Yesterday we encountered something in my EDH playgroup that we haven't really thought about before.
1. I had Mystic Remora on the battlefield and another player played Timetwister. What happens? Mystic Remora says "succesfully cast" which means Timetwister would have to resolve before the trigger thus giving me the card (if the opponent doesn't pay 4) after the wheel effect. Or how does it work?
2. An opponent had Ethersworn Canonist on the battlefield. Another opponent plays Jace, the Mind Sculptor, I counter it with Mana Drain. Can the player who cast Jace recounter me? And if he does, doesn't that make Jace fizzle?
Yesterday we encountered something in my EDH playgroup that we haven't really thought about before.
1. I had Mystic Remora on the battlefield and another player played Timetwister. What happens? Mystic Remora says "succesfully cast" which means Timetwister would have to resolve before the trigger thus giving me the card (if the opponent doesn't pay 4) after the wheel effect. Or how does it work?
Successfully cast doea not mean resolve. It just means you go through the process of casting the spell. This has been clarified in the updated wording for the Remora.
Whenever an opponent casts a noncreature spell, you may draw a card unless that player pays 4.
2. An opponent had Ethersworn Canonist on the battlefield. Another opponent plays Jace, the Mind Sculptor, I counter it with Mana Drain. Can the player who cast Jace recounter me? And if he does, doesn't that make Jace fizzle?
He has already cast his one spell in Jace the game is going to stop him from even starting the process of casting a new spell.
I hope someone can and will answer this. Thanks in advance.
EDIT: And I dont know what happened with the title.
Again he has cast his one spell, the game won't let him cast cyclonic rift, it will be randomised with the rest of the cards that were revealed and go on the bottom of his library.
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1. Always use the Oracle (official, up-to-date) text, especially for older cards. You'll find it in most card databases, including the one you access if you click (not just hover) on the card link that the card tags generate. Mystic Remora's Oracle text just says "cast"; the term "successfully" is never used anymore, it's a relic of ancient times where the stack didn't exist. The Remora will trigger when Timetwister is cast, and the trigger goes on the stack above the spell and resolves first. So you would draw the card before Timetwister happens.
2. No they can't, they've already cast a nonartifact spell this turn (Jace).
3. No, they just can't cast Cyclonic Rift, because they've already cast a nonartifact spell this turn (Skyshroud Claim). The Rift will go to the bottom of the player's library with the other cards that were exiled to reach it.
As a general note covering all this, the action of casting a spell is defined as such :
Quote from Comprehensive rules glossary »
To take a card from where it is (usually the hand), put it on the stack, and pay its costs, so that it will eventually resolve and have its effect. See rule 601, "Casting Spells."
A spell doesn't need to have resolved to have been cast. Casting is just the process of putting it on the stack legally. Once that's done, the spell has been officially cast, that's all that things like Mystic Remora need to trigger, and that's all that things like Ethersworn Canonist need to apply.
I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
But the old Ethersworn Canonist says played, thats what threw me off. I thought played = succesfully cast? I dont know how to make it the Shard of Alara version.
I can see how you are right when its changed to cast, and thanks for the answer. But I am still confused about the played vs. cast vs. succesfully cast.
Yesterday we encountered something in my EDH playgroup that we haven't really thought about before.
1. I had Mystic Remora on the battlefield and another player played Timetwister. What happens? Mystic Remora says "succesfully cast" which means Timetwister would have to resolve before the trigger thus giving me the card (if the opponent doesn't pay 4) after the wheel effect. Or how does it work?
2. An opponent had Ethersworn Canonist on the battlefield. Another opponent plays Jace, the Mind Sculptor, I counter it with Mana Drain. Can the player who cast Jace recounter me? And if he does, doesn't that make Jace fizzle?
But the old Ethersworn Canonist says played, thats what threw me off. I thought played = succesfully cast? I dont know how to make it the Shard of Alara version.
I can see now that, you are of course right, and thanks for the answer. But I am still confused about the played vs. cast vs. succesfully cast.
Played in this context is the same as saying cast which is why they updated the wording in later printings. Something is cast when its costs are paid and it is placed onto the stack for people to respond to before eventually resolving. I think your issue is all the old wording that isn't used anymore is throwing you off. Basically with Ethersworn Canonist if someone has cast any non-artifact spell (whether it has resolved or not) they cannot cast any more that turn.
But the old Ethersworn Canonist says played, thats what threw me off. I thought played = succesfully cast? I dont know how to make it the Shard of Alara version.
I can see how you are right when its changed to cast, and thanks for the answer. But I am still confused about the played vs. cast vs. succesfully cast.
