During the tournament I could request the oracle text for a card.
1) Could I describe the card without naming it, similar to pithing needle. iE could I request the oracle text for the red/ black temple. (Temple of Malice)
2) Could I ask something like "is there a red- blue cycle land where it is a island and mountain and can pay 2 to cycle legal in modern, similar to the red-black cycle land?"
3) this one is slightly off topic, but for cards with errated oracle texts, such as hostage taker or how the original lords (Lord of Atlantis / Goblin King) were Merfolk/ goblins but later changed to be goblins/ merfolks and says "other merfolk/ goblin" does your opponent need to tell you when they play the card?
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
1, 2: Under M.T.R. 3.6, choosing a card name means "provid[ing] a description ... that could only apply to one card".
3. Under M.T.R. 4.1, "Oracle content" is derived information, or is free information in tournaments at Regular rules enforcement level. All players have access to free information "without contamination or omissions made by their opponents". Players are also "entitled [to] access" derived information, but "opponents are not obliged to assist in determining" such information.
2) so in this case, would I say "could I get the oracle text for the red- blue cycle land where it is a island and mountain and can pay 2 to cycle" and the judge would say the card you are describing doesn't exist In modern?
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I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
2) so in this case, would I say "could I get the oracle text for the red- blue cycle land where it is a island and mountain and can pay 2 to cycle" and the judge would say the card you are describing doesn't exist In modern?
You can "choose a card name" for a card provided that card exists in the format you're playingOracle card reference (C.R. 201.3). For sanctioned tournaments, see M.T.R. 3.6.
EDIT (Oct. 4): Edited to conform to rule changes with Guilds of Ravnica.
Let me be a bit specific about 3. I heard about this case where the opponent played Sylvan library (old version with the 0) but the new sylvan library was errated to be a replacement effect. The opponent didn't know about the errated text and tried to pithing needle the library. Then the opponent told him that the new library is a replacement and pithing wouldn't work and from what I recall, he wasn't allowed to take it back.
Is there really no rule saying the player who played the old sylvan library needs to tell the opponent about the change when he tried to needle it?
how would the opponent get the "free" information about the library?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Let me be a bit specific about 3. I heard about this case where the opponent played Sylvan library (old version with the 0) but the new sylvan library was errated to be a replacement effect. The opponent didn't know about the errated text and tried to pithing needle the library. Then the opponent told him that the new library is a replacement and pithing wouldn't work and from what I recall, he wasn't allowed to take it back.
Is there really no rule saying the player who played the old sylvan library needs to tell the opponent about the change when he tried to needle it?
how would the opponent get the "free" information about the library?
In a sanctioned tournament:
"Judges ... can ... provide the Oracle(TM) wordings of relevant cards", including Sylvan Library in this scenario (M.T.R. 1.8).
"Players are under no obligation to assist their opponents in playing the game[, but] are expected to treat opponents politely and with respect" (M.T.R. 4.1, third paragraph). Moreover, "[a] player should have an advantage due to ... greater awareness of interactions in the current game state" (M.T.R. 4.1, second paragraph).
Depending on whether the sanctioned tournament uses Regular rules enforcement level or not, a player is entitled to Oracle content either "without contamination or omissions made by their opponents" (Regular) or without opponents being "obliged to assist in determining" such information (other levels) (M.T.R. 4.1). However, if a judge asks a player about Oracle content (or any other information about the game state), that player "must answer ... completely and honestly" (M.T.R. 4.1).
In the situation you give, a player can choose a card name with Pithing Needle even if the card with that name has no activated abilities (in its Oracle text [C.R. 108.1]), thus the action of choosing Sylvan Library this way wasn't an illegal action as far as the game is concerned (in general, only illegal actions can be reversed under certain circumstances [C.R. 723.1]). In a sanctioned tournament, a player is "not usually allowed to take back an action that has been communicated to their opponent, either verbally or physically" (M.T.R. 4.8). An exception is if a judge decides with certainty that a player "has not gained any information since taking [an unintended] action" and decides to "allow that player to change their mind" (M.T.R. 4.8). See also this thread.
Therefore, in this scenario, the player controlling Sylvan Library need not point out to the opponent whether Pithing Needle would work as the opponent would expect.
EDIT (Aug. 29, 2020): Edited to add text and change the citation for a renumbered rule.
1) Could I describe the card without naming it, similar to pithing needle. iE could I request the oracle text for the red/ black temple. (Temple of Malice)
2) Could I ask something like "is there a red- blue cycle land where it is a island and mountain and can pay 2 to cycle legal in modern, similar to the red-black cycle land?"
3) this one is slightly off topic, but for cards with errated oracle texts, such as hostage taker or how the original lords (Lord of Atlantis / Goblin King) were Merfolk/ goblins but later changed to be goblins/ merfolks and says "other merfolk/ goblin" does your opponent need to tell you when they play the card?
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
1, 2: Under M.T.R. 3.6, choosing a card name means "provid[ing] a description ... that could only apply to one card".
3. Under M.T.R. 4.1, "Oracle content" is derived information, or is free information in tournaments at Regular rules enforcement level. All players have access to free information "without contamination or omissions made by their opponents". Players are also "entitled [to] access" derived information, but "opponents are not obliged to assist in determining" such information.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
format you're playingOracle card reference (C.R. 201.3). For sanctioned tournaments, see M.T.R. 3.6.EDIT (Oct. 4): Edited to conform to rule changes with Guilds of Ravnica.
Is there really no rule saying the player who played the old sylvan library needs to tell the opponent about the change when he tried to needle it?
how would the opponent get the "free" information about the library?
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
In a sanctioned tournament:
In the situation you give, a player can choose a card name with Pithing Needle even if the card with that name has no activated abilities (in its Oracle text [C.R. 108.1]), thus the action of choosing Sylvan Library this way wasn't an illegal action as far as the game is concerned (in general, only illegal actions can be reversed under certain circumstances [C.R. 723.1]). In a sanctioned tournament, a player is "not usually allowed to take back an action that has been communicated to their opponent, either verbally or physically" (M.T.R. 4.8). An exception is if a judge decides with certainty that a player "has not gained any information since taking [an unintended] action" and decides to "allow that player to change their mind" (M.T.R. 4.8). See also this thread.
Therefore, in this scenario, the player controlling Sylvan Library need not point out to the opponent whether Pithing Needle would work as the opponent would expect.
EDIT (Aug. 29, 2020): Edited to add text and change the citation for a renumbered rule.