Basically, during my end step, he tapped Kiki Jiki to clone the Kiora's Follower, give it haste, untap Kiki Jiki, clone, untap, repeat ad infinitum. He then said that because it was done during my end step- the clone tokens wouldn't be sacrificed, and so they'd untap the next turn, and hit me for infinite. That seems wrong to me- isn't there a cleanup phase after the end step where no spells or effects can be played and all the end of turn effects resolve?
I let it go because it was a just for fun game, and I was going to get creamed anyways, but this still seems like a terrible interpretation/loophole.
Kiki's ability does not get rid of the token during the cleanup step. Kiki-Jiki's delayed goes on the stack at the beginning of the end step. If you're already in the end step, that trigger won't go on the stack until the following turn's end step. So yes, they can make all of the tokens during your end step, and the tokens will hang around until their end step, meaning they will be able to attack with the tokens.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DCI Level 2 Judge
Scientists have calculated that the chance of anything so patently absurd actually existing are millions to one. But magicians have calculated that million-to-one chances crop up nine times out of ten.
Thanks. I see it now that the errata is "beginning of end step" (He was playing a COK version, which says "end of turn"). That's a dumber than all hell rule, IMO (aren't 'sacrifice at end of turn' effects there to PREVENT THIS?), but such as it is.
Guess I should have a Encircling Fissure ready the next time.
"At end of turn" always meant "at the beginning of the end step". Kiki-Jiki's errata is only cosmetic, it always worked that way, it's just made clearer now.
Basically, during my end step, he tapped Kiki Jiki to clone the Kiora's Follower, give it haste, untap Kiki Jiki, clone, untap, repeat ad infinitum. He then said that because it was done during my end step- the clone tokens wouldn't be sacrificed, and so they'd untap the next turn, and hit me for infinite. That seems wrong to me- isn't there a cleanup phase after the end step where no spells or effects can be played and all the end of turn effects resolve?
I let it go because it was a just for fun game, and I was going to get creamed anyways, but this still seems like a terrible interpretation/loophole.
Scientists have calculated that the chance of anything so patently absurd actually existing are millions to one. But magicians have calculated that million-to-one chances crop up nine times out of ten.
Guess I should have a Encircling Fissure ready the next time.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)