My husband and I can’t agree. If I play Torment of Scarabs to enchant him, but he has Dwarven Scorcher, can he activate Dwarven Scorcher’s ability (pay one fire mana, sacrifice DS to deal 1 damage to target player) to use both that ability AND satisfy the requirements of Torment of Scarabs?
I’m arguing that the point of Torment of Scarabs is to either force a payment of 3 life or to lose out on using a card (whether by discarding or removing from the battlefield), and that sacrificing Dwarven Sorcher to deal damage would not satisfy the enchantment, because sacrificing for the enchantment would mean he cannot use that ability. Would love for someone to weigh in.
For context, I’ve see the rule that one sacrifice cannot satisfy two different activated abilities, but he doesn’t think that rule applies here, since the enchantment isn’t an activated ability.
Well it is true that Torment of Scarabs has no activated abilities. It is also true that sacrificing a single object can't pay two costs. You can sacrifice a Dwarven Scorcher to avoid losing 3 life or discarding a card, or to activate its own ability, but not both.
No, he can't. Torment demands a sarifice when its trigger resolves, a time when no player has priority. So that is already one reason for why he can't do this, because to activate the Scorcher he has to have priority. Second, a cost of any kind is paid specifically for one thing only. Costs are not tied to only activated abilities, but spells and triggers as well (and other stuff can have costs, too), and don't always have to be paid up front. For example, Mana Leak's demand for mana for not countering the spell is a cost, despite the fact that it is demanding it in its effect. The cost here is a sacrifice, and you can't sacrifice one thing for two different costs/effects. That's like paying one dollar in one vending machine and expecting another machine to also having been paid, expecting two products for one payment.
117.1. A cost is an action or payment necessary to take another action or to stop another action from taking place. To pay a cost, a player carries out the instructions specified by the spell, ability, or effect that contains that cost.
117.10. Each payment of a cost applies to only one spell, ability, or effect. For example, a player can’t sacrifice just one creature to activate the activated abilities of two permanents that each require sacrificing a creature as a cost. Also, the resolution of a spell or ability doesn’t pay another spell or ability’s cost, even if part of its effect is doing the same thing the other cost asks for.
While an ability (such as the Torment's) or a spell is resolving, players do not activate abilities that aren't mana abilities. You need priority to do that, which no one has as spells and abilities resolve.
If a player activates Dwarven Scorcher, that is before Torment of Scarabs does anything, and then, Dwarven Scorcher can't be sacrificed, because it's dead.
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I’m arguing that the point of Torment of Scarabs is to either force a payment of 3 life or to lose out on using a card (whether by discarding or removing from the battlefield), and that sacrificing Dwarven Sorcher to deal damage would not satisfy the enchantment, because sacrificing for the enchantment would mean he cannot use that ability. Would love for someone to weigh in.
For context, I’ve see the rule that one sacrifice cannot satisfy two different activated abilities, but he doesn’t think that rule applies here, since the enchantment isn’t an activated ability.
Thanks!
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Dwarven Scorcher
No, he can't. Torment demands a sarifice when its trigger resolves, a time when no player has priority. So that is already one reason for why he can't do this, because to activate the Scorcher he has to have priority. Second, a cost of any kind is paid specifically for one thing only. Costs are not tied to only activated abilities, but spells and triggers as well (and other stuff can have costs, too), and don't always have to be paid up front. For example, Mana Leak's demand for mana for not countering the spell is a cost, despite the fact that it is demanding it in its effect. The cost here is a sacrifice, and you can't sacrifice one thing for two different costs/effects. That's like paying one dollar in one vending machine and expecting another machine to also having been paid, expecting two products for one payment.
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If a player activates Dwarven Scorcher, that is before Torment of Scarabs does anything, and then, Dwarven Scorcher can't be sacrificed, because it's dead.
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