I had 2 Force Of Wills in my hand (and 2 blue cards) and wanted to think about the situation before I made my move.
A couple seconds later, he goes straight to activating Sundial Of The Infinite which is where I said something about how I wanted to respond (since I was thinking).
At the time he said it was too late and that I was just waiting to see if he would have played a Stifle.
Either way, he never said something like "Is there a response?" or "Is this okay?".
I never said anything as well seeing I was thinking, but doesn't a player always have the option to respond to something before moving on?
My guess is I would be able to Force Of Will his Phyrexian Dreadnought because he was just moving too quickly and not allowing me time to think...
Is that how would this situation play out?
Is there a responsibility for one or both players to immediately say something?
The Dreadnought spell doesn't resolve until you acknowledge in some way that it does (at worst, if he didn't ask for responses because he assumed you had no counter, it could be simply by letting him continue his sequence without saying anything, but you don't have to let him). If your opponent doesn't directly ask for responses, and assumes Dreadnought has resolved and goes to respond to its enter-the-battlefield trigger, it's your full right to back him up, and that's the end of it.
His "You were just waiting to see if I'd cast Stifle" argument doesn't cut it. Not only is it unlikely you'd plan that if he already has Sundial to counter Dreadnought's trigger, but even if that's what really what you wanted to do, you would have needed to verbally confirm that Dreadnought resolved first. And if he's in doubt about your responses, he should ask.
I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
Unless you've explicitly passed priority, if he does that, the end the turn trigger goes on the stack on top of the dreadnought. I'm pretty sure a judge would rule he's countered his own spell.
If you've been playing the whole match in silent mode (ie, not acknowledging that things resolve, countering quickly, etc) this is a lot more difficult to judge.
Yes you get priority to do things, but you need to communicate the fact that you're thinking - especially if you've been silently letting things resolve up till now.
Your opponent should also have said something like "resolves?" instead of trying to play Gotcha!
Unless you've explicitly passed priority, if he does that, the end the turn trigger goes on the stack on top of the dreadnought. I'm pretty sure a judge would rule he's countered his own spell.
Unlikely. The Dreadnought player intended to activate Sundial in response to the trigger, and a judge shouldn't force a different timing, the timing would instead be clarified and the game would be backed up before the Dreadnought's resolution and the Sundial activation if it's determined ReANiMaToR1's priority was wrongly bypassed.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
If you've been playing the whole match in silent mode (ie, not acknowledging that things resolve, countering quickly, etc) this is a lot more difficult to judge.
Yeah I agree, however this wasn't the first time we played and he knew I was running counterspells.
This play was also the make or break of the game, so rushing through and assuming it resolved wasn't very logical at that specific time.
If you've been playing the whole match in silent mode (ie, not acknowledging that things resolve, countering quickly, etc) this is a lot more difficult to judge.
Yeah I agree, however this wasn't the first time we played and he knew I was running counterspells.
This play was also the make or break of the game, so rushing through and assuming it resolved wasn't very logical at that specific time.
Your opponent should also have said something like "resolves?" instead of trying to play Gotcha!
Exactly, and I'm glad I could clarify the ruling of the play from this thread
I just want to emphasize that it's on *both* players to make sure each one knows what's going on.
No matter how many times you've played, playing silently is a bad thing. Communication is a good thing.
All you have to say is "Hang on." before you start thinking.
And if he gave you a few seconds it was likely what he'd been giving all match so his assumption was that you didn't need any more time than before.
Basically, because of the way you quoted me I'm concerned that you're taking away "He messed up.". That's not the case. Both players messed up and need to fix behavior.
Warning failing to communicate to both players followed by a back up if I met this in a competetetive REL. A back up and explanation if it was on an FNM.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
Warning failing to communicate to both players followed by a back up if I met this in a competetetive REL. A back up and explanation if it was on an FNM.
I had 2 Force Of Wills in my hand (and 2 blue cards) and wanted to think about the situation before I made my move.
A couple seconds later, he goes straight to activating Sundial Of The Infinite which is where I said something about how I wanted to respond (since I was thinking).
At the time he said it was too late and that I was just waiting to see if he would have played a Stifle.
Either way, he never said something like "Is there a response?" or "Is this okay?".
I never said anything as well seeing I was thinking, but doesn't a player always have the option to respond to something before moving on?
My guess is I would be able to Force Of Will his Phyrexian Dreadnought because he was just moving too quickly and not allowing me time to think...
Is that how would this situation play out?
Is there a responsibility for one or both players to immediately say something?
His "You were just waiting to see if I'd cast Stifle" argument doesn't cut it. Not only is it unlikely you'd plan that if he already has Sundial to counter Dreadnought's trigger, but even if that's what really what you wanted to do, you would have needed to verbally confirm that Dreadnought resolved first. And if he's in doubt about your responses, he should ask.
As it appeared my opponent just seemed to be a little bitter by refusing to let me Force Of Will the Phyrexian Dreadnought.
Yes you get priority to do things, but you need to communicate the fact that you're thinking - especially if you've been silently letting things resolve up till now.
Your opponent should also have said something like "resolves?" instead of trying to play Gotcha!
Yeah I agree, however this wasn't the first time we played and he knew I was running counterspells.
This play was also the make or break of the game, so rushing through and assuming it resolved wasn't very logical at that specific time.
Exactly, and I'm glad I could clarify the ruling of the play from this thread
I just want to emphasize that it's on *both* players to make sure each one knows what's going on.
No matter how many times you've played, playing silently is a bad thing. Communication is a good thing.
All you have to say is "Hang on." before you start thinking.
And if he gave you a few seconds it was likely what he'd been giving all match so his assumption was that you didn't need any more time than before.
Basically, because of the way you quoted me I'm concerned that you're taking away "He messed up.". That's not the case. Both players messed up and need to fix behavior.
I assume you mean Tournament Error - Communication Policy Violation? Doesn't apply here.
The most you could do would be Game Play Error - Game Rule Violation for AP for not passing priority, but realistically the best option would be to allow NAP his time to think and caution both players to communicate more.