Hi, here is the situation. I have metallurgic summonings in play along with 6 treasures (artifact tokens can be sac to add 1 any color mana). Nothing else and all lands are tapped.
My question is to confirm that I can activate metallurgic summonings's second ability by paying sacing my treasures. Reasons as following (I will only include the relevant details):
602.2 says "…Activating an ability follows the steps listed below, in order…"
602.2a The player announces that he or she is activating the ability..... That ability is created on the stack as an object that’s not a card. It becomes the topmost object on the stack.
[My first claim: I can declare to activate metallurgic summonings's the second ability because I currently control 6 artifacts]
602.2b The remainder of the process for activating an ability is identical to the process for casting a spell listed in rules 601.2b–i. Those rules apply to activating an ability just as they apply to casting a spell. An activated ability’s analog to a spell’s mana cost (as referenced in rule 601.2f) is its activation cost.
Now follows casting spell stepw which refers to rule 601.2b and so on:
601.2b If the spell is modal, the player announces the mode choice....(NA since the ability has no mode)
601.2c The player announces his or her choice of an appropriate player, object, or zone for each target the spell requires.... (NA since the ability has no targets)
601.2d If the spell requires the player to divide or distribute an effect (such as damage or counters) among one or more targets, the player announces the division....(NA)
601.2e The game checks to see if the proposed spell can legally be cast. (At this point there is nothing illegal)
601.2f The player determines the total cost of the spell....(cost of activating is to sac the enchantment and pay 3UU)
601.2g If the total cost includes a mana payment, the player then has a chance to activate mana abilities...(now I activate treasures' abilities to generate 3UU by sacing them. Note that the ability has already been activated and put on stack, so 6 artifact requirement is now irrelevant)
601.2h The player pays the total cost in any order. Partial payments are not allowed. Unpayable costs can’t be paid. (Pay 3UU and sac metallurgic summonings)
That's all the steps to activate an ability, now waiting to be resolved. QED
I am pretty confident that all steps are correct and they are legal moves, but somehow it's very difficult to explain and convince other people. If you disagree with me, please precisely point out the rule or statements I made
Yes, you can do what you want for the reasons you gave.
I would also like to point out that it is generally considered poor form to request a specific level judge to answer questions. One, because you have no idea who is a judge and two, because not being a judge doesn't mean someone doesn't know the answer.
You have it correctly. (I assume that each Treasure artifact token in the question is a "Treasure token" created due to an effect like Contract Killing's [C.R. 108.1]. Note that although a "Treasure token", as defined by C.R. 111.10a, is a "colorless Treasure artifact token with" a particular activated ability, the Treasure artifact type itself [C.R. 205.3g] has no abilities or game mechanics inherent to that type, including that activated ability.)
As you activate Metallurgic Summonings's second ability, the game checks if you control six or more artifacts only as you start to activate that ability and when C.R. 601.2e is reached (C.R. 601.1b, 602.2b, 601.2e), and not again after that point. Thus, you can sacrifice the tokens for mana as you describe and the spell will still be cast.
Please note that I am not a judge, and that a judge's level (or lack of one) has no bearing on whether the answer is correct.
EDIT (Jul. 9, 2019): Edited to conform to rule update with Core Set 2019.
EDIT (Jul. 10, 2019): Further correctness edit.
Thank you. I agree with your statement, however I do want to convince other people by telling them that "I have consulted level 2 judges". Of course anyone may answer/discuss on the topic, but I am sure a lot of people have met players that can't accept facts out of their mind, refuse to read and follow the rule that's in front of them, or just can't read. So simply tell those people I have confirmed with level 2 judges will help with the progress
Warning issued for rude behavior. Asking for a certified judge to answer you, furthermore a particular level of judge, is indeed considered poor form here, because it is assuming people without a particular title (a title which can be hard to prove on an anonymous Internet board, besides) don't have the authority to be credible. Your question has been answered correctly, confirming your reasoning and rules backup. -MadMageQc
I apologize for my misuse of words and miscommunication. I am not ignoring nor thinking other people are not credible, but same problem I face in real life: players would ask if I have confirmed the rules with judges, given that I was able to explain the rule well, people still hold doubt against me because I am not a judge. That's why I originally thought if a judge can confirm then all problems solved. Didn't expect to bring up this misbehavioral issue, I am happy that people are agreeing with me, it was so difficult to explain to others when they can't adopt complicated rules and refuse to believe because they thought differently.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
My question is to confirm that I can activate metallurgic summonings's second ability by paying sacing my treasures. Reasons as following (I will only include the relevant details):
602.2 says "…Activating an ability follows the steps listed below, in order…"
602.2a The player announces that he or she is activating the ability..... That ability is created on the stack as an object that’s not a card. It becomes the topmost object on the stack.
[My first claim: I can declare to activate metallurgic summonings's the second ability because I currently control 6 artifacts]
602.2b The remainder of the process for activating an ability is identical to the process for casting a spell listed in rules 601.2b–i. Those rules apply to activating an ability just as they apply to casting a spell. An activated ability’s analog to a spell’s mana cost (as referenced in rule 601.2f) is its activation cost.
Now follows casting spell stepw which refers to rule 601.2b and so on:
That's all the steps to activate an ability, now waiting to be resolved. QED
I am pretty confident that all steps are correct and they are legal moves, but somehow it's very difficult to explain and convince other people. If you disagree with me, please precisely point out the rule or statements I made
I would also like to point out that it is generally considered poor form to request a specific level judge to answer questions. One, because you have no idea who is a judge and two, because not being a judge doesn't mean someone doesn't know the answer.
As you activate Metallurgic Summonings's second ability, the game checks if you control six or more artifacts only as you start to activate that ability and when C.R. 601.2e is reached (C.R. 601.1b, 602.2b, 601.2e), and not again after that point. Thus, you can sacrifice the tokens for mana as you describe and the spell will still be cast.
Please note that I am not a judge, and that a judge's level (or lack of one) has no bearing on whether the answer is correct.
EDIT (Jul. 9, 2019): Edited to conform to rule update with Core Set 2019.
EDIT (Jul. 10, 2019): Further correctness edit.
Warning issued for rude behavior. Asking for a certified judge to answer you, furthermore a particular level of judge, is indeed considered poor form here, because it is assuming people without a particular title (a title which can be hard to prove on an anonymous Internet board, besides) don't have the authority to be credible. Your question has been answered correctly, confirming your reasoning and rules backup. -MadMageQc