Again, Oracle text. Etherswon Canonist says "cast", and as far as the rules are concerned, every version says "cast" no matter what's written on the cardboard you have. But even when it said "play", that was the same thing. For a long time, the verb "cast" wasn't in use and the verb "play" was used instead, but it meant the same thing, i.e. just legally putting the card on the stack and paying its costs. "Play" was changed back to "cast" for the action of casting nonlands cards in 2009 at the time of the Magic 2010 core set.
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I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
Okay, I was always on the assumption that played meant it had to resolve. So its safe to say that played is always = cast. Thanks for the answers.
It might have. the meaning of the word "played" has changed a lot over the years, sometimes on creatures it means "entered the battlefield under your control" for things that say "for each X you have played this turn" and it had a meaning for spells, and a different meaning for lands. More recently they changed all contexts to mean "Put onto the battlefield if it is a land, put onto the stack if it is a spell". But it was still a little confusing so they made a final flavorful change which is represented on the latest version (oracle text) of cards like Mystic Remora and Ethersworn Cannonist.
Okay, I was always on the assumption that played meant it had to resolve.
That was never right. This is what "play" as a verb meant before the M2010 Rules Changes:
land card
305. Lands
305.1. A player who has priority may play a land card from his or her hand during a main phase of his
or her turn when the stack is empty. Playing a land is a special action; it doesn’t use the stack (see
rule 115). Rather, the player simply puts the land onto the battlefield. Since the land doesn’t go on
the stack, it is never a spell, and players can’t respond to it with instants or activated abilities.
I haven't checked whether the rule number was 305.1 before than. In any case, that didn't change.
non-land card
We now use "cast" for this, although "play" is a synonym in this case.
Also, note that "successfully cast" was never a synonym for "resolve". Instead, under the timing rules prior to the Classic Edition Letter, it meant that any counterspells or anything else that might target the spell are all done and resolved, and now normal (e.g., instant) responses can be played.
activated ability
We now use "activate" for this.
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Why bother with mere rulings when so many answers can be found in the Rules?
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Yesterday we encountered something in my EDH playgroup that we haven't really thought about before.
1. I had Mystic Remora on the battlefield and another player played Timetwister. What happens? Mystic Remora says "succesfully cast" which means Timetwister would have to resolve before the trigger thus giving me the card (if the opponent doesn't pay 4) after the wheel effect. Or how does it work?
2. An opponent had Ethersworn Canonist on the battlefield. Another opponent plays Jace, the Mind Sculptor, I counter it with Mana Drain. Can the player who cast Jace recounter me? And if he does, doesn't that make Jace fizzle?
3. An opponent had Ethersworn Canonist on the battlefield. Another opponent attack with Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder. He now casts Skyshroud Claim cascading into Cyclonic Rift. Is he allowed to choose which one he would like to resolve and thus making the other one fizzle?
I hope someone can and will answer this. Thanks in advance.
EDIT: And I dont know what happened with the title.
Successfully cast doea not mean resolve. It just means you go through the process of casting the spell. This has been clarified in the updated wording for the Remora.
He has already cast his one spell in Jace the game is going to stop him from even starting the process of casting a new spell.
Again he has cast his one spell, the game won't let him cast cyclonic rift, it will be randomised with the rest of the cards that were revealed and go on the bottom of his library.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
2. No they can't, they've already cast a nonartifact spell this turn (Jace).
3. No, they just can't cast Cyclonic Rift, because they've already cast a nonartifact spell this turn (Skyshroud Claim). The Rift will go to the bottom of the player's library with the other cards that were exiled to reach it.
As a general note covering all this, the action of casting a spell is defined as such : A spell doesn't need to have resolved to have been cast. Casting is just the process of putting it on the stack legally. Once that's done, the spell has been officially cast, that's all that things like Mystic Remora need to trigger, and that's all that things like Ethersworn Canonist need to apply.
I can see how you are right when its changed to cast, and thanks for the answer. But I am still confused about the played vs. cast vs. succesfully cast.
1. Look at the oracle text on mystic remora, it only requires a non creature spell to be cast so the trigger would resolve before the timetwister.
2. He already cast Jace, so no he cannot cast a spell to counter the mana drain.
3. No. The claim is put on the stack which triggers the yidris, but you've already cast the claim so you cannot choose to cast the rift.
Played in this context is the same as saying cast which is why they updated the wording in later printings. Something is cast when its costs are paid and it is placed onto the stack for people to respond to before eventually resolving. I think your issue is all the old wording that isn't used anymore is throwing you off. Basically with Ethersworn Canonist if someone has cast any non-artifact spell (whether it has resolved or not) they cannot cast any more that turn.
I haven't checked whether the rule number was 305.1 before than. In any case, that didn't change.
Also, note that "successfully cast" was never a synonym for "resolve". Instead, under the timing rules prior to the Classic Edition Letter, it meant that any counterspells or anything else that might target the spell are all done and resolved, and now normal (e.g., instant) responses can be played.