I posted this in the Custom Card Rulings forum, but no one responded. If this thread is inappropriate for this forum, I apologize. My question isn't about how to template or design a custom card.
A while ago, I saw a hilarious mockup for a Yawgmoth planeswalker:
I was thinking about how you could possibly use it. Since it has no casting cost, you have to cheat it into play - but that's the easy part (you can just use a card with cascade or something). The hard part is how to keep it alive when it has 0 loyalty counters.
I think I came up with a solution, but I'm not 100% sure if it works. Can someone weigh in?
Now everything is an artifact creature that gets +1/+1.
Cast Gideon Jura (or any other Planeswalker for that matter) - he'll be a 6/6 artifact creature planeswalker with 6 loyalty counters.
Cast Clone choosing Gideon.
The planeswalker uniqueness rule comes into effect. Sacrifice the original Gideon, leaving the Clone.
The Clone is a 6/6 artifact creature planeswalker with 6 loyalty counters.
Cast Mirrorweave targeting Unstable Shapeshifter. Now the Clone is a 5/5 (or 1/2, I'm not actually sure but it doesn't matter) Unstable Shapeshifter with 6 loyalty counters.
Cheat in Yawgmoth with cascade or something.
Yawgmoth enters as an artifact creature planeswalker that's 1/1, but it dies immediately due to having 0 loyalty counters
However, the Shapeshifter and the Shapeshifted Clone's ability triggers when Yawgmoth enters, and they both become Yawgmoths. Sacrifice the original Shapeshifter to the planeswalker uniqueness rule, leaving only the Clone (which is temporarily a Shapeshifter, and has now become a Yawgmoth). The Clone-Shape-Moth is a 1/1 Artifact Creature Planeswalker - Yawgmoth with 6 loyalty counters.
Cast another Clone and choose Yawgmoth. Sacrifice the previous one to the uniqueness rule. (This way, it won't revert back to being Gideon when Mirrorweave wears off.)
Then get rid of all the other extraneous permanents (though make sure to get rid of March of the Machines before Glorious Anthem or your Yawgman will die due to being a 0/0 creature). This way, it will no longer have the Shapeshifter's ability.
Does this work? Is there an easier way to achieve the same thing?
I believe that this works right up until you hit this point:
>Cast another Clone and choose Yawgmoth. Sacrifice the previous one to the uniqueness rule. (This way, it won't revert back to being Gideon when Mirrorweave wears off.)
If you cast a new Clone as Yawgmoth, it will enter with Yawgmoth's printed loyalty - 0, and immediately die.
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Yes, Wildfire393 is correct. In the step that he cites, the Clone that enters the battlefield as a copy of the copy of Yawgmoth will enter the battlefield with zero loyalty counters. It doesn't enter the battlefield with the counters that the copy of Yawgmoth has.
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There is no way to cheat the Yawgmoth into play, assuming the only other cards we have to work with are currently existing cards. The rules on Planeswalkers say the following:
704.5i If a planeswalker has loyalty 0, it’s put into its owner’s graveyard.
It doesn't matter that it is a 1/1 creature. It has 0 loyalty so it is put into its owners graveyard when state based actions are checked.
There is no way to cheat the Yawgmoth into play, assuming the only other cards we have to work with are currently existing cards. The rules on Planeswalkers say the following:
704.5i If a planeswalker has loyalty 0, it’s put into its owner’s graveyard.
It doesn't matter that it is a 1/1 creature. It has 0 loyalty so it is put into its owners graveyard when state based actions are checked.
The one that's actually cheated in (via cascade or similar) does die immediately, but the OP's scenario accounts for that. Its entry into the battlefield would still trigger Unstable Shapeshifter's ability so long as continuous effects make it so that Yawgmoth is entering the battlefield as a creature.
This actually does work, at least partially. You don't even really need Clone in the setup.
1. With Mycosynth Lattice, March of the Machines, and Glorious Anthem on the battlefield, Gideon Jura is a 6/6 Artifact Creature Planeswalker - Gideon with 6 loyalty counters.
2. Cast Unstable Shapeshifter and cast Mirrorweave targeting it. This temporarily turns Gideon into a copy of Unstable Shapeshifter.
3. Cheat Yawgmoth onto the battlefield. It enters as a 1/1 Artifact Creature Planeswalker - Yawgmoth with 0 loyalty counters and triggers the Shapeshifter abilities, then dies.
4. Resolve the Shapeshifter abilities. This turns both Gideon and the original Shapeshifter into copies of Yawgmoth with the Shapeshifter's ability. Gideon still has 6 loyalty counters.
5. Put the creature that was originally Unstable Shapeshifter into your graveyard due to the planeswalker uniqueness rule (it would go away anyway because it's also a planeswalker with 0 loyalty counters.)
The end result is that the printed Gideon Jura card is now a copy of Yawgmoth with 6 loyalty counters and the Unstable Shapeshifter triggered ability. There's no way to get rid of the triggered ability, however, since gaining the ability is part of the copy effect. Eventually the Mirrorweave effect will wear off, but that won't have a noticeable impact because it's not the most recently applied copy effect anyway.
Don't you consider it a success once you get to this step?
----> "The Clone-Shape-Moth is a 1/1 Artifact Creature Planeswalker - Yawgmoth with 6 loyalty counters."
