For the Crew ability, per the rules, you can technically tap zero creatures of power N or greater. (Crazy, right?)
702.121a Crew is an activated ability of Vehicle cards. “Crew N” means “Tap any number of untapped creatures you control with total power N or greater: This permanent becomes an artifact creature until end of turn.”
Any number, huh? 107.1c (with my emphasis):
107.1c If a rule or ability instructs a player to choose “any number,” that player may choose any positive number or zero, unless something (such as damage or counters) is being divided or distributed among “any number” of players and/or objects. In that case, a nonzero number of players and/or objects must be chosen if possible.
It would appear Wizards should update 702.121a to read:
702.121a Crew is an activated ability of Vehicle cards. “Crew N” means “Tap one or more untapped creatures you control with total power N or greater: This permanent becomes an artifact creature until end of turn.”
I am not even sure if there is a necessary goal of clarity here. Your update seems to change nothing about the intended interaction nor confusion over possible corner cases. Is there some scenario you can construct where you are able to tap 0 creatures yet still be able to come up with a value for those 0 creatures' combined toughness power (not sure why I typed toughness)?
Not sure where “toughness” comes into play. Did you mean power?
Any number includes zero. By definition. I could choose to not tap any creatures and still turn it into an artifact creature. I get that sounds stupid (and maybe it is), but currently, the rules back that up.
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The "any number" on the crew ability (C.R. 702.121a) means only that the number of creatures tapped to pay for that ability doesn't matter, as long as their total power is equal to or greater than the crew number. That ability's activation cost doesn't say—
"Tap any number of untapped creatures you control" (including zero under C.R. 107.1c) without more, or
"Tap any number of untapped creatures you control each with power N or greater" (that is, each creature tapped this way must have power N or greater),
but "Tap any number of untapped creatures you control with total power N or greater" (C.R. 702.121a).
Not sure where “toughness” comes into play. Did you mean power?
Any number includes zero. By definition. I could choose to not tap any creatures and still turn it into an artifact creature. I get that sounds stupid (and maybe it is), but currently, the rules back that up.
I corrected it but, as others have pointed out, you still have the other half of the requirement (which you failed to address in my question above). So, is there a scenario where you are able to tap 0 creatures to still crew a vehicle that has a Crew value of 1 or greater? Because, there is no such way to do that and there is no Crew 0 ability so I am not sure how the rules back up being able to tap 0 creatures and still end up with a crewed vehicle.
I could choose to tap zero untapped creatures I control with total power 1 or greater — not tapping the Dune Beetle. It meets the requirements, with total power 1 or greater. I just choose zero as the number of them I will tap. I have fulfilled the cost — I tapped zero creatures with power 1 or greater. Zero is a number.
This is no different than Aetherborn Marauder and choosing not to move any +1/+1 counters. I can choose to move zero:
(2016-09-20) You may choose to move zero +1/+1 counters.
When paying for the crew ability, you don't determine a subset of untapped creatures you control with total power N or greater, then choose to tap "any number" of creatures in that subset (e.g., tap some of those creatures but not others); rather you choose "any number" of untapped creatures you control, as long as the creatures chosen this way have total power N or greater, then tap the creatures chosen this way.
Similarly, with Aetherborn Marauder, you choose "any number" of +1/+1 counters among other permanents you control, then move those counters onto Aetherborn Marauder.
Similarly, you target the number of creature cards for Bone Harvest (C.R. 601.2c); only when Bone Harvest resolves are those cards put into the library.
EDIT: Clarification after comment 10 was posted, and again after comment 12 was posted.
…rather, you choose "any number" of creatures you control, as long as those creatures have total power N or greater, then tap those creatures.
That sounds good, but that’s not what the rules say.
The crew ability's cost should be read "Tap a subset of untapped creatures you control, where the creatures in that subset have total power N or greater", not—
"Tap any number of creatures among untapped creatures you control with total power N or greater", or
"Tap any number of creatures among a subset of untapped creatures you control, where the creatures in that subset have total power N or greater".
If you believe C.R. 702.121a is ambiguous, then how that rule should be worded to resolve that ambiguity is not a question that can be answered in this forum.
That sounds good, but that’s not what the rules say.
That is exactly what the rules say. There is only one (1) set of creatures in "Tap any number of untapped creatures you control with total power N or greater"
The qualification for that set: untapped creatures you control with total power N or greater
What you do with that set: Tap
Tapping just a Runeclaw Bear (2/2) as part of a crew cost will work for a Sky Skiff (Crew 1) because the total power is 2, but not a Ballista Charger (Crew 3) or Demolition Stomper (Crew 5). This statement does not change if you also control a Forest Bear (2/2) and a Bear Cub (2/2) that you do not tap.
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Why bother with mere rulings when so many answers can be found in the Rules?
So, to summarize, the OP proposes that a Vehicle can be crewed by pointing to a set of creatures with total power N or greater, and then tapping 0 of them, which is a number of them. To that:
Consider the wording "Tap a number of untapped creatures you control with total power N or greater." and reflect on its clarity.
Now consider the closeness of the article 'a' to the quantifier 'any'.
This confusion is grounded in an illusion of English grammar. Put another way, you can't get a phrase referring to a definite subset of creatures with just the words "untapped creatures you control." You're arguing you can identify this set and then take the action "Tap any number of [them]." But there is no [them]. There is a word missing from such a syntax, which is "Tap any number of some untapped creatures you control with total power N or greater." or some other article in place of 'some'.
