1. Since Melek copies the Zenith, what are the CMCs of each copy of the Zenith with respect to the Sunbird's Invocation??
- presuming 9 and ???
2. How many Invocation triggers do I get?
- presuming one since I didn't cast the copy
3. How many experience counters do I generate from each of the Zeniths?
- presuming one for the original, which costs 6UUU = 9, which is greater than the 6 counters I previously have, and nothing again for the copy
4a. If the next card after the Zenith is a Cyclonic Rift, can I cast it off the Invocation trigger?
4b. Can I cast the Rift for the overload cost of 6U?
5a. If instead of a Rift, the next card after the Zenith is a Capsize, can I buy it back to my hand?
5b. Can Melek copy the Capsize that I cast off the Invocation trigger?
Trying to get as many random questions out of the way in advance of any future commander games that might get a little hairy. Thanks for all your help!
1. Not relevant, invocation only triggers if you cast from your hand.
2. 0, you didn't cast anything from your hand.
3. 1, you only cast one spell, the other was simply placed on the stack, not cast.
4a. No.
4b. No, even if you could cast it off the Invocation overload is an alternate casting cost and you are already doing an alternate cost through the Invocation.
5a. Not in this situation, but if you did cast a 4cmc+ spell from your hand, you could pay the buyback as this is an additional cost.
5b. Not in this situation, but if you did cast a 4cmc+ spell from your hand, yes, Melek can copy any instant or sorceries cast from your library, regardless of how they are cast.
1) Both the original and the copy have a CMC of 3 plus whatever you chose for X, which if the spell costs only 3 mana, can't be more than 6. The copy has that value as well. Cost increases or reductions don't change CMC, it is solely calculated from the card's mana cost as found in the upper right corner of the card. An X value changes the CMC of a spell by its chosen value.
2) None. Sunbird's Invocation doesn't care, because you didn't cast the spell from your hand.
3) Presumably one. The only spell you cast here is the original Zenith, and its CMC is 3+X. so if X is 4 or greater, you get an experience counter.
4a) Again, top of your libray, not your hand. Invovation doesn't trigger.
4b) You can cast it via Melek with overload, since he doesn't impose an alternative cost. If you get the Rift via the Invocation, you cannot overload, since "without paying its mana cost" is already the one alternative cost you can apply to the spell, and you have to use that one.
5a) Additional costs, like buyback, can be paid no matter how you get to cast the spell, though you have to pay for them. In the case of buyback, the spell will then return to your hand instead of being put into the graveyard when it resolves.
5b) Melek will trigger for any spell you cast from your library, yes, even if it is not through his own ability. Though again, you have no Invocation trigger in this scenario, because you didn't cast a spell from your hand.
Thanks for catching that. I totally missed the fact that Sunbird doesn't trigger unless I cast from hand.
New question:
- I have Mizzix and Sunbird on the table, with four experience counters from Mizzix.
- I cast Past in Flames from hand, triggering Sunbird.
- One of the revealed cards from the Sunbird trigger is Blue Sun's Zenith.
1a. Can I cast the Zenith off the Sunbird trigger?
1b. Can I use the experience counters from Mizzix to make X = 4?
1a) Yes, you can since its CMC is 3 which is less than Past in Flames.
1b) No, you cant. Since you are casting it without paying its mana cost, you must choose 0 for the value of X. Cost increases or decreases do not change the value of X. They change what you pay for the spell once X is declared. In this case, X is declared as 0 up front so the cost decreases won't do anything.
- I have a Mizzix of the Izmagnus in play with 6 experience counters, a Melek, Izzet Paragon, and a Sunbird's Invocation.
- The top card of my library is a Blue Sun's Zenith.
- I tap three Islands and cast the Zenith off the top of my deck.
1. Since Melek copies the Zenith, what are the CMCs of each copy of the Zenith with respect to the Sunbird's Invocation??
- presuming 9 and ???
2. How many Invocation triggers do I get?
- presuming one since I didn't cast the copy
3. How many experience counters do I generate from each of the Zeniths?
- presuming one for the original, which costs 6UUU = 9, which is greater than the 6 counters I previously have, and nothing again for the copy
4a. If the next card after the Zenith is a Cyclonic Rift, can I cast it off the Invocation trigger?
4b. Can I cast the Rift for the overload cost of 6U?
5a. If instead of a Rift, the next card after the Zenith is a Capsize, can I buy it back to my hand?
5b. Can Melek copy the Capsize that I cast off the Invocation trigger?
Trying to get as many random questions out of the way in advance of any future commander games that might get a little hairy. Thanks for all your help!
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
2. 0, you didn't cast anything from your hand.
3. 1, you only cast one spell, the other was simply placed on the stack, not cast.
4a. No.
4b. No, even if you could cast it off the Invocation overload is an alternate casting cost and you are already doing an alternate cost through the Invocation.
5a. Not in this situation, but if you did cast a 4cmc+ spell from your hand, you could pay the buyback as this is an additional cost.
5b. Not in this situation, but if you did cast a 4cmc+ spell from your hand, yes, Melek can copy any instant or sorceries cast from your library, regardless of how they are cast.
2) None. Sunbird's Invocation doesn't care, because you didn't cast the spell from your hand.
3) Presumably one. The only spell you cast here is the original Zenith, and its CMC is 3+X. so if X is 4 or greater, you get an experience counter.
4a) Again, top of your libray, not your hand. Invovation doesn't trigger.
4b) You can cast it via Melek with overload, since he doesn't impose an alternative cost. If you get the Rift via the Invocation, you cannot overload, since "without paying its mana cost" is already the one alternative cost you can apply to the spell, and you have to use that one.
5a) Additional costs, like buyback, can be paid no matter how you get to cast the spell, though you have to pay for them. In the case of buyback, the spell will then return to your hand instead of being put into the graveyard when it resolves.
5b) Melek will trigger for any spell you cast from your library, yes, even if it is not through his own ability. Though again, you have no Invocation trigger in this scenario, because you didn't cast a spell from your hand.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
New question:
- I have Mizzix and Sunbird on the table, with four experience counters from Mizzix.
- I cast Past in Flames from hand, triggering Sunbird.
- One of the revealed cards from the Sunbird trigger is Blue Sun's Zenith.
1a. Can I cast the Zenith off the Sunbird trigger?
1b. Can I use the experience counters from Mizzix to make X = 4?
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani
1b) No, you cant. Since you are casting it without paying its mana cost, you must choose 0 for the value of X. Cost increases or decreases do not change the value of X. They change what you pay for the spell once X is declared. In this case, X is declared as 0 up front so the cost decreases won't do anything.