So i am working on a Mairsil, the Pretender EDH deck and i am curious of a couple interactions
1) Reassembling Skeleton: If I cage this creature, will i be able to pay 1B ad bring Mairsil from my grave to the battlefield?
2) Chainer, Dementia Master: A lot of people are saying with chainer you get all the benefits and none of the drawback. I fail to see how that works? Wouldn't the nightmares leave when Mairsil leaves?
3) Quicksilver Elemental: I know this works but hoe does Caging Quicksilver elemental allow Mairsil to do her abilities multiple times? or are you not suppose to cage elemental and have it pull off the combo that Mairsil is now set up for (but cannot due to her 1/turn restrictions)?
1) The ability on the Skeleton only works in the graveyard. But, Mairsil's ability to gain abilities only works on the battlefield. So, Mairsil will have the ability on the battlefield, but can't activate it. And he will not have it at all in the graveyard.
2) Why would they? Mairsil copies activated abilities. That is it. The trigger to remove Nightmares is just that: a trigger. Since Mairsil doesn't copy triggers, he will not have the ability that says to exile all Nightmares.
3) Activating the Elemental targeting Mairsil gives him copies of all the abilities he already has, including that of the Elemental. So, he starts with the Elemental ability and that of Withered Wretch (let's say). Now, he activates that of the Elemental. Now, he has 2 Elemental Abilities and 2 Wretch abilities. One of the Elemental Abilities has been activated; one has not. And neither Wretch ability has been activated. Now, you activate both Wretch abilities. Since you activated each once, you are done with them, but you want to use them again. So, you activate the Elemental ability again. Now, you end up with 4 Elemental abilities and 4 Wretch abilities. 2 of each have not been activated. You activate Elemental's ability again and now you have 8 of each. And so on and so on. Each has its own restriction so you can activate each one once per turn.
1) The ability on the Skeleton only works in the graveyard. But, Mairsil's ability to gain abilities only works on the battlefield. So, Mairsil will have the ability on the battlefield, but can't activate it. And he will not have it at all in the graveyard.
2) Why would they? Mairsil copies activated abilities. That is it. The trigger to remove Nightmares is just that: a trigger. Since Mairsil doesn't copy triggers, he will not have the ability that says to exile all Nightmares.
3) Activating the Elemental targeting Mairsil gives him copies of all the abilities he already has, including that of the Elemental. So, he starts with the Elemental ability and that of Withered Wretch (let's say). Now, he activates that of the Elemental. Now, he has 2 Elemental Abilities and 2 Wretch abilities. One of the Elemental Abilities has been activated; one has not. And neither Wretch ability has been activated. Now, you activate both Wretch abilities. Since you activated each once, you are done with them, but you want to use them again. So, you activate the Elemental ability again. Now, you end up with 4 Elemental abilities and 4 Wretch abilities. 2 of each have not been activated. You activate Elemental's ability again and now you have 8 of each. And so on and so on. Each has its own restriction so you can activate each one once per turn.
1) Darn, that is unfortunate. i would love to be able to do some shenanigans with that.
2) Right, hmm i need to pick up a chainer now
3) Wait, wouldn't the elemental not have restrictions of 1/turn. Meaning that you activate elemental, you can now do her abilities an infinite amount of times (So long a s you can pay the costs)
3) Wait, wouldn't the elemental not have restrictions of 1/turn. Meaning that you activate elemental, you can now do her abilities an infinite amount of times (So long a s you can pay the costs)
The original ability does have that restriction. The copies also have that restriction. However, the copies of the abilities are just that: copies. So, you activate the original ability. Now, you can't activate *that specific* ability again, but luckily, the Elemental ability gave you a shiny new ability that you can activate. So, you do. And this time, it copies *both* of the Elemental abilities Mairsil has so you get *two* more abilities (now you are up to four). And yes, you can keep on doing this as long as you have the mana to do it. Though, as the math shows, you only need to spend about 7 blue mana to get over 100 copies of every ability he has (2^7 = 128) since each copy is also copied by each subsequent activation.
