My friend was discussing this with me and showed me his source, but I disagree with the way he's saying it would resolve. Here's the scenario:
My opponent controls Purphoros, God of the Forge and I control no creatures. I cast a kicked Rite of Replication targeting that Purphoros, creating 5 copies of him. My friend says that the 5 would enter as creatures because my devotion is 5 and I say they would enter as enchantments and become creatures due to entering because my devotion wasn't 5 until they entered. That's only part of the disagreement. I can see how that would potentially work. The main issue I see is, none of the Purphoros tokens I control would trigger because they entered simultaneously. In order for this to work, wouldn't the copies have to have been on the field in order to trigger? I may be wrong, but that's how I understood ETB triggers to work unless it specifies itself as well as other creatures. He's basically saying each Purphoros would deal 8 damage for the other 4 entering, resulting in 40 damage.
All five tokens of Purphoros enter the battlefield at the same time, and will enter as creatures.
As per this ruling from Gatherer:-
9/15/2013 - If a God enters the battlefield, your devotion to its color (including the mana symbols in the mana cost of the God itself) will determine if a creature entered the battlefield or not, for abilities that trigger whenever a creature enters the battlefield.
And whenever things enter the battlefield at the same time, they see each other entering. So each Purphoros token will see the other four tokens entering the battlefield. And then trigger four times. In total 40 damage is dealt to all your opponents.
Of course before these triggers resolve you will have to put four of the tokens into your graveyard due to the Legend rule. But that doesn't stop the triggers from resolving.
All five tokens of Purphoros enter the battlefield at the same time, and will enter as creatures.
As per this ruling from Gatherer:-
9/15/2013 - If a God enters the battlefield, your devotion to its color (including the mana symbols in the mana cost of the God itself) will determine if a creature entered the battlefield or not, for abilities that trigger whenever a creature enters the battlefield.
And whenever things enter the battlefield at the same time, they see each other entering. So each Purphoros token will see the other four tokens entering the battlefield. And then trigger four times. In total 40 damage is dealt to all your opponents.
Of course before these triggers resolve you will have to put four of the tokens into your graveyard due to the Legend rule. But that doesn't stop the triggers from resolving.
Hope that helps.
It does. Thank you. I was mostly unsure about how that would work since all 5 enter simultaneously. I thought he was wrong, but it's actually better for me that he's right cuz I run a deck based on copying. Thanks for the answer!
603.6a Enters-the-battlefield abilities trigger when a permanent enters the battlefield. These are
written, “When [this object] enters the battlefield, . . . “ or “Whenever a [type] enters the
battlefield, . . .” Each time an event puts one or more permanents onto the battlefield, all
permanents on the battlefield (including the newcomers) are checked for any enters-thebattlefield
triggers that match the event.
603.6b Continuous effects that modify characteristics of a permanent do so the moment the
permanent is on the battlefield (and not before then). The permanent is never on the battlefield
with its unmodified characteristics. Continuous effects don’t apply before the permanent is on
the battlefield, however (see rule 603.6d).
Sorry to piggyback on OP's question. Just for clarification, OP's opponent's Purphoros, God of the Forge would have had to have been a creature at the time OP's Rite of Replication was put onto the stack AND when it resolved, correct? Otherwise, OP would not have been able to target an inactive Purphoros, right?
Sorry to piggyback on OP's question. Just for clarification, OP's opponent's Purphoros, God of the Forge would have had to have been a creature at the time OP's Rite of Replication was put onto the stack AND when it resolved, correct? Otherwise, OP would not have been able to target an inactive Purphoros, right?
My opponent controls Purphoros, God of the Forge and I control no creatures. I cast a kicked Rite of Replication targeting that Purphoros, creating 5 copies of him. My friend says that the 5 would enter as creatures because my devotion is 5 and I say they would enter as enchantments and become creatures due to entering because my devotion wasn't 5 until they entered. That's only part of the disagreement. I can see how that would potentially work. The main issue I see is, none of the Purphoros tokens I control would trigger because they entered simultaneously. In order for this to work, wouldn't the copies have to have been on the field in order to trigger? I may be wrong, but that's how I understood ETB triggers to work unless it specifies itself as well as other creatures. He's basically saying each Purphoros would deal 8 damage for the other 4 entering, resulting in 40 damage.
As per this ruling from Gatherer:-
And whenever things enter the battlefield at the same time, they see each other entering. So each Purphoros token will see the other four tokens entering the battlefield. And then trigger four times. In total 40 damage is dealt to all your opponents.
Of course before these triggers resolve you will have to put four of the tokens into your graveyard due to the Legend rule. But that doesn't stop the triggers from resolving.
Hope that helps.
It does. Thank you. I was mostly unsure about how that would work since all 5 enter simultaneously. I thought he was wrong, but it's actually better for me that he's right cuz I run a deck based on copying. Thanks for the answer!
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Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsCorrect. Rite of Replication only targets creatures. So Purphoros, God of the Forge]Purphoros would need to be a legal target (a creature) when the spell is cast and when it resolves.
Hope that helps.