Then opponent goes to draw a card. It is then that I realize the Chalice trigger, and I say, "Wait, GP was countered. You can't draw."
(Opp went ahead and drew a card anyway, regardless of my protests.)
The fairly obvious question is: how should we have correctly settled the draw part of GP, after I had revealed my hand?
But my real question is here:
When the Missed Trigger rulings were changing seemingly every week, I thought I heard that if you are aware of the trigger, either player is obliged to point it out (assuming it has a noticeable effect on the game state). A player is not allowed to do something and "see" if their opponent will miss the trigger. So, if my opp was aware that GP had been countered he is obliged to tell me.
Of course the weak point of this, is that it puts people on the honor system, but that was always the challenge of Missed Trigger policy from the get-go.
If one could determine that a player was indeed aware of the trigger, but failed to point it out, then is that a violation?
Your opponent is never required to point out triggers you control to you, even if they are aware of them. And you revealing your hand is clear indication that you've missed the trigger and are letting Gitaxian Probe resolve. They can draw their card. It's not them who took an action to make you miss your trigger, it's you who did something that said you were letting the Probe resolve.
A player forgets a triggered ability (one that uses the words “when,” “whenever,” or “at the beginning”, usually at the start of the ability's text)
These abilities are considered missed if the player did not acknowledge the ability in any way at the point that it required choices or had a visible in-game effect. If the ability includes the word “may,” assume the player chose not to perform it. Otherwise, use your judgement to decide if putting the trigger on the stack now would be too disruptive - don’t add it to the stack if significant decisions have been made based on th eeffect not happening! Unlike other illegal actions (which must be pointed out), players may choose whether or not to point out their opponent's missed triggers, though we should encourage them to do so.
EDIT: Thinking about it more, it might be argued that we could apply the Chalice's trigger as long as they didn't draw their card yet, and act as if you simply revealed your hand without an effect telling you to do so, which technically can happen. This is a stretch and a judgement call by the judge who intervenes. That won't happen on Competitve REL, though; there, the choice of putting the trigger on the stack is entirely up to the opponent.
From the Infraction Procedure Guide, section 2.1 (that section is pretty long, but the most relevant part):
[...] Opponents are not required to point out triggered abilities that they do not control, though they may do so if they wish.
I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
Opp plays Gitaxian Probe.
I reveal my hand.
Then opponent goes to draw a card. It is then that I realize the Chalice trigger, and I say, "Wait, GP was countered. You can't draw."
(Opp went ahead and drew a card anyway, regardless of my protests.)
The fairly obvious question is: how should we have correctly settled the draw part of GP, after I had revealed my hand?
But my real question is here:
When the Missed Trigger rulings were changing seemingly every week, I thought I heard that if you are aware of the trigger, either player is obliged to point it out (assuming it has a noticeable effect on the game state). A player is not allowed to do something and "see" if their opponent will miss the trigger. So, if my opp was aware that GP had been countered he is obliged to tell me.
Of course the weak point of this, is that it puts people on the honor system, but that was always the challenge of Missed Trigger policy from the get-go.
If one could determine that a player was indeed aware of the trigger, but failed to point it out, then is that a violation?
Thanks in advance.
J
From the Judging at Regular REL document: EDIT: Thinking about it more, it might be argued that we could apply the Chalice's trigger as long as they didn't draw their card yet, and act as if you simply revealed your hand without an effect telling you to do so, which technically can happen. This is a stretch and a judgement call by the judge who intervenes. That won't happen on Competitve REL, though; there, the choice of putting the trigger on the stack is entirely up to the opponent.
From the Infraction Procedure Guide, section 2.1 (that section is pretty long, but the most relevant part):
J