I'm looking for some clarification on how well Spell Queller will work in a Brago, King Eternal deck. I haven't seen any decklists that include spell queller, and if it works as well as I think it should I don't understand why. I just want to preface by saying that I've been playing Brago for a while now, and have a fairly good understanding of how the stack works for the Strionic Resonator Shenanigans. So my specific example/question is this:
Let's say on my field during my turn I currently have Brago, King Eternal, Strionic Resonator, Sol-ring, and a Spell Queller that has previously exiled an opponent's Hour of Revelation. I move to combat and swing with Brago, activating his ability and putting it on the stack. I then respond to Brago's ability by activating Strionic Resonator copying Brago's ability on the stack. With the Strionic copy I target Strionic Resonator, and Sol Ring to keep the combo going, and I also target Spell Queller. I let the Strionic copy resolve and order the stack as such:
-Spell Queller ETB(2)
-Spell Queller LTB(1) [Holding the Hour of Revelation]
-Brago's Triggered Ability
I let the Spell Queller's ETB(2) resolve as there are no other spells currently on the stack for it to target. I then let the Spell Queller LTB(1) resolve, my opponent decides to cast the Hour of Revelation knowing that if they don't it will be exiled permanently regardless.
However this is where I am a little fuzzy on the specifics and am hoping someone can clarify. Since the Hour of Revelation is being cast, my understanding is that it should go on the stack, and therefor should be able to be responded to, so I'm going to roll with that assumption for the remainder of this example.
So in response to the Hour of Revelation on the stack I would activate Strionic, again copying Brago's trigger, targeting the Strionic, Sol Ring, and Spell Queller with the copy, then allow the copy to resolve and ordering the stack as such:
-Spell Queller LTB(2)
-Spell Queller ETB(3) [Targeting the Hour of Revelation]
-Hour of Revelation
-Brago's Triggered Ability
Allow the Spell Queller LTB(2) to resolve, then respond to the Spell Queller ETB(3) with any instant speed removal spell, I'll use Swords to Plowshares for my example, targeting any random opponent's creature. Hold priority, then respond to that with another Strionic activation, again copying Brago's ability, and again targeting Strionic, Sol Ring, and Spell Queller. Allow the copy to resolve and order the stack as such:
-Spell Queller LTB(3)
-Spell Queller ETB(4) [Targeting my Swords to Plowshares]
-Swords to Plowshares
-Spell Queller ETB(3) [Targeting the Hour of Revelation]
-Hour of Revelation
-Brago's Triggered Ability
If I understand correctly, once everything resolves the opponent's Hour of Revelation should be permanently exiled, and I now have insurance on my Spell Queller, because my opponent's know if they try to kill it they will be guaranteeing one of their creatures gets sworded.
I'm not completely certain if this works, though I do believe your reasoning checks out. If it does work, the reason you don't see this being used in any lists is that it's pretty much very winmore. The cool interaction you're looking at would only turn on when you already have what most Brago lists consider a win condition, and outside of the Strio-loop Queller doesn't provide a Brago list that much value.
First, Spell Queller cannot exile an Hour of Revelation, since its CMC is always 6 (cost reductions don't affect CMC), which is not 4 or less.
Second, if there are not enough legal targets for a targeted triggered ability when it goes on the stack, the abilty is removed from the stack right away.
Third, yes any spell cast via Spell Queller goes to the stack and can be responded to.
First, Spell Queller cannot exile an Hour of Revelation, since its CMC is always 6 (cost reductions don't affect CMC), which is not 4 or less.
You're correct, thanks for pointing that out. I glossed over the "CMC must be 4 or less" part of the ETB ability when writing this example and chose Hour of Revelation as it seemed more devastating than a wrath.
Which part of my explanation are you referring to by:
Second, if there are not enough legal targets for a targeted triggered ability when it goes on the stack, the abilty is removed from the stack right away.
I'm not completely certain if this works, though I do believe your reasoning checks out. If it does work, the reason you don't see this being used in any lists is that it's pretty much very winmore. The cool interaction you're looking at would only turn on when you already have what most Brago lists consider a win condition, and outside of the Strio-loop Queller doesn't provide a Brago list that much value.
This makes sense, my EDH playgroup doesn't allow for infinite combo wins, and limits combos that would be infinite to 5 loops. So I usually just end up using the Stri-combo to clear people's boards and wait for another more aggro player to take them out while protecting my own board state.
Which part of my explanation are you referring to by:
Second, if there are not enough legal targets for a targeted triggered ability when it goes on the stack, the abilty is removed from the stack right away.
