According to many posts all over the rules forums across the internet, there is some confusion with how moving into the combat phase works. As I understand this is how it works.
You have priority during your main phase, you say the phrase "pass priority". If you opponent uses their priority to act, you are still in Main phase 1, but if they do not use their priority you skip straight to declare attackers, despite neither player having passed priority on an empty stack during the beginning of combat. correct?
My point is, how am I supposed to activate cards like Jade Statue & Arcum's Sleigh which only work if it is used during the beginning of combat step before I declare attackers? I am not trying to rules lawyer anyone, but they legally can only be activated during combat, and only used correctly if activated in the only combat priority i have prior to declaring attackers, which is the beginning of combat step. On MODO i can simply add a stop, what phrase am I supposed to say in paper that that doesn't move straight to declare attackers, or telegraph my play?
Rather than say "pass priority" in the main phase, you say "I pass priority until the beginning of combat step and activate Jade Statue", or a similarly worded shortcut that includes directly what and when you're doing it.
Your opponent may interrupt this shortcut, and if they do you may choose not to do the proposed action later.
You have priority during your main phase, you say the phrase "pass priority". If you opponent uses their priority to act, you are still in Main phase 1, but if they do not use their priority you skip straight to declare attackers, despite neither player having passed priority on an empty stack during the beginning of combat. correct?
"Pass priority" isn't one of the phrases that is used as the conventional shortcut that proposes passing priority until the non-active player has priority during the Beginning of Combat step. I would rule that you could use this phrase to really indicate just passing priority in your main phase, but it's going to raise some eyebrows among your opponents just because people don't usually say this.
what phrase am I supposed to say in paper that that doesn't move straight to declare attackers, or telegraph my play?
There kind of isn't one. You can say anything you want that makes it clear that you intend to do something during the Beginning of Combat step, like "I want to move to Beginning of Combat but I have something to do there", or just proposing a shortcut of "Move to Beginning of Combat where I will activate..." but those will all tip your hand to some degree or another. Really, anything that isn't "Declare attackers?"/"Move to combat" is going to sound unusual, but you're not going to dodge the default shortcut by saying those exact words and wanting them to mean something different this one time.
That telegraphs my play. I am not trying to propose a shortcut of any kind. I am just trying to legally get to that priority without telling my opponent my plays before I do them. I am trying to not be beholden to statements or shortcuts in case my opponent kills something in response and changes combat math. Would just "I pass priority until the beginning of combat step" be sufficient?
That telegraphs my play. I am not trying to propose a shortcut of any kind. I am just trying to legally get to that priority without telling my opponent my plays before I do them. I am trying to not be beholden to statements or shortcuts in case my opponent kills something in response and changes combat math. Would just "I pass priority until the beginning of combat step" be sufficient?
Yeah that is fine. You can just say , "Move to the beginning of combat step". You just have to be clear in that you are going to the combat step specifically rather than just combat.
You have priority during your main phase, you say the phrase "pass priority". If you opponent uses their priority to act, you are still in Main phase 1, but if they do not use their priority you skip straight to declare attackers, despite neither player having passed priority on an empty stack during the beginning of combat. correct?
No, that's not correct.
Quote from MTR 4.2 »
A statement such as "I'm ready for combat" or "Declare attackers?" offers to keep passing priority
until an opponent has priority in the beginning of combat step. Opponents are assumed to be acting
then unless they specify otherwise.
My point is, how am I supposed to activate cards like Jade Statue & Arcum's Sleigh which only work if it is used during the beginning of combat step before I declare attackers? I am not trying to rules lawyer anyone, but they legally can only be activated during combat, and only used correctly if activated in the only combat priority i have prior to declaring attackers, which is the beginning of combat step. On MODO i can simply add a stop, what phrase am I supposed to say in paper that that doesn't move straight to declare attackers, or telegraph my play?
Why are you concerned about "telegraphing your play"? Your opponent will be able to respond to your play no matter what - you're not going to be able to sneak it by him.
If they have mana floating, just ask if they want to spend it before you change phases.
That telegraphs my play. I am not trying to propose a shortcut of any kind. I am just trying to legally get to that priority without telling my opponent my plays before I do them. Would just "I pass priority until the beginning of combat step" be sufficient?
As a judge, I'd allow "Move to combat, I have an action in the beginning of combat step." but I'd frown and try to have a talk with you later.
Please feel free to PM me with the (off-topic) discussion about telegraphing your actions - from what I can tell it's less of a real concern and more of a "WHAT IF"
So I just read This article and I think I understand the philosophy here. Would I have to actually act in the beginning of combat if I got there? Meaning could I just go beginning of combat each turn and sometimes act and sometimes not?
Why are you concerned about "telegraphing your play"? Your opponent will be able to respond to your play no matter what - you're not going to be able to sneak it by him.
The tactical significance comes in for Arcum's Sleigh in particular since it can only be activated during the combat phase. If the NAP destroys it during the AP's main phase then they can't activate it, and if the AP uses the default shortcut where they pass priority during Beginning of Combat and the opponent doesn't respond, they also can't activate it. Vega's question is essentially, how to get at that one point where they have priority to activate the Sleigh without tipping off the opponent that the Sleigh exists (maybe there's a complicated board state and the NAP has forgotten about it) and that he intends to use it.
And like I said above, there isn't really a way to retain priority during Beginning of Combat without saying something that sounds at least a little different from usual.
As I mentioned in comment 13 of the recently closed thread about "moving to combat", the active player can cast a spell or activate an ability (including one that can be cast or activated "only during combat") during the beginning of combat step if an ability has triggered during that step, for example, Toolcraft Exemplar's ability or another ability that says "At the beginning of combat on your turn". This is because, if the active player got priority first, then passes, then the nonactive player passes while something is on the stack, the top spell or ability will resolve and the active player will get priority again (C.R. 117.4, 117.3b; see also C.R. 500.2). (Note that the active player already had priority as the beginning of combat step began [C.R. 507.2], but the tournament shortcut under M.T.R. 4.2 has that player pass priority at that point.)
