers" can only happen after Annihilator has finished resolving.
1. When my opponent sacrifices a permanent to it's annihilator.. do the cards touch the yard or do the sacced cards automatically go to my side without touching the yard?
2. If there is a Rest in peace in play. Opponent sacrifice two llanowar elves to it that betrays annihilator. Do the elves go to my side, or are they exiled by rest in peace?
3. If opponent sacrifice a kitchen finks to it that betrays annihilator. Do I get a finks with a -1/-1 counter already on it?
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2) Both. Rest in Peace creates a replacement effect, so the cards never go to the graveyard but directly to exile instead. But It that Betrays doesn't care where the card goes, it will grab it out of the first zone it went to, whatever that may be. If another zone change happens, though, then It that Betrays loses track of it.
3) Since your opponent sacced the Finks to annihalator it is obviously your turn. Thus your trigger (It That Betrays) goes on the stack first, followed by his (persist). Since objects on the stack resolve top to bottom, persist will pull the Finks back before It That Betrays can grab it. Note, that if he sacrificed the Finks during his turn for whatever reason, It That Betrays would steal it before pesist can bring it back.
Edit:
Mistook who controlled the Finks and the Eldrazi. Corrected.
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2. They are exiled by the rest in peace, AND THEN you get them, as it does not specify they need to be in the graveyard, and RIP is a replacement effect.
3. It depends on whose turn it is. If it's your turn, the persist trigger resolves first and your opponent gets the 2/1 finds, if it's your opponent's turn, you get a 3/2 finks.
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2. The permanent should still be sacrificed and since IT that Betrays doesn't specify "put that card onto the battlefield from the graveyard under your control" but only to put it on the battlefield it should be able to grab the card from exile since rest in peace is a rplacement effect.
3. You wouldn't get it with a counter on it. But if they sac it to your annihilator you wouldnb't get it at all. When they sac it there are two triggers. The persist from Finks and the trigger from it that betrays. Since you are the active player you put your trigger on the stack and then the next player does the same. So the persist trigger will be on top of the stack and resolve first getting the finks back to their side, and then your trigger won't do anything.
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Created this thread because my homebrew modern deck has an ITB, and these situations would come up sooner or later.
The third question is the most confusing, but I understand it now. Just to clarify.. I'm the one who control It That Betrays, and attacking the opponent who has kitchen finks that does not have a counter on it yet. So I attack with ITB, they sac finks. I don't get finks, and they get 2/1 finks instead, right?
Follow up to question 3, what if they have a Strangleroot Geist instead of finks. Works the same way? I don't get geist, and they get a geist with a counter instead?
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Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
When I attack with It That Betrays. Can an opponent sac their kitchen finks twice for the annihilator 2 trigger?
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No. That player needs to sacrifice two different permanents as a single action. They can't sacrifice one, have something else happen, then sacrifice another.
It is not possible to sacrifice Kitchen Finks, have its Persist ability trigger, put it on the stack, have all players pass priority so it resolves, return Finks to the battlefield, and then sacrifice it again. Everything after "Persist triggers" can only happen after Annihilator has finished resolving.
It that betrays, is now nicknamed "it that pisses off your friends" in our playgroup.
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