This:
I let the Spell Queller's ETB(2) resolve as there are no other spells currently on the stack for it to target. I then let the Spell Queller LTB(1) resolve, my opponent decides to cast the Hour of Revelation knowing that if they don't it will be exiled permanently regardless.
This ability doesn't resolve, because it was only briefly on the stack and promply removed for being unable to target anything.
Which part of my explanation are you referring to by:
Second, if there are not enough legal targets for a targeted triggered ability when it goes on the stack, the abilty is removed from the stack right away.
[/quote]
Nevermind, I see now that you were referring to the Hour of Revelation. Thank you for helping to clarify!
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I'm looking for some clarification on how well Spell Queller will work in a Brago, King Eternal deck. I haven't seen any decklists that include spell queller, and if it works as well as I think it should I don't understand why. I just want to preface by saying that I've been playing Brago for a while now, and have a fairly good understanding of how the stack works for the Strionic Resonator Shenanigans. So my specific example/question is this:
Let's say on my field during my turn I currently have Brago, King Eternal, Strionic Resonator, Sol-ring, and a Spell Queller that has previously exiled an opponent's Hour of Revelation. I move to combat and swing with Brago, activating his ability and putting it on the stack. I then respond to Brago's ability by activating Strionic Resonator copying Brago's ability on the stack. With the Strionic copy I target Strionic Resonator, and Sol Ring to keep the combo going, and I also target Spell Queller. I let the Strionic copy resolve and order the stack as such:
-Spell Queller ETB(2)
-Spell Queller LTB(1) [Holding the Hour of Revelation]
-Brago's Triggered Ability
I let the Spell Queller's ETB(2) resolve as there are no other spells currently on the stack for it to target. I then let the Spell Queller LTB(1) resolve, my opponent decides to cast the Hour of Revelation knowing that if they don't it will be exiled permanently regardless.
However this is where I am a little fuzzy on the specifics and am hoping someone can clarify. Since the Hour of Revelation is being cast, my understanding is that it should go on the stack, and therefor should be able to be responded to, so I'm going to roll with that assumption for the remainder of this example.
So in response to the Hour of Revelation on the stack I would activate Strionic, again copying Brago's trigger, targeting the Strionic, Sol Ring, and Spell Queller with the copy, then allow the copy to resolve and ordering the stack as such:
-Spell Queller LTB(2)
-Spell Queller ETB(3) [Targeting the Hour of Revelation]
-Hour of Revelation
-Brago's Triggered Ability
Allow the Spell Queller LTB(2) to resolve, then respond to the Spell Queller ETB(3) with any instant speed removal spell, I'll use Swords to Plowshares for my example, targeting any random opponent's creature. Hold priority, then respond to that with another Strionic activation, again copying Brago's ability, and again targeting Strionic, Sol Ring, and Spell Queller. Allow the copy to resolve and order the stack as such:
-Spell Queller LTB(3)
-Spell Queller ETB(4) [Targeting my Swords to Plowshares]
-Swords to Plowshares
-Spell Queller ETB(3) [Targeting the Hour of Revelation]
-Hour of Revelation
-Brago's Triggered Ability
If I understand correctly, once everything resolves the opponent's Hour of Revelation should be permanently exiled, and I now have insurance on my Spell Queller, because my opponent's know if they try to kill it they will be guaranteeing one of their creatures gets sworded.
Is this correct?
Warning issued for unsure answer. -MadMage
Most Used (of many dozens) EDH Decks:
Brago, King Eternal - Stax
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - Aggro Combo
Wort, the Raidmother - Spellslinger Swarm Control
Animar, Soul of Elements - Tempo Combo
Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder - Spellslinger
Exodia the Forbidden One:
Oona, Queen of the Fae - Combowins.dec
Second, if there are not enough legal targets for a targeted triggered ability when it goes on the stack, the abilty is removed from the stack right away.
Third, yes any spell cast via Spell Queller goes to the stack and can be responded to.
The rest works as decribed, yes.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
Which part of my explanation are you referring to by:
This makes sense, my EDH playgroup doesn't allow for infinite combo wins, and limits combos that would be infinite to 5 loops. So I usually just end up using the Stri-combo to clear people's boards and wait for another more aggro player to take them out while protecting my own board state.
This:
This ability doesn't resolve, because it was only briefly on the stack and promply removed for being unable to target anything.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
Nevermind, I see now that you were referring to the Hour of Revelation. Thank you for helping to clarify!