My friend just had a terrible experience with another player because of Sensei's Divining Top and Rings of Brighthearth (and the person they were playing with.) One out of the four players in the EDH pod went into a screaming (drunken) rage because they disagreed with them that after the resolution of the Rings of Brighthearth trigger copying Sensei's Divining Top's draw ability the Top in the players had didn't have to be put back on the library.
I know from a previous post that I found that the Top that the player drew as their second card doesn't have to be put back onto the library, but I'm trying to figure out a good way to explain it to someone. In my mind, it's because the text on Sensei's Divining Top that refers to "Sensei's Divining Top" is referring to the object that is itself. Since that object is no longer in a zone where it is considered to be "Sense's Divining Top", it fails to find. I think I worded that wrong, but it's the way I see it.
Also, as a side question, if I had a copy of Sensei's Divining Top on the field from something like Sculpting Steel, would I be required to put that on top of my library?
Once an object changes zone it becomes a new object with no memory of its previous existence (unless stated otherwise on the card), one result of this is that effects that look for that object can no longer find it. When the player draws their 2nd library the ability is looking for the same game object that activated that ability and since it can't find it that part is just ignored.
No the ability means put back this object, the other top isn't the same object and thus the ability doesn't care about it.
Sensei's Divining Top's second ability first tries to move the Top from the battlefield to the top of your library, then makes you draw a card makes you draw a card, then tries to take the Top from the battlefield and put it on top of your library. If it can't find the Top on the battlefield, it just skips that part and makes you draw a card.
Additional: "Sensei's Divining Top" actually means "this permanent". Once the Top leaves the battlefield, it's no longer a permanent.
More complex: The reason that it doesn't look in your hand for the Top is because there's no way for your opponent to confirm you have the Top in your hand. If you used an effect to shuffle your deck between the two effects, then the Top could be anywhere in your library, so how would you find it again? And if you were playing more than one copy, you'd have to know which copy of Top to get, despite the fact that they're identical. So Wizards went for the simple solution.
Also, as a side question, if I had a copy of Sensei's Divining Top on the field from something like Sculpting Steel, would I be required to put that on top of my library?
Just want to be sure about this. Todd answered the question assuming you meant "if I activate a copy of Sensei's Divining Top, do I have to put that card (the copy) on top of my library?", to which the answer is yes.
When I read your question though, I thought you were referring to having both Sensei's Divining Top and a copy of it on the field, then activating the actual Top and copying its ability with Rings of Brighthearth. In this case, the second time the ability goes to resolve and put Top on top of the library, it is still referring to the actual Top (the one that generated the ability). A copy of the first Top's effect will not force you to put any other Top you might control on top of the library.
Just wanted to clarify that in case that was the situation you were referring to. In effect, Rings + Top lets you draw a card for the cost of 2 and returning the Top to your hand.
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My friend just had a terrible experience with another player because of Sensei's Divining Top and Rings of Brighthearth (and the person they were playing with.) One out of the four players in the EDH pod went into a screaming (drunken) rage because they disagreed with them that after the resolution of the Rings of Brighthearth trigger copying Sensei's Divining Top's draw ability the Top in the players had didn't have to be put back on the library.
I know from a previous post that I found that the Top that the player drew as their second card doesn't have to be put back onto the library, but I'm trying to figure out a good way to explain it to someone. In my mind, it's because the text on Sensei's Divining Top that refers to "Sensei's Divining Top" is referring to the object that is itself. Since that object is no longer in a zone where it is considered to be "Sense's Divining Top", it fails to find. I think I worded that wrong, but it's the way I see it.
Also, as a side question, if I had a copy of Sensei's Divining Top on the field from something like Sculpting Steel, would I be required to put that on top of my library?
No the ability means put back this object, the other top isn't the same object and thus the ability doesn't care about it.
tries to move the Top from the battlefield to the top of your library, then makes you draw a cardmakes you draw a card, then tries to take the Top from the battlefield and put it on top of your library. If it can't find the Top on the battlefield, it just skips that part and makes you draw a card.Additional: "Sensei's Divining Top" actually means "this permanent". Once the Top leaves the battlefield, it's no longer a permanent.
More complex: The reason that it doesn't look in your hand for the Top is because there's no way for your opponent to confirm you have the Top in your hand. If you used an effect to shuffle your deck between the two effects, then the Top could be anywhere in your library, so how would you find it again? And if you were playing more than one copy, you'd have to know which copy of Top to get, despite the fact that they're identical. So Wizards went for the simple solution.
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Just want to be sure about this. Todd answered the question assuming you meant "if I activate a copy of Sensei's Divining Top, do I have to put that card (the copy) on top of my library?", to which the answer is yes.
When I read your question though, I thought you were referring to having both Sensei's Divining Top and a copy of it on the field, then activating the actual Top and copying its ability with Rings of Brighthearth. In this case, the second time the ability goes to resolve and put Top on top of the library, it is still referring to the actual Top (the one that generated the ability). A copy of the first Top's effect will not force you to put any other Top you might control on top of the library.
Just wanted to clarify that in case that was the situation you were referring to. In effect, Rings + Top lets you draw a card for the cost of 2 and returning the Top to your hand.