He is saying he will still get to use the Sidisi token's exploit trigger even though state-based actions will make him choose one to keep (because legendary rule).
Is this correct?
I was under the impression that as soon as the token is generated, state-based actions are checked and he must choose which Sidisi to keep BEFORE any triggered abilities hit the stack.
Basically my argument to him was that making a token of Sidisi is pointless because the token will die due to state based actions.
He is saying he will still get to use the Sidisi token's exploit trigger even though state-based actions will make him choose one to keep (because legendary rule).
Is this correct?
I was under the impression that as soon as the token is generated, state-based actions are checked and he must choose which Sidisi to keep BEFORE any triggered abilities hit the stack.
Basically my argument to him was that making a token of Sidisi is pointless because the token will die due to state based actions.
Just need some clarification. Thanks!
Yes the Sidisi tokem will die but he still can sacrifice another creature for the exploit and tutor
Yes the Sidisi tokem will die but he still can sacrifice another creature for the exploit and tutor
This is incorrect. If he chooses to keep the original Sidisi and put the token in the graveyard because of the legend rule, sacrificing a creature to the token's exploit trigger does not allow him to tutor, because the token isn't there anymore and so its tutor trigger, which is a separate ability, doesn't exist. Exploit creatures all have two separate abilities, Exploit itself which only makes you sacrifice a creature, and another ability that triggers when you sacrifice a creature to that creature's Exploit trigger. The creature needs to still be on the battlefield as you sacrifice to its Exploit trigger for the second ability to trigger.
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I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
Yes the Sidisi tokem will die but he still can sacrifice another creature for the exploit and tutor
This is incorrect. If he chooses to keep the original Sidisi and put the token in the graveyard because of the legend rule, sacrificing a creature to the token's exploit trigger does not allow him to tutor, because the token isn't there anymore and so its tutor trigger, which is a separate ability, doesn't exist. Exploit creatures all have two separate abilities, Exploit itself which only makes you sacrifice a creature, and another ability that triggers when you sacrifice a creature to that creature's Exploit trigger. The creature needs to still be on the battlefield as you sacrifice to its Exploit trigger for the second ability to trigger.
ohh i din't know that you need to keep the exploit creature on play to trigge
r the abiltiy even if you sacrifice another.
Yes the Sidisi tokem will die but he still can sacrifice another creature for the exploit and tutor
This is incorrect. If he chooses to keep the original Sidisi and put the token in the graveyard because of the legend rule, sacrificing a creature to the token's exploit trigger does not allow him to tutor, because the token isn't there anymore and so its tutor trigger, which is a separate ability, doesn't exist. Exploit creatures all have two separate abilities, Exploit itself which only makes you sacrifice a creature, and another ability that triggers when you sacrifice a creature to that creature's Exploit trigger. The creature needs to still be on the battlefield as you sacrifice to its Exploit trigger for the second ability to trigger.
So would the exploit triggered ability from the Sidisi token hit the stack and resolve before state based actions are checked and he has to choose which copy to keep? Or would the legend rule make him put one in his graveyard before any abilities hit the stack?
So would the exploit triggered ability from the Sidisi token hit the stack and resolve before state based actions are checked and he has to choose which copy to keep? Or would the legend rule make him put one in his graveyard before any abilities hit the stack?
State-based actions, including the legend rule, are performed before triggered abilities are put on the stack.
116.5. Each time a player would get priority, the game first performs all applicable state-based actions as a single event (see rule 704, “State-Based Actions”), then repeats this process until no state-based actions are performed. Then triggered abilities are put on the stack (see rule 603, “Handling Triggered Abilities”). These steps repeat in order until no further state-based actions are performed and no abilities trigger. Then the player who would have received priority does so.
But note that the source of a triggered ability, including exploit, does not need to still be on the battlefield in order for the ability to go on the stack and eventually resolve.
112.7a Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time won’t affect the ability. Note that some abilities cause a source to do something (for example, “Prodigal Pyromancer deals 1 damage to target creature or player”) rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source because the effect needs to be divided checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both instances, if the source is no longer in the zone it’s expected to be in at that time, its last known information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists.
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Why bother with mere rulings when so many answers can be found in the Rules?
1. Sidisi attacks.
2. Mirror Mockery triggers.
3. Mockery creates a token.
4. Sidisi tokens Exploit triggers.
5. Your opponent has to put one of his Sidisi's into his/her graveyard.
6. The trigger of the exploit ability goes onto the stack.
7. When resolving, your opponent decides if he/she wants to exploit a creature.
8a. If he/she put the original Sidisi into the grave he/she may exploit a creature and the tutor ability of the token triggers.
8b. If he/she put the token Sidisi into the grave, he/she may exploit a creature, but there is no ability that can trigger from it.
He is saying he will still get to use the Sidisi token's exploit trigger even though state-based actions will make him choose one to keep (because legendary rule).
Is this correct?
I was under the impression that as soon as the token is generated, state-based actions are checked and he must choose which Sidisi to keep BEFORE any triggered abilities hit the stack.
Basically my argument to him was that making a token of Sidisi is pointless because the token will die due to state based actions.
Just need some clarification. Thanks!
Yes the Sidisi tokem will die but he still can sacrifice another creature for the exploit and tutor
ohh i din't know that you need to keep the exploit creature on play to trigge
r the abiltiy even if you sacrifice another.
So would the exploit triggered ability from the Sidisi token hit the stack and resolve before state based actions are checked and he has to choose which copy to keep? Or would the legend rule make him put one in his graveyard before any abilities hit the stack?
But note that the source of a triggered ability, including exploit, does not need to still be on the battlefield in order for the ability to go on the stack and eventually resolve.
1. Sidisi attacks.
2. Mirror Mockery triggers.
3. Mockery creates a token.
4. Sidisi tokens Exploit triggers.
5. Your opponent has to put one of his Sidisi's into his/her graveyard.
6. The trigger of the exploit ability goes onto the stack.
7. When resolving, your opponent decides if he/she wants to exploit a creature.
8a. If he/she put the original Sidisi into the grave he/she may exploit a creature and the tutor ability of the token triggers.
8b. If he/she put the token Sidisi into the grave, he/she may exploit a creature, but there is no ability that can trigger from it.
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