With eldrazi displacer out, their opponent has a blade of the bloodchief attached to a creature. If a creature dies first, then eldrazi displacer uses its ability on the equipped creature before the dying resolves (before combat damage resolves but after it's assigned, or...is the act of something being placed in the graveyard responsive?), does it prevent the counters from being applied to that equipped creature?
Yes. The creature would leave and return unequipped, so Blade would not be able to add a counter.
I just want to clarify that this does not apply to all triggered abilities. It applies here because the ability is specific to the equipped creature, and when the creature re-enters, it has no memory of being equipped, and Blade checks and sees there is no equipped creature. If it were a more generic trigger, like "target player loses one life", the trigger would still resolve, despite the creature being blinked.
Alright good to know, thanks. Although it still doesn't resolve my original thought. Let's say hypothetically, the equipment stayed attached to the creature even after it was removed from the game. Would the equipped creature being in a different zone after the stack resolves be enough to prevent it from gaining counters? That's the more important mechanic I don't understand.
Dying doesn't resolve, it is nothing that can be responded to. You can only respond to objects on the stack, wich means only spells, activated abilities and mana abilities (and the ater two only if they are not amana abilities). Those may cause a creature to die, but the event of dying itself doesn't use the stack.
But yes. If you activate the Displacer in response to the Blade's triggered ability, no counters will be placed on the creature. Because that creature no longer exists. For the game, the creature that returned from exile is a entirely new object, that just looks very similar to the one that left a moment ago. It also won't have the Blade attached as only the creature was exiled not the equipment.
Alright good to know, thanks. Although it still doesn't resolve my original thought. Let's say hypothetically, the equipment stayed attached to the creature even after it was removed from the game. Would the equipped creature being in a different zone after the stack resolves be enough to prevent it from gaining counters? That's the more important mechanic I don't understand.
The stack doesn't resolve. Objects on the stack resolve, one at a time, with all players getting a chance to respond in between.
My previous answer still holds, for the same reason. The returning creature is a different object with no relation to the one that left. The trigger would be unable to find the creature that it's supposed to put counters on and would do nothing.
Edit:
If the equipment were exiled and returned as well, it too, would be a different object. So even if it returned attached, the trigger cannot find a creature that is or was equipped by the equipment it originated from.
Alright good to know, thanks. Although it still doesn't resolve my original thought. Let's say hypothetically, the equipment stayed attached to the creature even after it was removed from the game. Would the equipped creature being in a different zone after the stack resolves be enough to prevent it from gaining counters? That's the more important mechanic I don't understand.
The stack doesn't resolve. Objects on the stack resolve, one at a time, with all players getting a chance to respond in between.
My previous answer still holds, for the same reason. The returning creature is a different object with no relation to the one that left. The trigger would be unable to find the creature that it's supposed to put counters on and would do nothing.
Okay, that helps. But because of that answer, it suddenly seems like order doesn't matter at all in the stack. If the combat damage that would kill a creature was assigned first...it should resolve first as it says in the rules under 608.1...so how does anything in magic even resolve defensively? How is it even possible for a counterspell to work if whatever is played first resolves first? I just don't see the mechanic that would allow me to answer this kind of question on my own in the future. What's the point of having any order on a stack if the order doesn't actually matter and everything resolves all at once?
Because whatever is played first resolves last. The stack operates with what's known as LIFO (Last In First Out), whatever is on top of the stack resolves after all players pass priority in succession. If you respond to something on the stack, your response is put on top of that something and thus resolves before the thing you're responding to.
Note, that combat damage is not something that can be responded to, as it doesn't use the stack either. It happens as part of the combat damage step's turn based action at the very beginning of that step. And players can do nothing during that step until that turn based action is finished (all creatures in combat having assigned and dealt combat damage), state based actions have been performed (like destroying all creatures that have received lethal damage) and triggers have been put on the stack (like the Blade's trigger).
If yu want to cast/activate something after blockers have been declared but before comat damage is dealt, you have to do that during the ddeclare blockers step, after that step's turn based action (declaring blockers).
I think it needs to pointed out that the Blades ability triggers whenever a creature dies whether its equipped to a creature or not. So every time a creature dies it ability will trigger. But since counter(s) can't be placed on nothing then no counter(s) are added.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOut of the ground,I rise to grace...W BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
Because whatever is played first resolves last. The stack operates with what's known as LIFO (Last In First Out), whatever is on top of the stack resolves after all players pass priority in succession. If you respond to something on the stack, your response is put on top of that something and thus resolves before the thing you're responding to.
Note, that combat damage is not something that can be responded to, as it doesn't use the stack either. It happens as part of the combat damage step's turn based action at the very beginning of that step. And players can do nothing during that step until that turn based action is finished (all creatures in combat having assigned and dealt combat damage), state based actions have been performed (like destroying all creatures that have received lethal damage) and triggers have been put on the stack (like the Blade's trigger).
If yu want to cast/activate something after blockers have been declared but before comat damage is dealt, you have to do that during the ddeclare blockers step, after that step's turn based action (declaring blockers).
So I think what you're trying to say is that because a triggered ability is something that goes on the stack, like from blade of the bloodchief, and whatever the last thing was is what resolves first, that the displacer ability resolves before the counters can trigger, but there's no way this ability could respond to combat damage being assigned.
A triggered ability can be responded to, yes. But you still seem to no quite get it. Basically, there are three parts to a triggered ability:
1) The trigger event occurs and the ability triggers. But it does nothing at this point!
2) The next time a player would receive priority, all triggered abilities that have triggered and are still waiting to be put on the stack, go on the stack. This is the part after which you can respond to have something happen before the trigger takes effect.
3) When the trigger is the the top object on the stack and all players have passed priority in succession, it resolves and has its effect(s).
So the Displacer's ability, if activated after step 2) but before step 3) (what's commonly refered to as responding to it), is still activated after the ability triggered, but it gets to resolve before it.
Since combat damage is assigned and dealt during the combat damage step's turn based action, and state based actions are checked right afterwards, you cannot activate the Displacer before the Blade's trigger due to a creature's death is put on the stack. But you can activate it before that trigger resolves. To prevent the trigger altogether, you would have to activate the Displacer to blink the death candidate some time before the combat damage step, so in the declare blockers step at the latest. That way, the creature is removed from combat and will neither deal nor receive combat damage.
before combat damage resolves but after it's assigned,
I belive that it is important to point out here that Combat damage no longer goes to the stack so you can no longer respond to it before it resolves but after it's assigned.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I just want to clarify that this does not apply to all triggered abilities. It applies here because the ability is specific to the equipped creature, and when the creature re-enters, it has no memory of being equipped, and Blade checks and sees there is no equipped creature. If it were a more generic trigger, like "target player loses one life", the trigger would still resolve, despite the creature being blinked.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
But yes. If you activate the Displacer in response to the Blade's triggered ability, no counters will be placed on the creature. Because that creature no longer exists. For the game, the creature that returned from exile is a entirely new object, that just looks very similar to the one that left a moment ago. It also won't have the Blade attached as only the creature was exiled not the equipment.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
The stack doesn't resolve. Objects on the stack resolve, one at a time, with all players getting a chance to respond in between.
My previous answer still holds, for the same reason. The returning creature is a different object with no relation to the one that left. The trigger would be unable to find the creature that it's supposed to put counters on and would do nothing.
Edit:
If the equipment were exiled and returned as well, it too, would be a different object. So even if it returned attached, the trigger cannot find a creature that is or was equipped by the equipment it originated from.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
Okay, that helps. But because of that answer, it suddenly seems like order doesn't matter at all in the stack. If the combat damage that would kill a creature was assigned first...it should resolve first as it says in the rules under 608.1...so how does anything in magic even resolve defensively? How is it even possible for a counterspell to work if whatever is played first resolves first? I just don't see the mechanic that would allow me to answer this kind of question on my own in the future. What's the point of having any order on a stack if the order doesn't actually matter and everything resolves all at once?
Note, that combat damage is not something that can be responded to, as it doesn't use the stack either. It happens as part of the combat damage step's turn based action at the very beginning of that step. And players can do nothing during that step until that turn based action is finished (all creatures in combat having assigned and dealt combat damage), state based actions have been performed (like destroying all creatures that have received lethal damage) and triggers have been put on the stack (like the Blade's trigger).
If yu want to cast/activate something after blockers have been declared but before comat damage is dealt, you have to do that during the ddeclare blockers step, after that step's turn based action (declaring blockers).
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
So I think what you're trying to say is that because a triggered ability is something that goes on the stack, like from blade of the bloodchief, and whatever the last thing was is what resolves first, that the displacer ability resolves before the counters can trigger, but there's no way this ability could respond to combat damage being assigned.
1) The trigger event occurs and the ability triggers. But it does nothing at this point!
2) The next time a player would receive priority, all triggered abilities that have triggered and are still waiting to be put on the stack, go on the stack. This is the part after which you can respond to have something happen before the trigger takes effect.
3) When the trigger is the the top object on the stack and all players have passed priority in succession, it resolves and has its effect(s).
So the Displacer's ability, if activated after step 2) but before step 3) (what's commonly refered to as responding to it), is still activated after the ability triggered, but it gets to resolve before it.
Since combat damage is assigned and dealt during the combat damage step's turn based action, and state based actions are checked right afterwards, you cannot activate the Displacer before the Blade's trigger due to a creature's death is put on the stack. But you can activate it before that trigger resolves. To prevent the trigger altogether, you would have to activate the Displacer to blink the death candidate some time before the combat damage step, so in the declare blockers step at the latest. That way, the creature is removed from combat and will neither deal nor receive combat damage.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
I belive that it is important to point out here that Combat damage no longer goes to the stack so you can no longer respond to it before it resolves but after it's assigned.