I have 2 Doubling Season and a Spike Feeder with 12 counters. I cast Solidarity of Heroes. The way I see it, Solidarity's effect would put 12 counters on Feeder and the Doubling Seasons make that 48 instead, total 60. My opponent insisted I'd get 36 more. What's the right answer?
I have 2 Doubling Season and a Spike Feeder with 12 counters. I cast Solidarity of Heroes. The way I see it, Solidarity's effect would put 12 counters on Feeder and the Doubling Seasons make that 48 instead, total 60. My opponent insisted I'd get 36 more. What's the right answer?
Gatherer has your answer:
10/1/2005 If there are two Doubling Seasons on the battlefield, then the number of tokens or counters is four times the original number. If there are three on the battlefield, then the number of tokens or counters is eight times the original number, and so on.
You will get 48 (12 * 4). This is because the first doubles the counters (from 12 to 24) and then the second doubles that (24 to 48) and then you add that to the original 12 to get a final number of 60 as you thought.
I knew that two Doubling Seasons quadrupled the counters. My opponent accepted that, but he was confused about how it interacted with the doubling of Solidarity of Heroes.
I knew that two Doubling Seasons quadrupled the counters. My opponent accepted that, but he was confused about how it interacted with the doubling of Solidarity of Heroes.
Solidarity of Heroes basically says "Put X counters on each target creature where X is the number of counters on that creature". When seen this way, and using the example above, you can see that Solidarity says "add 12 counters to Spike Feeder" and then the 2 doubling seasons apply to those counters being added.
I am not sure if this clears up some of the confusion, but it seems like your opponent is getting tripped up on the "double" part of Solidarity.
I knew that two Doubling Seasons quadrupled the counters. My opponent accepted that, but he was confused about how it interacted with the doubling of Solidarity of Heroes.
Solidarity of Heroes basically says "Put X counters on each target creature where X is the number of counters on that creature". When seen this way, and using the example above, you can see that Solidarity says "add 12 counters to Spike Feeder" and then the 2 doubling seasons apply to those counters being added.
I am not sure if this clears up some of the confusion, but it seems like your opponent is getting tripped up on the "double" part of Solidarity.
So it works the way I thought. My opponent thought Solidarity doubling was replaced by Seasons, instead of multiplying counters added by Solidarity.
When I cast Elven Rite earlier, he recognized that added 8. (I cast Feeder when I had only one Season out, so it started out with 4)
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
Gatherer has your answer:
You will get 48 (12 * 4). This is because the first doubles the counters (from 12 to 24) and then the second doubles that (24 to 48) and then you add that to the original 12 to get a final number of 60 as you thought.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
Solidarity of Heroes basically says "Put X counters on each target creature where X is the number of counters on that creature". When seen this way, and using the example above, you can see that Solidarity says "add 12 counters to Spike Feeder" and then the 2 doubling seasons apply to those counters being added.
I am not sure if this clears up some of the confusion, but it seems like your opponent is getting tripped up on the "double" part of Solidarity.
So it works the way I thought. My opponent thought Solidarity doubling was replaced by Seasons, instead of multiplying counters added by Solidarity.
When I cast Elven Rite earlier, he recognized that added 8. (I cast Feeder when I had only one Season out, so it started out with 4)
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica