Hi, I've got a few questions about Cyclops Gladiator and Tahngarth, Talruum Hero. I'm trying to figure out how these pre-fight abilities differ from the fight mechanic.
One way seems to be that, in least with Cyclops Gladiator, its triggered ability will still deal damage to the target creature if Cyclops Gladiator leaves the battlefield before the ability resolves. Does Tahngarth, Talruum Hero's activated ability work in the same fashion?
I also understand that while abilities can't trigger until these abilities are done resolving, the order still matters in a few fringe cases such as with wither or infect. If Cyclops Gladiator or Tahngarth, Talruum Hero have wither or infect, is it correct that the target creature gets -1/-1 counters before it gets to deal damage back?
Your thoughts on both of those things are correct for the reasons stated.
Both the Cyclops and Tahngarth can deal their damage even if they're gone while the ability resolves; a source of damage doesnt need to still exist to deal damage, see Mogg Fanatic as the classic example. As for checking their power, the game uses last known information.
112.7a. Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time won't affect the ability. Note that some abilities cause a source to do something (for example, "Prodigal Pyromancer deals 1 damage to target creature or player") rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source because the effect needs to be divided checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both instances, if the source is no longer in the zone it's expected to be in at that time, its last known information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists.
And yes, the order of the instructions does matter. You must follow them in order, and wither and infect have their result of putting -1/-1 counters as soon as the damage is dealt. It will indeed make it so the target creature will have less power when it deals damage back.
I'm a former judge (lapsed), who keeps up to date on rules and policy. Keep in mind that judges' answers aren't necessarily more valid than those of people who aren't judges; what matters is we can quote the rules to back up our answers. When in doubt, ask for such quotes.
The main thing of the fight mechanic is that the two creatures deal damage to each other simultaneously. The giant and minotaur you linked don't - they punch first, then get punched back.
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One way seems to be that, in least with Cyclops Gladiator, its triggered ability will still deal damage to the target creature if Cyclops Gladiator leaves the battlefield before the ability resolves. Does Tahngarth, Talruum Hero's activated ability work in the same fashion?
I also understand that while abilities can't trigger until these abilities are done resolving, the order still matters in a few fringe cases such as with wither or infect. If Cyclops Gladiator or Tahngarth, Talruum Hero have wither or infect, is it correct that the target creature gets -1/-1 counters before it gets to deal damage back?
Both the Cyclops and Tahngarth can deal their damage even if they're gone while the ability resolves; a source of damage doesnt need to still exist to deal damage, see Mogg Fanatic as the classic example. As for checking their power, the game uses last known information. And yes, the order of the instructions does matter. You must follow them in order, and wither and infect have their result of putting -1/-1 counters as soon as the damage is dealt. It will indeed make it so the target creature will have less power when it deals damage back.