At this point, you can activate his abilities of doom right?
To get a Yawgmoth that sticks around after the turn ends, couldn't you turn Unstable Shapeshifter into an Experiment Kraj, put loyalty counters on him using the well-known planeswalker Kraj nonsense, and then make Unstable Shapeshifter into a copy of Yawgmoth? You can even throw in a Torpor Orb to make sure he never reverts back.
It helps to actually completely read the opening post, lol. Loyalty counters are not a copiable stat, hence the Gideon Jura will copy the Yawgmoth and its abilities but maintain it's 6 loyalty counters.
A while ago, I saw a hilarious mockup for a Yawgmoth planeswalker:
I was thinking about how you could possibly use it. Since it has no casting cost, you have to cheat it into play - but that's the easy part (you can just use a card with cascade or something). The hard part is how to keep it alive when it has 0 loyalty counters.
I think I came up with a solution, but I'm not 100% sure if it works. Can someone weigh in?
Here's my idea:
Cast Glorious Anthem.
Cast March of the Machines.
Cast Mycosynth Lattice.
Now everything is an artifact creature that gets +1/+1.
Cast Gideon Jura (or any other Planeswalker for that matter) - he'll be a 6/6 artifact creature planeswalker with 6 loyalty counters.
Cast Clone choosing Gideon.
The planeswalker uniqueness rule comes into effect. Sacrifice the original Gideon, leaving the Clone.
The Clone is a 6/6 artifact creature planeswalker with 6 loyalty counters.
Cast Unstable Shapeshifter.
Cast Mirrorweave targeting Unstable Shapeshifter. Now the Clone is a 5/5 (or 1/2, I'm not actually sure but it doesn't matter) Unstable Shapeshifter with 6 loyalty counters.
Cheat in Yawgmoth with cascade or something.
Yawgmoth enters as an artifact creature planeswalker that's 1/1, but it dies immediately due to having 0 loyalty counters
However, the Shapeshifter and the Shapeshifted Clone's ability triggers when Yawgmoth enters, and they both become Yawgmoths. Sacrifice the original Shapeshifter to the planeswalker uniqueness rule, leaving only the Clone (which is temporarily a Shapeshifter, and has now become a Yawgmoth). The Clone-Shape-Moth is a 1/1 Artifact Creature Planeswalker - Yawgmoth with 6 loyalty counters.
Cast another Clone and choose Yawgmoth. Sacrifice the previous one to the uniqueness rule. (This way, it won't revert back to being Gideon when Mirrorweave wears off.)
Then get rid of all the other extraneous permanents (though make sure to get rid of March of the Machines before Glorious Anthem or your Yawgman will die due to being a 0/0 creature). This way, it will no longer have the Shapeshifter's ability.
Does this work? Is there an easier way to achieve the same thing?
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>Cast another Clone and choose Yawgmoth. Sacrifice the previous one to the uniqueness rule. (This way, it won't revert back to being Gideon when Mirrorweave wears off.)
If you cast a new Clone as Yawgmoth, it will enter with Yawgmoth's printed loyalty - 0, and immediately die.
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[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
704.5i If a planeswalker has loyalty 0, it’s put into its owner’s graveyard.
It doesn't matter that it is a 1/1 creature. It has 0 loyalty so it is put into its owners graveyard when state based actions are checked.
New to Commander? Read the Above article.
This actually does work, at least partially. You don't even really need Clone in the setup.
1. With Mycosynth Lattice, March of the Machines, and Glorious Anthem on the battlefield, Gideon Jura is a 6/6 Artifact Creature Planeswalker - Gideon with 6 loyalty counters.
2. Cast Unstable Shapeshifter and cast Mirrorweave targeting it. This temporarily turns Gideon into a copy of Unstable Shapeshifter.
3. Cheat Yawgmoth onto the battlefield. It enters as a 1/1 Artifact Creature Planeswalker - Yawgmoth with 0 loyalty counters and triggers the Shapeshifter abilities, then dies.
4. Resolve the Shapeshifter abilities. This turns both Gideon and the original Shapeshifter into copies of Yawgmoth with the Shapeshifter's ability. Gideon still has 6 loyalty counters.
5. Put the creature that was originally Unstable Shapeshifter into your graveyard due to the planeswalker uniqueness rule (it would go away anyway because it's also a planeswalker with 0 loyalty counters.)
The end result is that the printed Gideon Jura card is now a copy of Yawgmoth with 6 loyalty counters and the Unstable Shapeshifter triggered ability. There's no way to get rid of the triggered ability, however, since gaining the ability is part of the copy effect. Eventually the Mirrorweave effect will wear off, but that won't have a noticeable impact because it's not the most recently applied copy effect anyway.
----> "The Clone-Shape-Moth is a 1/1 Artifact Creature Planeswalker - Yawgmoth with 6 loyalty counters."
At this point, you can activate his abilities of doom right?
To get a Yawgmoth that sticks around after the turn ends, couldn't you turn Unstable Shapeshifter into an Experiment Kraj, put loyalty counters on him using the well-known planeswalker Kraj nonsense, and then make Unstable Shapeshifter into a copy of Yawgmoth? You can even throw in a Torpor Orb to make sure he never reverts back.
New to Commander? Read the Above article.