No, you can put the transformed Startled Awake on the battlefield just fine.
From the Cage's gatherer rulings:
The first ability checks only whether the card is a creature card in the graveyard or library. A card such as Sculpting Steel can still enter the battlefield from a graveyard or library as a copy of a creature.
Since SA is a sorcery is the graveyard, the Cage doesn't concern it. You're also not casting it.
Going from the manifest action:
Since a double-faced permanent cannot be turned face down while on the battlefield, it follows the status change occurs first while the card is still in the library and only then is put on the battlefield.
Logically then, all "enter the battlefield as other then default status" actions should first perform the status change then put the permanent on the battlefield.
If so, it follows that the card is transformed into Persistent Nightmare first and only then put onto the battlefield except that Cage won't allow that.
I admit this is somewhat technical rather than common sense thus I wouldn't feel bad if Wizard's officially disagrees.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Going from the manifest action:
Since a double-faced permanent cannot be turned face down while on the battlefield, it follows the status change occurs first while the card is still in the library and only then is put on the battlefield.
This is incorrect for a few reasons. Grafdigger's Cage has an effect that uses "card" and mentions the name of a zone, so its effect refers to cards in that zone as they exist in that zone, not as they would exist in another zone. Startled Awake is a sorcery card while in the graveyard, so it's unaffected by the restriction of Grafdigger's Cage.
109.2a If a spell or ability uses a description of an object that includes the word “card” and the name of a zone, it means a card matching that description in the stated zone.
Additionally, it's impossible for the change in status to occur while in any zone other than the battlefield. The Startled Awake enters the battlefield already transformed; there is no status change involved at all.
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How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Thought Criminal,
How does that comply with 307.4?
As you describe the event, the game would have to look into the future to ensure a sorcery is not entering the battlefield. Where in the CR is the game permitted to look ahead in time to determine action legality?
614.12. Some replacement effects modify how a permanent enters the battlefield. (See rules 614.1c–d.)
Such effects may come from the permanent itself if they affect only that permanent (as opposed to a
general subset of permanents that includes it). They may also come from other sources. To
determine which replacement effects apply and how they apply, check the characteristics of the
permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have
already modified how it enters the battlefield (see rule 616.1), continuous effects generated by the
resolution of spells or abilities that changed the permanent’s characteristics on the stack (see rule
400.7a), and continuous effects from the permanent’s own static abilities, but ignoring continuous
effects from any other source that would affect it.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Indeed, I thought about replacement effects after I made my post.
But by 614.12's own words, it only applies to replacement effects not other unrelated rules. Furthermore, 614.12 is explicit that it looks into the future.
Requiring the game to look into the future is an added complexity that I don't think should be implicitly read into a rule.
307.4 could be read as "Is a sorcery card changing zones to the battlefield? If yes, that zone change is forbidden."
Or, it could be read as "Is a card changing zones to the battlefield and will that card be a sorcery when it is on the battlefield? If yes, that zone change is forbidden."
I would suggest the first reading is simpler and therefore preferred absent an explicit command to use the more complex reading.
The rule 109.2 that tells us to interpret [characteristic] without the words card or spell after it to mean [characteristic] permanent on/entering the battlefield cannot possibly be used to interpret 307.4.
Why? Because 307.4 refers to a card type that can never, ever be a permanent. Applying the above rule means 307.4 says "sorcery permanents cannot enter the battlefield", a nonsensical result.
Listen, I'm not saying that 307.4 doesn't look into the future. I'm saying both interpretations are possible based on the wording. And I haven't seen any convincing proof that one is certainly correct and the other certainly wrong.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
Cage sees a Sculpting Steel about to enter the battlefield, that proposed action is acceptable to the Cage. The fact that the action will ultimately result in a creature entering is of no concern after the Cage gives it's consent (really refusal to prohibit).
Rule 307.4 sees a Startled Awake about to enter the battlefield, the proposed action is WTF, THAT IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.
So either Startled Awake first transforms then enters the battlefield, in which case 307.4 is happy but Cage is unhappy, OR, rule 307.4 looks into the future and can see the (nonexistent as far as the game is concerned) back side as it will look on the battlefield in the future and is happy and Cage doesn't care about sorceries.
So either Startled Awake first transforms then enters the battlefield, in which case 307.4 is happy but Cage is unhappy, OR, rule 307.4 looks into the future and can see the (nonexistent as far as the game is concerned) back side as it will look on the battlefield in the future and is happy and Cage doesn't care about sorceries.
Startled Awake can't first transform, which means that it must be the second interpretation.
Ruling to prove this:
"701.25a Only permanents represented by double-faced cards can transform. (See rule 711, “Double-Faced Cards.”) If a spell or ability instructs a player to transform any permanent that isn’t represented by a double-faced card, nothing happens."
And just in case
"110.1. A permanent is a card or token on the battlefield. A permanent remains on the battlefield indefinitely. A card or token becomes a permanent as it enters the battlefield and it stops being a permanent as it’s moved to another zone by an effect or rule."
Bolded by me for emphasis both times.
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Graham from Loading Ready Run
So cage uses the word "card" and the name of a zone "graveyard." Since sculpting steel is not a creature card in the graveyard, cage does not stop it entering as a copy of a creature.
That same ability on cage, though, also uses the name of another zone, "battlefield." So what about obzedat's aid on phyrexian metamorph copying a non-creature? The ruling makes it sound like the only thing that matters is the card as it exists in the graveyard, but wouldn't the card need to be a creature in both zones for cage to care?
Not sure if/how this relates to the OP but it seems ballpark.
No, the cage only cares about whether the card is a creature card in the graveyard (or library), see this gatherer ruling, bolded for emphasis.