Instead, the construct "[a] number of" is acting as that very article.
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Except, that the rules state the exact opposite, zero IS a valid choice for "any number". And the only exception is when somethinng has to be divided. Also, logically, a set of zero creatures can be untapped. Zero is not a NULL value.
107.1c If a rule or ability instructs a player to choose “any number,” that player may choose any positive number or zero, unless something (such as damage or counters) is being divided or distributed among “any number” of players and/or objects. In that case, a nonzero number of players and/or objects must be chosen if possible.
A creature “crews a Vehicle” when it’s tapped to pay the cost to activate a Vehicle’s crew ability.
A creature that remains untapped because you elected to Tap 0 is not crewing a vehicle, hence the cost has not been paid.
The cost isn't just the number of creatures tapped. It's the number of untapped creatures tapped[ whose total power is greater or equal to X as specified on the Vehicle card.
In other words, tapping 0 creatures also causes the total power to also be 0 which don't meet the cost.
Yes, the total power of tapped creatures still has to match or exceed the crew value. So choosing to tap zero creatures would only be possible if the crew value is zero (which no vehicle has right now). But it would be possible to do so since tapping creatures with total power zero or more is essentially a "free" cost, and the only thing you have to do to pay such free costs is to acknowledge that you pay them. Of course, no creature would actually be crewing the vehicle, but it would still be crewed.
I could choose to tap zero untapped creatures I control with total power 1 or greater
No. You're ignoring the little word 'total' here. Zero creatures have a total (or combined, if this clears things up) power of 0.
So you could tap zero untapped creatures you conrol [with total power of 0] - therefore not meeting the crew condition OR [a positive number of untapped creatures you control] with total power of 1 or greater.
It IS different, since the marauder just specifies 'any number of +1/+1 counters on other permanents you control' without further conditions. Crew on the other hand includes the condition 'with total power X or more'.
This is the Rulings forum, not the "debate whether zero creatures can have power 1 or greater" forum. A vehicle can only be crewed if the sum of the tapped creature or creatures' power meets or exceeds the crew cost. Anything else is baseless nonsense that has no place in this forum. Thread locked.
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Any number, huh? 107.1c (with my emphasis):
It would appear Wizards should update 702.121a to read:
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toughnesspower (not sure why I typed toughness)?Any number includes zero. By definition. I could choose to not tap any creatures and still turn it into an artifact creature. I get that sounds stupid (and maybe it is), but currently, the rules back that up.
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Only if the crew value is 0 (or less). Because the total power is going to be 0. So, what is the "it" in your statement?
I could choose to tap zero untapped creatures I control with total power 1 or greater — not tapping the Dune Beetle. It meets the requirements, with total power 1 or greater. I just choose zero as the number of them I will tap. I have fulfilled the cost — I tapped zero creatures with power 1 or greater. Zero is a number.
This is no different than Aetherborn Marauder and choosing not to move any +1/+1 counters. I can choose to move zero: Or Bone Harvest. Or Blue Mana Battery. Or Landslide.
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Similarly, with Aetherborn Marauder, you choose "any number" of +1/+1 counters among other permanents you control, then move those counters onto Aetherborn Marauder.
Similarly, you target the number of creature cards for Bone Harvest (C.R. 601.2c); only when Bone Harvest resolves are those cards put into the library.
EDIT: Clarification after comment 10 was posted, and again after comment 12 was posted.
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The qualification for that set: untapped creatures you control with total power N or greater
What you do with that set: Tap
Tapping just a Runeclaw Bear (2/2) as part of a crew cost will work for a Sky Skiff (Crew 1) because the total power is 2, but not a Ballista Charger (Crew 3) or Demolition Stomper (Crew 5). This statement does not change if you also control a Forest Bear (2/2) and a Bear Cub (2/2) that you do not tap.
This confusion is grounded in an illusion of English grammar. Put another way, you can't get a phrase referring to a definite subset of creatures with just the words "untapped creatures you control." You're arguing you can identify this set and then take the action "Tap any number of [them]." But there is no [them]. There is a word missing from such a syntax, which is "Tap any number of some untapped creatures you control with total power N or greater." or some other article in place of 'some'.
Instead, the construct "[a] number of" is acting as that very article.
Awesome avatar provided by Krashbot @ [Epic Graphics].
Except, that the rules state the exact opposite, zero IS a valid choice for "any number". And the only exception is when somethinng has to be divided. Also, logically, a set of zero creatures can be untapped. Zero is not a NULL value.
107.1c If a rule or ability instructs a player to choose “any number,” that player may choose any positive number or zero, unless something (such as damage or counters) is being divided or distributed among “any number” of players and/or objects. In that case, a nonzero number of players and/or objects must be chosen if possible.
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A creature that remains untapped because you elected to Tap 0 is not crewing a vehicle, hence the cost has not been paid.
The cost isn't just the number of creatures tapped. It's the number of untapped creatures tapped[ whose total power is greater or equal to X as specified on the Vehicle card.
In other words, tapping 0 creatures also causes the total power to also be 0 which don't meet the cost.
Former Rules Advisor
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(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
So you could tap zero untapped creatures you conrol [with total power of 0] - therefore not meeting the crew condition OR [a positive number of untapped creatures you control] with total power of 1 or greater.
It IS different, since the marauder just specifies 'any number of +1/+1 counters on other permanents you control' without further conditions. Crew on the other hand includes the condition 'with total power X or more'.
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