A situation, which would be a good teaching moment involving priority, arose last night when playing against my friend’s Lantern Control deck for the first time.
On top of my library was a useless Forest. I had a Kor Spiritdancer in play. My plan was to use the Spiritdancer’s draw ability to attempt to dig beyond that Forest on top my deck. Using a fetch to remove that Forest.
I decided to cast a Hyena Umbra targeting my Slippery Bogle to trigger Kor Spiritdancer’s draw ability. With that trigger on the stack I cracked one of my fetch lands to shuffle away the Forest on top my deck.
I asked my opponent for a response. He declined, which resolved the fetch land ability. The forest shuffles away and up pops a Nature's Claim on top of my library. Now I am wanting my Kor Spiritdancer draw ability, next on the stack, to resolve. But this, of course, is where my opponent decides to activate the Codex Shredder to mill it. I assume he can do this even though he had no response to the initial trigger of Kor Spiritdancer and also had no response to my fetch, because before anything resolves we need to go through both passes of priority, myself and then my opponent, yes?
Assuming yes, he mills it away and then up flips another good card, lets say a Stony Silence. Now, with the Kor Spiritdancer’s ability yet again still waiting to resolve he has priority again to activate another ability to mill this as well?
I imagine this is just the power of the Lantern Control lock that I need to get used to?
At the time of the match I was (very likely mistakenly) convinced that: because my opponent said okay (passed priority) on the resolution of the Kor Spiritdancer draw and then again on the fetch land activation, that meant he has now given up his chance to respond to a new card flipping up. You can’t really respond to something like your top library card being revealed. (While we’re on that topic, you cannot respond to mana being tapped either, yes?)
But now I am starting to realize that, because I activated that fetch he has a new chance at responding to Kor Spiritdancer’s draw trigger, simply because we must go through a round of “I pass priority, you now have it, what do you do?” for each item on the stack.
I guess the question here is, can you explain to me how this situation should play out? Assuming I took the actions I described.
And then offer any advice on how to best play around that Lantern Control lock - (valid advice would include: “accept your fate that you are playing against Lantern Control and you have almost no out given the facts you described”)
The stack resolves one spell or ability at a time, not all at once. After each spell or ability resolves, everyone gets priority again before the next spell or ability resolves. So yes, your opponent gets priority after the fetchland ability resolves, before the Spiritdancer's trigger resolves, and based on what's on top of your library, can choose to use to the Codex to mill that top card before you would draw it. They can even use the second Codex after the first ability resolves and the next card is revealed to mill the new top card before you would draw it.
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Scientists have calculated that the chance of anything so patently absurd actually existing are millions to one. But magicians have calculated that million-to-one chances crop up nine times out of ten.
I assume he can do this even though he had no response to the initial trigger of Kor Spiritdancer and also had no response to my fetch, because before anything resolves we need to go through both passes of priority, myself and then my opponent, yes?
Assuming yes, he mills it away and then up flips another good card, lets say a Stony Silence. Now, with the Kor Spiritdancer’s ability yet again still waiting to resolve he has priority again to activate another ability to mill this as well?
Yes. After the the first activation of Shredder resolves, both players must get priority again before the next object on the stack (Spiritdancer's ability) resolves. The game doesn't let the topmost object on the stack resolve until all players have passed priority in succession, denying to do anything else in response to it.
I imagine this is just the power of the Lantern Control lock that I need to get used to?
Many wouldn't consider that a rules question, but yeah, I guess so.
At the time of the match I was (very likely mistakenly) convinced that: because my opponent said okay (passed priority) on the resolution of the Kor Spiritdancer draw and then again on the fetch land activation, that meant he has now given up his chance to respond to a new card flipping up. You can’t really respond to something like your top library card being revealed. (While we’re on that topic, you cannot respond to mana being tapped either, yes?)
Correct, you can't respond to those things, but you can respond to something else still on the stack after the game state has changed. The rules are designed to allow that.
But now I am starting to realize that, because I activated that fetch he has a new chance at responding to Kor Spiritdancer’s draw trigger, simply because we must go through a round of “I pass priority, you now have it, what do you do?” for each item on the stack. Yep.I guess the question here is, can you explain to me how this situation should play out? Assuming I took the actions I described.
Did what I (EDIT: And Natedogg) wrote above do the trick?
And then offer any advice on how to best play around that Lantern Control lock - (valid advice would include: “accept your fate that you are playing against Lantern Control and you have almost no out given the facts you described”)
Please refrain from directly asking for strategy advice in this forum.
The best answer I can give you from a strict rules standpoint is that your opponent's Codex Shredders can be activated any time they have priority. You can say the same about your one fetchland, but you can't say the same about casting an aura spell, which normally can only be done on an empty stack.