EDIT (Apr. 25): See also comment 15.
EDIT (Jul. 16): Struck out part of this post.
EDIT (Jul. 29, 2022): Correctness edit; update rule citations.
Why are you concerned about "telegraphing your play"? Your opponent will be able to respond to your play no matter what - you're not going to be able to sneak it by him.
The tactical significance comes in for Arcum's Sleigh in particular since it can only be activated during the combat phase. If the NAP destroys it during the AP's main phase then they can't activate it, and if the AP uses the default shortcut where they pass priority during Beginning of Combat and the opponent doesn't respond, they also can't activate it. Vega's question is essentially, how to get at that one point where they have priority to activate the Sleigh without tipping off the opponent that the Sleigh exists (maybe there's a complicated board state and the NAP has forgotten about it) and that he intends to use it.
And like I said above, there isn't really a way to retain priority during Beginning of Combat without saying something that sounds at least a little different from usual.
The point is they don't want you gaining this type of advantage. Magic is supposed to be about tactical decisions and luck of the draw, not word smithing your way to minor advantages. The unflexability of this ruling is to eliminate confusion in international tournaments where the exact intent of phrasing may be unclear. Is there collateral damage? Yes, but it is minor. If you want to do something in combat then just say what you want to do, if they interrupt you, you aren't beholden to previous choices(just like every other short cut). And if they act in response without interrupting you then there is no difference. The Sleigh is a legitimate problem, however your opponent could have stopped you from using it anyway. Your trying to gain an advantage by ubscuring the game state, which at best is scummy and at worst cheating.
Can't you just say moving from main phase to combat phase? and then after you do that you have priority? Then you can activate and resolve triggers or abilities? then move to declare attackers step?
When your opponent starts moving their creatures to attack (or any other action past the point you want to respond to), you say "hold on, before declare attackers.."; they initiated a shortcut you did not agree with and did not give you the opportunity to use your priority but clearly passed on their own priority.
If they ask "go to declare attackers?" they also shortcut through their own priority, but now you can respond in time as well.
The Magic Tournament Rules on this matter have changed in Amonkhet. Once those rules go into effect on April 28, in sanctioned tournaments, if the active player "passes priority during [the] first main phase" and the nonactive player "takes no action", the nonactive player will have effectively passed, so that the active player will have priority at the beginning of combat step (new M.T.R. 4.2, first bulleted item; C.R. 117.3d, 117.4, 500.1, 506.1, 507.2).
Does this mean that players must now explicitly go through beginning of combat each time unless active player wants to shortcut combat entirely?
See the section "Communication" in "Policy Changes for Amonkhet". Even in a sanctioned tournament, the active player can still propose the declaration of attackers as a shortcut (see also C.R. 720.2a).
EDIT (Jul. 15, 2018): Correctness edit; edit rule number to account for change in Dominaria.
EDIT (Jul. 29, 2022): Strike out part of this post.
You have priority during your main phase, you say the phrase "pass priority". If you opponent uses their priority to act, you are still in Main phase 1, but if they do not use their priority you skip straight to declare attackers, despite neither player having passed priority on an empty stack during the beginning of combat. correct?
My point is, how am I supposed to activate cards like Jade Statue & Arcum's Sleigh which only work if it is used during the beginning of combat step before I declare attackers? I am not trying to rules lawyer anyone, but they legally can only be activated during combat, and only used correctly if activated in the only combat priority i have prior to declaring attackers, which is the beginning of combat step. On MODO i can simply add a stop, what phrase am I supposed to say in paper that that doesn't move straight to declare attackers, or telegraph my play?
Your opponent may interrupt this shortcut, and if they do you may choose not to do the proposed action later.
There kind of isn't one. You can say anything you want that makes it clear that you intend to do something during the Beginning of Combat step, like "I want to move to Beginning of Combat but I have something to do there", or just proposing a shortcut of "Move to Beginning of Combat where I will activate..." but those will all tip your hand to some degree or another. Really, anything that isn't "Declare attackers?"/"Move to combat" is going to sound unusual, but you're not going to dodge the default shortcut by saying those exact words and wanting them to mean something different this one time.
Yeah that is fine. You can just say , "Move to the beginning of combat step". You just have to be clear in that you are going to the combat step specifically rather than just combat.
No, that's not correct.
Why are you concerned about "telegraphing your play"? Your opponent will be able to respond to your play no matter what - you're not going to be able to sneak it by him.
If they have mana floating, just ask if they want to spend it before you change phases.
As a judge, I'd allow "Move to combat, I have an action in the beginning of combat step." but I'd frown and try to have a talk with you later.
Please feel free to PM me with the (off-topic) discussion about telegraphing your actions - from what I can tell it's less of a real concern and more of a "WHAT IF"
And like I said above, there isn't really a way to retain priority during Beginning of Combat without saying something that sounds at least a little different from usual.
, but the tournament shortcut under M.T.R. 4.2 has that player pass priority at that point.)EDIT (Apr. 25): See also comment 15.
EDIT (Jul. 16): Struck out part of this post.
EDIT (Jul. 29, 2022): Correctness edit; update rule citations.
If they ask "go to declare attackers?" they also shortcut through their own priority, but now you can respond in time as well.
EDIT (Jul. 29, 2022): Update rule citations.
(see also C.R. 720.2a).EDIT (Jul. 15, 2018): Correctness edit; edit rule number to account for change in Dominaria.
EDIT (Jul. 29, 2022): Strike out part of this post.