If I have something like a germ token or other creature that would be 0/0 or less on entering the battlefield but have something like Cathars' Crusade in play what happens? Does the creature die based on state based actions before counters can be put on it or if the effect would give it enough counters to survive would it live?
I'm not great with the timing rules (I should probably play magic online to understand them better (and improve at drafting) but I enjoy the social component so much and lose that online) so this is probably a very obvious question.
State-based actions are always checked before any triggered abilities can even be put on the stack. Your 0/0 would trigger Cathars' Crusade, but it would die long before getting counters from it.
State-based actions are pretty much applied at every relevant point in the game, except while a spell or ability is resolving. Triggered abilities also can't be put on the stack while something is resolving (though they can trigger, and will wait until the thing is done resolving to be put on the stack). First state-based actions are checked, then triggered abilities are put on the stack.
I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
If you can somehow get a 0/0 creature onto the battlefield (such as a Hangarback Walker where X=0), Cathars' Crusade will trigger. Immediately after before that trigger is put onto the stack, before a player gets priority, State Based Actions are checked and it will see that Hangarback is a 0/0 so it will die before the trigger ever gets a chance to resolve.
However, if you have a Master Biomancer, this introduces a replacement effect rather than a trigger so Master Biomancer replaces how the creature enters the battlefield. This will allow a Hangarback cast for 0 mana to enter with 2 counters on it (assuming Biomancer's power is only 2).
WizardMN posted what I was going to post. Triggered ability = state based effects kill your X/-Y creature. Replacement ability = it has a chance to live.
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I was wondering the same thing but about other cards like Festercreep being persisted thanks to the Cauldron of souls, he would come in as a 0/0, and Cathars' Crusade would trigger but not resolve ? or does it resolve for the other creatures ?
The Crusade will trigger, and eventually resolve to give all creature yu control at that time a +1/+1 counter, but this will be way too late to save the 0/0 creature, which is sent to the graveyard before that trigger even makes it to the stack.
Though if there is a Bad Moon in play, during the State Based Actions the counters would cancel each other and a 1/1 without counter would be left play right ? Then Cathars' Crusade resolves and it's a 1/1 with +1/+1 .
Well, the Crusade's trigger has to be put on the stack first, wich happens after state based actions are done and all players have to pass priority in succession for it to resolve. But otherwise, yes, this is correct, you'll have a 2/2 creature.
If you can't fine a thread already asking your question you are better off starting a new thread, this one is 7 months old.
If a 0/0 creature enters the battlefield for any reason, such as Festercreep via Persist. It will trigger any and all abilities that look for creatures entering the battlefield, such as Cathars' Crusade. Before those triggers make it to the stack the creature will be put into the graveyard for having 0 or less toughness, then the triggers will go on the stack and resolve as normal. If in the above situation Bad Moon had been out, then the Creep would enter as a 1/1 with a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter. Abilities would trigger as normal and before they make it to the stack the counters would destroy eachother, leaving you with a 1/1 creep, then the abilities go on the stack and resolve as normal. In the original example(creep with persist) the 0/0 creep still enters with the two types of counters, but before you get the chance to do anything the creep is sent to the graveyard and the counters are removed. These happen simultaneously so any effect looking to see if it had any kind of counters will see that it had both kinds of counters. For instance if you had Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Night of Souls' Betrayal out the creep wouldn't come back because it had a +1/+1 counter when it died.
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I'm not great with the timing rules (I should probably play magic online to understand them better (and improve at drafting) but I enjoy the social component so much and lose that online) so this is probably a very obvious question.
Thanks,
Justin
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StaffState-based actions are pretty much applied at every relevant point in the game, except while a spell or ability is resolving. Triggered abilities also can't be put on the stack while something is resolving (though they can trigger, and will wait until the thing is done resolving to be put on the stack). First state-based actions are checked, then triggered abilities are put on the stack.
afterbefore that trigger is put onto the stack, before a player gets priority, State Based Actions are checked and it will see that Hangarback is a 0/0 so it will die before the trigger ever gets a chance to resolve.However, if you have a Master Biomancer, this introduces a replacement effect rather than a trigger so Master Biomancer replaces how the creature enters the battlefield. This will allow a Hangarback cast for 0 mana to enter with 2 counters on it (assuming Biomancer's power is only 2).
The Crusade will trigger, and eventually resolve to give all creature yu control at that time a +1/+1 counter, but this will be way too late to save the 0/0 creature, which is sent to the graveyard before that trigger even makes it to the stack.
Well, the Crusade's trigger has to be put on the stack first, wich happens after state based actions are done and all players have to pass priority in succession for it to resolve. But otherwise, yes, this is correct, you'll have a 2/2 creature.
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If a 0/0 creature enters the battlefield for any reason, such as Festercreep via Persist. It will trigger any and all abilities that look for creatures entering the battlefield, such as Cathars' Crusade. Before those triggers make it to the stack the creature will be put into the graveyard for having 0 or less toughness, then the triggers will go on the stack and resolve as normal. If in the above situation Bad Moon had been out, then the Creep would enter as a 1/1 with a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter. Abilities would trigger as normal and before they make it to the stack the counters would destroy eachother, leaving you with a 1/1 creep, then the abilities go on the stack and resolve as normal. In the original example(creep with persist) the 0/0 creep still enters with the two types of counters, but before you get the chance to do anything the creep is sent to the graveyard and the counters are removed. These happen simultaneously so any effect looking to see if it had any kind of counters will see that it had both kinds of counters. For instance if you had Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Night of Souls' Betrayal out the creep wouldn't come back because it had a +1/+1 counter when it died.