I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
At the time of the match I was (very likely mistakenly) convinced that: because my opponent said okay (passed priority) on the resolution of the Kor Spiritdancer draw and then again on the fetch land activation, that meant he has now given up his chance to respond to a new card flipping up.
Note: If you gave your opponent a chance to respond to the Spiritdancer trigger and he declined, strictly speaking you have already declined to respond to the trigger yourself with your fetchland.
The player who had priority when a player casts a spell or activates an ability gets priority first after the spell/ability is first cast/activated. Normally, this is shortcut to a pass for the opponent to respond; if you want to respond to your own spell/ability, you need to explicitly hold priority in a tournament setting. (eg, "Cast Hyena Umbra on Slippery Bogle. In response to Spiritdancer trigger, ...") Your description of the game in question is a little bit ambiguous on this point.
If you didn't hold priority and your opponent didn't respond to Spiritdancer, then Spiritdancer's trigger should have resolved with you drawing the Forest. If you held priority to activate your fetchland, your opponent hasn't yet had the opportunity to even decide if they want to respond to the Spiritdancer trigger or not.
I was on Bogles (lol, right?) and my opponent had a Lantern of Insight and x2 Codex Shredder untapped and in play.
On top of my library was a useless Forest. I had a Kor Spiritdancer in play. My plan was to use the Spiritdancer’s draw ability to attempt to dig beyond that Forest on top my deck. Using a fetch to remove that Forest.
I decided to cast a Hyena Umbra targeting my Slippery Bogle to trigger Kor Spiritdancer’s draw ability. With that trigger on the stack I cracked one of my fetch lands to shuffle away the Forest on top my deck.
I asked my opponent for a response. He declined, which resolved the fetch land ability. The forest shuffles away and up pops a Nature's Claim on top of my library. Now I am wanting my Kor Spiritdancer draw ability, next on the stack, to resolve. But this, of course, is where my opponent decides to activate the Codex Shredder to mill it. I assume he can do this even though he had no response to the initial trigger of Kor Spiritdancer and also had no response to my fetch, because before anything resolves we need to go through both passes of priority, myself and then my opponent, yes?
Assuming yes, he mills it away and then up flips another good card, lets say a Stony Silence. Now, with the Kor Spiritdancer’s ability yet again still waiting to resolve he has priority again to activate another ability to mill this as well?
I imagine this is just the power of the Lantern Control lock that I need to get used to?
At the time of the match I was (very likely mistakenly) convinced that: because my opponent said okay (passed priority) on the resolution of the Kor Spiritdancer draw and then again on the fetch land activation, that meant he has now given up his chance to respond to a new card flipping up. You can’t really respond to something like your top library card being revealed. (While we’re on that topic, you cannot respond to mana being tapped either, yes?)
But now I am starting to realize that, because I activated that fetch he has a new chance at responding to Kor Spiritdancer’s draw trigger, simply because we must go through a round of “I pass priority, you now have it, what do you do?” for each item on the stack.
I guess the question here is, can you explain to me how this situation should play out? Assuming I took the actions I described.
And then offer any advice on how to best play around that Lantern Control lock - (valid advice would include: “accept your fate that you are playing against Lantern Control and you have almost no out given the facts you described”)
Thank you for taking the time.
Scientists have calculated that the chance of anything so patently absurd actually existing are millions to one. But magicians have calculated that million-to-one chances crop up nine times out of ten.
Yes. After the the first activation of Shredder resolves, both players must get priority again before the next object on the stack (Spiritdancer's ability) resolves. The game doesn't let the topmost object on the stack resolve until all players have passed priority in succession, denying to do anything else in response to it.Many wouldn't consider that a rules question, but yeah, I guess so. Correct, you can't respond to those things, but you can respond to something else still on the stack after the game state has changed. The rules are designed to allow that.
Did what I (EDIT: And Natedogg) wrote above do the trick?
Please refrain from directly asking for strategy advice in this forum.
The best answer I can give you from a strict rules standpoint is that your opponent's Codex Shredders can be activated any time they have priority. You can say the same about your one fetchland, but you can't say the same about casting an aura spell, which normally can only be done on an empty stack.
Sorry for asking for strategy advice and also asking questions that are not strictly rules questions.
This helps my understanding.
The player who had priority when a player casts a spell or activates an ability gets priority first after the spell/ability is first cast/activated. Normally, this is shortcut to a pass for the opponent to respond; if you want to respond to your own spell/ability, you need to explicitly hold priority in a tournament setting. (eg, "Cast Hyena Umbra on Slippery Bogle. In response to Spiritdancer trigger, ...") Your description of the game in question is a little bit ambiguous on this point.
If you didn't hold priority and your opponent didn't respond to Spiritdancer, then Spiritdancer's trigger should have resolved with you drawing the Forest. If you held priority to activate your fetchland, your opponent hasn't yet had the opportunity to even decide if they want to respond to the Spiritdancer trigger or not.
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