3) Wait, wouldn't the elemental not have restrictions of 1/turn. Meaning that you activate elemental, you can now do her abilities an infinite amount of times (So long a s you can pay the costs)
The original ability does have that restriction. The copies also have that restriction. However, the copies of the abilities are just that: copies. So, you activate the original ability. Now, you can't activate *that specific* ability again, but luckily, the Elemental ability gave you a shiny new ability that you can activate. So, you do. And this time, it copies *both* of the Elemental abilities Mairsil has so you get *two* more abilities (now you are up to four). And yes, you can keep on doing this as long as you have the mana to do it. Though, as the math shows, you only need to spend about 7 blue mana to get over 100 copies of every ability he has (2^7 = 128) since each copy is also copied by each subsequent activation.
wait how does it stack like that? its an activation, last I checked every activation is only one and cannot stack like triggered abilities.
That is what Quicksilver Elemental does: it grants itself (Mairsil in this case) all the activated abilities that the target creature (again, Mairsil in this case) already has. It doesn't look at itself and say "whelp, I already have an ability that does that; lets just skip it". It grants itself another instance of all abilities the target creature has which can result in some being "duplicates".
From the Gatherer Rulings on Quicksilver Elemental:
If you make two copies of an ability that can be activated once a turn, you can activate each of them once a turn. [10/4/2004]
You can activate the ability more than once, collecting abilities from multiple creatures (or the same creature more than once). [10/4/2004]
That is what Quicksilver Elemental does: it grants itself (Mairsil in this case) all the activated abilities that the target creature (again, Mairsil in this case) already has. It doesn't look at itself and say "whelp, I already have an ability that does that; lets just skip it". It grants itself another instance of all abilities the target creature has which can result in some being "duplicates".
From the Gatherer Rulings on Quicksilver Elemental:
If you make two copies of an ability that can be activated once a turn, you can activate each of them once a turn. [10/4/2004]
You can activate the ability more than once, collecting abilities from multiple creatures (or the same creature more than once). [10/4/2004]
But you only activate one at a time. If i activate quicksilver, it grants me one additional copy. i can;t pay blue and activate mutiple at a time. I will in teh end have 7 coppies (If i spend 7 mana) not 100+
The abilities granted by the ability of Quicksilver Elemental depend on the abilities of the target. This isn't stacking. This is counting. How many abilities does the target have - including the Quicksilver Elemental ability already on Mairsil, including all the abilities it gained from any source, including the additional Quicksilver Elemental abilities that Mairsil gave itself from resolving Quicksilver Elemental abilities.
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That is what Quicksilver Elemental does: it grants itself (Mairsil in this case) all the activated abilities that the target creature (again, Mairsil in this case) already has. It doesn't look at itself and say "whelp, I already have an ability that does that; lets just skip it". It grants itself another instance of all abilities the target creature has which can result in some being "duplicates".
From the Gatherer Rulings on Quicksilver Elemental:
If you make two copies of an ability that can be activated once a turn, you can activate each of them once a turn. [10/4/2004]
You can activate the ability more than once, collecting abilities from multiple creatures (or the same creature more than once). [10/4/2004]
But you only activate one at a time. If i activate quicksilver, it grants me one additional copy. i can;t pay blue and activate mutiple at a time. I will in teh end have 7 coppies (If i spend 7 mana) not 100+
No. Lets break it down:
You Cage Elemental. Mairsil now has 1 ability that says "Mairsil the Pretender gains all activated abilities of target creature until end of turn."
You activate that ability.
Now, Mairsil has 2 abilities that say "Mairsil the Pretender gains all activated abilities of target creature until end of turn.".
You activate the new one (since the first one was already activated).
Mairsil now has *4* abilities that say "Mairsil the Pretender gains all activated abilities of target creature until end of turn."
This is because both abilities are evaluated to give Mairsil new abilities. He had 2. Now he has 2 more to get to 4.
You activate one of the new ones again.
Now Mairsil has 8 abilities that say "Mairsil the Pretender gains all activated abilities of target creature until end of turn."
Again, all 4 are "seen" when the ability resolves to grant 4 more instances of the same ability. 4 + 4 is 8.
And so on (and on and on).
And again, this works with *all* the abilities he may have. So, in the example I provided earlier combined with the summary in this post, he has 8 Instances of the Elemental ability (3 have been activated) and 8 Instances of the Wretch's ability. Each can be activated once per turn.
new interaction question. Transfrom cards
If I cage Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh and her tap ability (And say i have infinite mana so i can use staff of domination (Which is also caged) to untap mairsil)
Anyway Chnadra's clause is that if i have deal 3 damage i transform her. But it is all in the same ability. What is the intereaction in thsi case?
