Yes. Each one will trigger the other, forming a loop. This will continue until all of your opponents lose the game or someone removes one of those from the battlefield.
If the loop somehow does not result in your opponents losing the game (perhaps because your opponent had an Angel's Grace resolve this turn) then the loop will continue indefinitely. If no one removes one of the permanents, the game will end in a draw.
Yes. That's a variant of the Exquisite Blood-Sanguine Bond combo. They trigger each other over and over. It's not infinite, though. It'll end as soon as you can no longer target an opponent or you win the game.
Yes. Each one will trigger the other, forming a loop. This will continue until all of your opponents lose the game or someone removes one of those from the battlefield.
If the loop somehow does not result in your opponents losing the game (perhaps because your opponent had an Angel's Grace resolve this turn) then the loop will continue indefinitely. If no one removes one of the permanents, the game will end in a draw.
In a draw? If it's only me and the opponent we end in a draw when I have more life and he has none? Sorry got confused with that one unless I missed a rule?
If the game enters a mandatory loop with no one able to stop it, yes, the game is a draw. Life totals don't matter for this.
(Even if someone does have the means, since it won't be part of the loop's pieces, he's not forced to use it, but can choose to let the game draw.)
104.4b If a game that’s not using the limited range of influence option (including a two-player
game) somehow enters a “loop” of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no
way to stop, the game is a draw. Loops that contain an optional action don’t result in a draw.
104.4b If a game that’s not using the limited range of influence option (including a two-player game) somehow enters a “loop” of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no
way to stop, the game is a draw. Loops that contain an optional action don’t result in a draw.
Exquisite Blood and Defiant Bloodlord both have triggered abilities that cause mandatory actions to happen. Since no one is given an option for whether to take any of the actions, this results in a loop as described above. Normally, this loop ends when your opponent reaches 0 or less life because they lose the game, but if that can't happen for some reason then you will continue gaining life and your opponent will continue losing life indefinitely. The fact that you wind up with a much higher life total than your opponent in this case isn't relevant because the rule doesn't say it is.
The rule is that when the combo goes off and your opponent has resolved a Angels Grace, then the effects will continue to happen indefinitely, halting the progress of the game.
The rule is that when the combo goes off and your opponent has resolved a Angels Grace, then the effects will continue to happen indefinitely, halting the progress of the game.
However when I have Angel's Grace I can stop my own loop before an opponent would lose and it will be and easy finish? I assume
The rule is that when the combo goes off and your opponent has resolved a Angels Grace, then the effects will continue to happen indefinitely, halting the progress of the game.
However when I have Angel's Grace I can stop my own loop before an opponent would lose and it will be and easy finish? I assume
I'm not sure why you'd need your own Grace. The loop will win you the game, unless your opponent has some means of not dying. You don't need Angel's Grace.
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Formerly Angrypossum over at the now-defunct WotC forums.
The rule is that when the combo goes off and your opponent has resolved a Angels Grace, then the effects will continue to happen indefinitely, halting the progress of the game.
However when I have Angel's Grace I can stop my own loop before an opponent would lose and it will be and easy finish? I assume
That doesn't make sense. Angel's Grace doesn't do anything for you if you control the combo. It certainly doesn't stop the loop.
104.4b If a game that’s not using the limited range of influence option (including a two-player game) somehow enters a “loop” of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no
way to stop, the game is a draw. Loops that contain an optional action don’t result in a draw.
So I can break the mandatory loop before opponent reaches zero
If you do have a means to stop the loop, you certainly want to use it after your opponent reaches 0 or less life, not before. He may not lose this turn, but he won't be having another meaningful turn himself since he loses next turn (if he cannot raise his life total above 0 again in time, meaning during this turn) as soon as state based actions are checked (which happens in his upkeep before he gets priority to do anthing).
edit:
If a trigger goes off in the cleanup step, or some other state based action is performed (him losing for having 0 life isn't performed because it can't happen due to AG), he won't even make it to his turn, since he'll lose this turn already in a second cleanup step, when the effect of Angel's Grace has already ended.
