Hey guys I'm new to MTG but have ran into this circumstance a few times.
My deck: White / Green humans (aggro)
Occurance: I play Hanweir Militia Captain when there are a few low health minions on board, for example 3, next turn it flips into a 4/4 Westvale Cult Leader. Turn after opponent plays board clear, in particular Kozilek's Return.
What actually happens. Does the two damage occur at once to the board making the then current 4/4 Westvale Cult Leader a 4/2, clearing the entire board of low health minions, then making the 4/2 Westvale Cult Leader a 1/1. Or do the smaller ones die first, making the 4/4 Westvale Cult Leader a 1/1 and thus killing it in the process.
I have debated this a few times, and generally we just say the Westvale Cult Leader dies too. Which I find odd, as you'd think damage would be applied at the same time but I was told that damage doesn't wear off until end of turn phase?
Cheers guys, I hope I can get some help with this!
Damage doesn't fall off a creature until the end step.
When your opponent plays Kozilek's Return, each creature is dealt 2 damage. That 2 damage remains on the creature until the end of the turn. Because of this, when your 1/1's die, and the 4/4 Westvale Cult Leader becomes a 1/1, the 2 damage is still on it, and so it's toughness becomes less than 1, and so it dies.
As for your final question, yes all the damage to the creatures is dealt on the same time, but that doesn't mean that the damage immediately goes away.
I hope this helps!
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MY DECKS
Standard BBBMono Black DevotionBBB
Modern WUBEsper Token/SuperfriendsWUB
Commander (EDH) WBRKaalia of the VastWBR
Thanks for the clarification. I just find it odd that damage phases occur at different times. But rules are rules, and if that's how Wizard's made it, one simply can't debate against it! Cheers mate.
Thanks for the clarification. I just find it odd that damage phases occur at different times. But rules are rules, and if that's how Wizard's made it, one simply can't debate against it! Cheers mate.
There are no damage phases. As Thorgor explained damage is marked on creatures. If there is more damage marked on a creature than it has toughness, it dies.
Regular damage does not reduce toughness, it is just marked on the creatures. A 4/4 with 2 damage marked on it is not the same thing as a 4/2.
When Kozilek's Return resolves, it deals 2 damage to each creatures, then finishes resolving and goes to its owner's graveyard.
Then, state-based action are checked and all creatures with an amount of damage marked on them equal to or greater than their toughness are destroyed.
Then, state-based actions are checked again. At this point, if you control 2 or fewer creatures, Westvale Cult Leader is also destroyed.
Damage wears off during the cleanup step, which is the last step of the turn and follows the end step. This is also when "until end of turn" effects end (both happen at the same time.)
wait I thought that damage resolves which would make Westvale Cult leader a 4/2 then after resolving on the 3 minions therefore killing them, the Cult leader simply becomes a 1/1 leaving it alive for next turn
As stated upthread, damage doesn't reduce toughness. When Kozilek's Return resolves, it will deal two damage to the Captain, and it will be a 4/4 with 2 damage on it. Then, all the other creatures die (from the two damage they have on them), and the Captain is now a 1/1, still with that 2 damage on it. Then the captain dies , because the 2 damage is greater than or equal to its 1 toughness.
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My deck: White / Green humans (aggro)
Occurance: I play Hanweir Militia Captain when there are a few low health minions on board, for example 3, next turn it flips into a 4/4 Westvale Cult Leader. Turn after opponent plays board clear, in particular Kozilek's Return.
What actually happens. Does the two damage occur at once to the board making the then current 4/4 Westvale Cult Leader a 4/2, clearing the entire board of low health minions, then making the 4/2 Westvale Cult Leader a 1/1. Or do the smaller ones die first, making the 4/4 Westvale Cult Leader a 1/1 and thus killing it in the process.
I have debated this a few times, and generally we just say the Westvale Cult Leader dies too. Which I find odd, as you'd think damage would be applied at the same time but I was told that damage doesn't wear off until end of turn phase?
Cheers guys, I hope I can get some help with this!
When your opponent plays Kozilek's Return, each creature is dealt 2 damage. That 2 damage remains on the creature until the end of the turn. Because of this, when your 1/1's die, and the 4/4 Westvale Cult Leader becomes a 1/1, the 2 damage is still on it, and so it's toughness becomes less than 1, and so it dies.
As for your final question, yes all the damage to the creatures is dealt on the same time, but that doesn't mean that the damage immediately goes away.
I hope this helps!
MY DECKS
Standard
BBBMono Black DevotionBBB
Modern
WUBEsper Token/SuperfriendsWUB
Commander (EDH)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR
Custom Set - Kolros, the Mana Distortion
There are no damage phases. As Thorgor explained damage is marked on creatures. If there is more damage marked on a creature than it has toughness, it dies.
Or are you interested in a Fiora flavor cube? Conspire and win!
Level 2 Judge