Good evening. For example I have in play an Eldrazi Mimic and a Ruination Guide, then I cast a Vile Agreggate. I use the mimic to copy p/t of the aggregate. Became 3/5 because of aggregate, and then +1 power from the guide. The mimic's power and toughness is now 4/5, is that correct?
Yes. Vile Aggregate enters as a 4/5, meaning that the Mimic will turn into a 4/5.
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Yes. Vile Aggregate enters as a 4/5, meaning that the Mimic will turn into a 4/5.
Correction! It'll be a 5/5.
The Aggregate enters as a 4/5 (3 colorless creatures, +1 due to the Guide). That 4 power is what the Mimic copies for its base power, which is then further increased by the Guide to 5, making the Mimic a 5/5.
Thank you for the answers. But which is it really? 4/5 or 5/5? As you can see in my sig, I use UR eldrazi and these are cards in my deck. Would appreciate an explanation. Thank you. I playtest the deck a lot with friends.
Yes. Vile Aggregate enters as a 4/5, meaning that the Mimic will turn into a 4/5.
Correction! It'll be a 5/5.
The Aggregate enters as a 4/5 (3 colorless creatures, +1 due to the Guide). That 4 power is what the Mimic copies for its base power, which is then further increased by the Guide to 5, making the Mimic a 5/5.
Terribly sorry! I forgot to note the Power boost from Ruination Guide on the Mimic. It would be a 5/5.
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I thought, my explanation would be sufficient, but ok, more detail:
When the Vile Aggregate enters the battlefield, it enters with the power as determined by its own characteristic defining ability, as well as modified by the static effect of Ruination Guide. It is a 4/5 at any time it is on the battlefield. Since a colorless creature entered the battlefield, the Mimic triggers. When that trigger resolves, it checks that creatures power at that time (so you could even increase it further with Giant Growth for example, in time to make the Mimic stronger), taking into account only the power of the Aggregate after all continuous effects on it have been applied (hence the 4 power). The resolving trigger thus sets the base power of the Mimic to 4. But power/toughness modifying effects are applied after power/toughness setting effects, so it still benefits from the +1 from the Guide, making its power 4 (copied from the Aggregate) +1 from the Guide for a total of 5.
If an effect requires information from the game... the answer is determined only once, when the effect is applied.
In this case, the game doesn't stop looking at the creature's P/T part of the way through the layer system, but rather it looks at its entire P/T and sets the Mimic's base values to those values. So Mimic copies the creature, buffs and all, and then gets its own perks for being an Eldrazi too.
Incidentally, this is why Dismembering a creature in response to Eldrazi Mimic's trigger works. The Mimic either stays a 2/1 or probably dies (unless you're slamming something massive, in which case it just becomes less massive).
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Modern: GRB Jund BRG RBU Grixis Delver UBR Legacy: W Death & Taxes W GRB Punishing Jund BRG GUR Canadian Threshold RUG Commander: RUG Maelstrom Wanderer GUR
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Correction! It'll be a 5/5.
The Aggregate enters as a 4/5 (3 colorless creatures, +1 due to the Guide). That 4 power is what the Mimic copies for its base power, which is then further increased by the Guide to 5, making the Mimic a 5/5.
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Terribly sorry! I forgot to note the Power boost from Ruination Guide on the Mimic. It would be a 5/5.
Check out my Newborder Peasant Cube here! http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/37467
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Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
When the Vile Aggregate enters the battlefield, it enters with the power as determined by its own characteristic defining ability, as well as modified by the static effect of Ruination Guide. It is a 4/5 at any time it is on the battlefield. Since a colorless creature entered the battlefield, the Mimic triggers. When that trigger resolves, it checks that creatures power at that time (so you could even increase it further with Giant Growth for example, in time to make the Mimic stronger), taking into account only the power of the Aggregate after all continuous effects on it have been applied (hence the 4 power). The resolving trigger thus sets the base power of the Mimic to 4. But power/toughness modifying effects are applied after power/toughness setting effects, so it still benefits from the +1 from the Guide, making its power 4 (copied from the Aggregate) +1 from the Guide for a total of 5.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
In this case, the game doesn't stop looking at the creature's P/T part of the way through the layer system, but rather it looks at its entire P/T and sets the Mimic's base values to those values. So Mimic copies the creature, buffs and all, and then gets its own perks for being an Eldrazi too.
Incidentally, this is why Dismembering a creature in response to Eldrazi Mimic's trigger works. The Mimic either stays a 2/1 or probably dies (unless you're slamming something massive, in which case it just becomes less massive).
Modern:
GRB Jund BRG
RBU Grixis Delver UBR
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes W
GRB Punishing Jund BRG
GUR Canadian Threshold RUG
Commander:
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer GUR
It's ok. Thanks anyway.
@Rezzahan
Ah, yes thank you for the detailed explanation. I needed that in case rules arguments come up.
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