4/15/2013 The first ability checks only whether the card is a creature card in the graveyard or library. A card such as Sculpting Steel can still enter the battlefield from a graveyard or library as a copy of a creature
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"If you knew anything about the lore you'd see that they were clearly hinting that the madness on Innistrad was caused by Uncle Istvan wearing Urza's Power Armor ... tainted with Phrexyian Oil"
Graham from Loading Ready Run
Question answered. We know what the official ruling is and it was explained. This has gone on long enough.
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I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
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From the Cage's gatherer rulings:
Since SA is a sorcery is the graveyard, the Cage doesn't concern it. You're also not casting it.
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Going from the manifest action:
Since a double-faced permanent cannot be turned face down while on the battlefield, it follows the status change occurs first while the card is still in the library and only then is put on the battlefield.
Logically then, all "enter the battlefield as other then default status" actions should first perform the status change then put the permanent on the battlefield.
If so, it follows that the card is transformed into Persistent Nightmare first and only then put onto the battlefield except that Cage won't allow that.
I admit this is somewhat technical rather than common sense thus I wouldn't feel bad if Wizard's officially disagrees.
This tone is on the confrontational side. Warning issued for trolling.
- Teia
This is incorrect for a few reasons. Grafdigger's Cage has an effect that uses "card" and mentions the name of a zone, so its effect refers to cards in that zone as they exist in that zone, not as they would exist in another zone. Startled Awake is a sorcery card while in the graveyard, so it's unaffected by the restriction of Grafdigger's Cage.
109.2a If a spell or ability uses a description of an object that includes the word “card” and the name of a zone, it means a card matching that description in the stated zone.
Additionally, it's impossible for the change in status to occur while in any zone other than the battlefield. The Startled Awake enters the battlefield already transformed; there is no status change involved at all.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
How does that comply with 307.4?
As you describe the event, the game would have to look into the future to ensure a sorcery is not entering the battlefield. Where in the CR is the game permitted to look ahead in time to determine action legality?
614.12. Some replacement effects modify how a permanent enters the battlefield. (See rules 614.1c–d.)
Such effects may come from the permanent itself if they affect only that permanent (as opposed to a
general subset of permanents that includes it). They may also come from other sources. To
determine which replacement effects apply and how they apply, check the characteristics of the
permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have
already modified how it enters the battlefield (see rule 616.1), continuous effects generated by the
resolution of spells or abilities that changed the permanent’s characteristics on the stack (see rule
400.7a), and continuous effects from the permanent’s own static abilities, but ignoring continuous
effects from any other source that would affect it.
But by 614.12's own words, it only applies to replacement effects not other unrelated rules. Furthermore, 614.12 is explicit that it looks into the future.
Requiring the game to look into the future is an added complexity that I don't think should be implicitly read into a rule.
307.4 could be read as "Is a sorcery card changing zones to the battlefield? If yes, that zone change is forbidden."
Or, it could be read as "Is a card changing zones to the battlefield and will that card be a sorcery when it is on the battlefield? If yes, that zone change is forbidden."
I would suggest the first reading is simpler and therefore preferred absent an explicit command to use the more complex reading.
Why? Because 307.4 refers to a card type that can never, ever be a permanent. Applying the above rule means 307.4 says "sorcery permanents cannot enter the battlefield", a nonsensical result.
Listen, I'm not saying that 307.4 doesn't look into the future. I'm saying both interpretations are possible based on the wording. And I haven't seen any convincing proof that one is certainly correct and the other certainly wrong.
Could you explain in a little more detail why you think the ruling on Cage does not apply?
Cage sees a Sculpting Steel about to enter the battlefield, that proposed action is acceptable to the Cage. The fact that the action will ultimately result in a creature entering is of no concern after the Cage gives it's consent (really refusal to prohibit).
Rule 307.4 sees a Startled Awake about to enter the battlefield, the proposed action is WTF, THAT IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.
So either Startled Awake first transforms then enters the battlefield, in which case 307.4 is happy but Cage is unhappy, OR, rule 307.4 looks into the future and can see the (nonexistent as far as the game is concerned) back side as it will look on the battlefield in the future and is happy and Cage doesn't care about sorceries.
http://tabakrules.tumblr.com/post/143587256964/how-does-startled-awake-comply-with-rule-3074
It is never a sorcery entering the battlefield, and it never transforms 'first' and then moves. It can't be transformed in the graveyard.
It is a sorcery in the graveyard, and then a creature in play. There is no in-between.
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Startled Awake can't first transform, which means that it must be the second interpretation.
Ruling to prove this:
"701.25a Only permanents represented by double-faced cards can transform. (See rule 711, “Double-Faced Cards.”) If a spell or ability instructs a player to transform any permanent that isn’t represented by a double-faced card, nothing happens."
And just in case
"110.1. A permanent is a card or token on the battlefield. A permanent remains on the battlefield indefinitely. A card or token becomes a permanent as it enters the battlefield and it stops being a permanent as it’s moved to another zone by an effect or rule."
Bolded by me for emphasis both times.
Graham from Loading Ready Run
That same ability on cage, though, also uses the name of another zone, "battlefield." So what about obzedat's aid on phyrexian metamorph copying a non-creature? The ruling makes it sound like the only thing that matters is the card as it exists in the graveyard, but wouldn't the card need to be a creature in both zones for cage to care?
Not sure if/how this relates to the OP but it seems ballpark.
4/15/2013 The first ability checks only whether the card is a creature card in the graveyard or library. A card such as Sculpting Steel can still enter the battlefield from a graveyard or library as a copy of a creature
Graham from Loading Ready Run