2 very young kids (pre-teens?) playing, and I overheard 'he shouldn't be dead.' Basically, upon arrival, play 2 only drew a card and was about to play a creature (which I believe was the card he just drew) when player 1 noticed that his creature could not have been blocked by only 1 creature due to Gruul War Chant. Was I right to have them rewind a half a turn back to have him declare legal blockers and proceed from there? Or would that be incorrect due to player 2 already drawing a card?
717.1. If a player realizes that he or she cant legally take an action after starting to do so, the entire action is reversed and any payments already made are canceled. No abilities trigger and no effects apply as a result of an undone action. If the action was casting a spell, the spell returns to the zone it came from. The player may also reverse any legal mana abilities activated while making the illegal play, unless mana from them or from any triggered mana abilities they triggered was spent on another mana ability that wasnt reversed. Players may not reverse actions that moved cards to a library, moved cards from a library to any zone other than the stack, or caused a library to be shuffled. #
717.2. When reversing illegal spells and abilities, the player who had priority retains it and may take another action or pass. The player may redo the reversed action in a legal way or take any other action allowed by the rules.
Judging by that, i bolded and underlined what i was looking at specifically, since a card was moved from the library to a zone other than the stack, you should have let them play out. If you were acting as a judge though, and deemed the game state wasn't too disturbed by reversing the actions, then you cant argue with the judge unless you go to the head judge, so i wouldn't worry about your ruling, unless the head judge were called over and decided, but things like this tend to be left up to the head judge.
Were i the head judge, by these rules i would have deemed the game state too disturbed and let them play on, issuing warnings to each of them for not maintaining game state.
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
The board/game state wasn't too disturbed. I understand age shouldn't change the rules, but I wanted to make sure they knew all that was going on.... (player 1 was playing slivers and player 2 was having issues tracking the P/T of the creatures.
The approach to solving problems is always to rewind if possible, let it be if rewinding would be too disruptive, or follow the special remedy procedure if one exists for the situation. Since you're acting as the "head Judge" the solution is completely up to you. Also, FNMs are always Regular REL so you get some more leeway in how you approach problem solving (the Judging at Regular document applies, rather than the Infraction Procedure Guide). For this situation a rewind sounds acceptable since the error didn't happen very long ago. Just make sure everything gets rewound properly (drawn cards, cast spells, dead creatures, etc.)
The point of FNM is to provide a more casual play environment where players are able to learn the rules while still being kept on them. To that end if no other actions have been taken by either player and you judge that backing up is the right decision then it is fine. Just take a random card from the hand of the player that drew and rewind all the way back to the declare blockers step and tell them both to be more careful in the future.
The rule Thylakelo quoted is for how to handle something that has become illegal, but before it finishes. Judges are still able to fix things including when a card has gone from the library to somewhere else.
Yeah, rewinding definitely didn't do any real damage, and if it made the game no less fun, and at the same time helped them learn how to be better players, then it was 100% the right decision.
The hardest part would be rewinding time, and deciding which card to make him put back, because if there was potential to block differently and react with a spell, and that spell was in his hand at the time of an illegal block, so his different blocker could have benefited, but now that was the spell that got put back on top, it disturbs the game state.
That rule is not for handling actions that have become illegal, it is for handling illegal actions that were taken. It is under the heading handling illegal actions, and the first part states
717.1. If a player realizes that he or she cant legally take an action after starting to do so...
so after they start the action, they realize it is illegal. Something changing and becoming illegal is handled under the rule 608.2b, under resolving spells and abilities.
Private Mod Note
():
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
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2 very young kids (pre-teens?) playing, and I overheard 'he shouldn't be dead.' Basically, upon arrival, play 2 only drew a card and was about to play a creature (which I believe was the card he just drew) when player 1 noticed that his creature could not have been blocked by only 1 creature due to Gruul War Chant. Was I right to have them rewind a half a turn back to have him declare legal blockers and proceed from there? Or would that be incorrect due to player 2 already drawing a card?
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Judging by that, i bolded and underlined what i was looking at specifically, since a card was moved from the library to a zone other than the stack, you should have let them play out. If you were acting as a judge though, and deemed the game state wasn't too disturbed by reversing the actions, then you cant argue with the judge unless you go to the head judge, so i wouldn't worry about your ruling, unless the head judge were called over and decided, but things like this tend to be left up to the head judge.
Were i the head judge, by these rules i would have deemed the game state too disturbed and let them play on, issuing warnings to each of them for not maintaining game state.
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The rule Thylakelo quoted is for how to handle something that has become illegal, but before it finishes. Judges are still able to fix things including when a card has gone from the library to somewhere else.
The hardest part would be rewinding time, and deciding which card to make him put back, because if there was potential to block differently and react with a spell, and that spell was in his hand at the time of an illegal block, so his different blocker could have benefited, but now that was the spell that got put back on top, it disturbs the game state.
That rule is not for handling actions that have become illegal, it is for handling illegal actions that were taken. It is under the heading handling illegal actions, and the first part states so after they start the action, they realize it is illegal. Something changing and becoming illegal is handled under the rule 608.2b, under resolving spells and abilities.