104.4b If a game that’s not using the limited range of influence option (including a two-player game) somehow enters a “loop” of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no
way to stop, the game is a draw. Loops that contain an optional action don’t result in a draw.
So I can break the mandatory loop before opponent reaches zero
Angel's Grace doesn't stop the loop.
In a normal situation, the two cards in the OP will win you the game. Angel's Grace makes it a draw if your opponent casts it unless you have a different method of ending the loop (say, Murder on the Bloodlord)
104.4b If a game that’s not using the limited range of influence option (including a two-player game) somehow enters a “loop” of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no
way to stop, the game is a draw. Loops that contain an optional action don’t result in a draw.
So I can break the mandatory loop before opponent reaches zero
You don't need to break the loop under normal circumstances. Your opponent will die, and the game will end. No other cards are required.
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Formerly Angrypossum over at the now-defunct WotC forums.
104.4b If a game that’s not using the limited range of influence option (including a two-player game) somehow enters a “loop” of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no
way to stop, the game is a draw. Loops that contain an optional action don’t result in a draw.
So I can break the mandatory loop before opponent reaches zero
Angel's Grace doesn't stop the loop.
In a normal situation, the two cards in the OP will win you the game. Angel's Grace makes it a draw if your opponent casts it unless you have a different method of ending the loop (say, Murder on the Bloodlord)
Exactly what I was thinking but using ruinous path
Ruinous Path won't do anything because you can't cast it with anything on the stack. Because of the way triggers work, there will always be something on the stack.
Ruinous Path won't do anything because you can't cast it with anything on the stack. Because of the way triggers work, there will always be something on the stack.
Oh right! Brain fart there.
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If the loop somehow does not result in your opponents losing the game (perhaps because your opponent had an Angel's Grace resolve this turn) then the loop will continue indefinitely. If no one removes one of the permanents, the game will end in a draw.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
In a draw? If it's only me and the opponent we end in a draw when I have more life and he has none? Sorry got confused with that one unless I missed a rule?
(Even if someone does have the means, since it won't be part of the loop's pieces, he's not forced to use it, but can choose to let the game draw.)
104.4b If a game that’s not using the limited range of influence option (including a two-player
game) somehow enters a “loop” of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no
way to stop, the game is a draw. Loops that contain an optional action don’t result in a draw.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
Ah ha ok sweet!
Exquisite Blood and Defiant Bloodlord both have triggered abilities that cause mandatory actions to happen. Since no one is given an option for whether to take any of the actions, this results in a loop as described above. Normally, this loop ends when your opponent reaches 0 or less life because they lose the game, but if that can't happen for some reason then you will continue gaining life and your opponent will continue losing life indefinitely. The fact that you wind up with a much higher life total than your opponent in this case isn't relevant because the rule doesn't say it is.
However when I have Angel's Grace I can stop my own loop before an opponent would lose and it will be and easy finish? I assume
I'm not sure why you'd need your own Grace. The loop will win you the game, unless your opponent has some means of not dying. You don't need Angel's Grace.
That doesn't make sense. Angel's Grace doesn't do anything for you if you control the combo. It certainly doesn't stop the loop.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
104.4b If a game that’s not using the limited range of influence option (including a two-player game) somehow enters a “loop” of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no
way to stop, the game is a draw. Loops that contain an optional action don’t result in a draw.
So I can break the mandatory loop before opponent reaches zero
edit:
If a trigger goes off in the cleanup step, or some other state based action is performed (him losing for having 0 life isn't performed because it can't happen due to AG), he won't even make it to his turn, since he'll lose this turn already in a second cleanup step, when the effect of Angel's Grace has already ended.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
Angel's Grace doesn't stop the loop.
In a normal situation, the two cards in the OP will win you the game. Angel's Grace makes it a draw if your opponent casts it unless you have a different method of ending the loop (say, Murder on the Bloodlord)
You don't need to break the loop under normal circumstances. Your opponent will die, and the game will end. No other cards are required.
Exactly what I was thinking but using ruinous path
Oh right! Brain fart there.