You can't transform things that are not Double Faced cards. If you try, one of two things will happen:
1) If the ability just says "transform <this>" or "transform <something>" it just won't happen. For example, casting Moonmist will do nothing with Mairsil since he is not a DFC.
2) If the ability says "exile and return <this> transformed" the exile still works. However, since (again) Mairsil is not a DFC, he can't be returned transformed so he just sits in Exile forever (or the Command Zone if this is Commander and you put him in the Command Zone instead of Exile).
So, in the case of Chandra, Mairsil will be exiled/put into the Command Zone and then will not return.
711.5. Only permanents represented by double-faced cards can transform. (See rule 701.27, "Transform.") If a spell or ability instructs a player to transform any permanent that isn't represented by a double-faced card, nothing happens.
711.8a. If a player is instructed to put a card that isn't a double-faced card onto the battlefield transformed, that card stays in its current zone.
1) Reassembling Skeleton: If I cage this creature, will i be able to pay 1B ad bring Mairsil from my grave to the battlefield?
2) Chainer, Dementia Master: A lot of people are saying with chainer you get all the benefits and none of the drawback. I fail to see how that works? Wouldn't the nightmares leave when Mairsil leaves?
3) Quicksilver Elemental: I know this works but hoe does Caging Quicksilver elemental allow Mairsil to do her abilities multiple times? or are you not suppose to cage elemental and have it pull off the combo that Mairsil is now set up for (but cannot due to her 1/turn restrictions)?
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2) Why would they? Mairsil copies activated abilities. That is it. The trigger to remove Nightmares is just that: a trigger. Since Mairsil doesn't copy triggers, he will not have the ability that says to exile all Nightmares.
3) Activating the Elemental targeting Mairsil gives him copies of all the abilities he already has, including that of the Elemental. So, he starts with the Elemental ability and that of Withered Wretch (let's say). Now, he activates that of the Elemental. Now, he has 2 Elemental Abilities and 2 Wretch abilities. One of the Elemental Abilities has been activated; one has not. And neither Wretch ability has been activated. Now, you activate both Wretch abilities. Since you activated each once, you are done with them, but you want to use them again. So, you activate the Elemental ability again. Now, you end up with 4 Elemental abilities and 4 Wretch abilities. 2 of each have not been activated. You activate Elemental's ability again and now you have 8 of each. And so on and so on. Each has its own restriction so you can activate each one once per turn.
1) Darn, that is unfortunate. i would love to be able to do some shenanigans with that.
2) Right, hmm i need to pick up a chainer now
3) Wait, wouldn't the elemental not have restrictions of 1/turn. Meaning that you activate elemental, you can now do her abilities an infinite amount of times (So long a s you can pay the costs)
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wait how does it stack like that? its an activation, last I checked every activation is only one and cannot stack like triggered abilities.
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From the Gatherer Rulings on Quicksilver Elemental:
You can activate the ability more than once, collecting abilities from multiple creatures (or the same creature more than once). [10/4/2004]
But you only activate one at a time. If i activate quicksilver, it grants me one additional copy. i can;t pay blue and activate mutiple at a time. I will in teh end have 7 coppies (If i spend 7 mana) not 100+
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And again, this works with *all* the abilities he may have. So, in the example I provided earlier combined with the summary in this post, he has 8 Instances of the Elemental ability (3 have been activated) and 8 Instances of the Wretch's ability. Each can be activated once per turn.
If I cage Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh and her tap ability (And say i have infinite mana so i can use staff of domination (Which is also caged) to untap mairsil)
Anyway Chnadra's clause is that if i have deal 3 damage i transform her. But it is all in the same ability. What is the intereaction in thsi case?
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1) If the ability just says "transform <this>" or "transform <something>" it just won't happen. For example, casting Moonmist will do nothing with Mairsil since he is not a DFC.
2) If the ability says "exile and return <this> transformed" the exile still works. However, since (again) Mairsil is not a DFC, he can't be returned transformed so he just sits in Exile forever (or the Command Zone if this is Commander and you put him in the Command Zone instead of Exile).
So, in the case of Chandra, Mairsil will be exiled/put into the Command Zone and then will not return.
711.8a. If a player is instructed to put a card that isn't a double-faced card onto the battlefield transformed, that card stays in its current zone.