Not sure it the card tags will work on Nyx just yet, but I was looking at Phalanx Formation and wondering how it will interact with Sunforger. Is it the common sense answer, yes you can play it and pay the extra for more targets?
Strive creates an mandatory cost increase based on the number of targets for the spell. This cost is distinct from the mana cost of a spell, and so you must pay the strive cost to accommodate the additional targets.
For reference, the converted mana cost of the card only includes the mana cost of the card printed at the top right corner.
How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Consider rule 117.8, regarding additional costs, which clearly states that additional costs use the word "additional" (such as in the case of kicker); to quote: "A cost is an additional cost only if it’s phrased using the word 'additional.'" Strive does not use the word additional. This is instead covered by rule 601.2e (as we are instructed to look at in the case of extra, but non-additional, costs by 117.8e). This is, then a "cost increase" rather than an "additional cost".
I'm sure that the JOU rules bulletin will make it clear how it works in this sort of case. This thread has additional information which indicates we will probably still be able to "kick" a strive spell when casting it without paying its mana cost, but we'll find out for sure soon enough.
TL;DR: We need to wait for the comp. rules update to be able to say for sure, but it probably works this way. It's just worth noting that it isn't an "additional cost" like kicker and is instead just a "cost increase."
Consider rule 117.8, regarding additional costs, which clearly states that additional costs use the word "additional" (such as in the case of kicker); to quote: "A cost is an additional cost only if it’s phrased using the word 'additional.'" Strive does not use the word additional. This is instead covered by rule 601.2e (as we are instructed to look at in the case of extra, but non-additional, costs by 117.8e). This is, then a "cost increase" rather than an "additional cost".
I'm sure that the JOU rules bulletin will make it clear how it works in this sort of case. This thread has additional information which indicates we will probably still be able to "kick" a strive spell when casting it without paying its mana cost, but we'll find out for sure soon enough.
TL;DR: We need to wait for the comp. rules update to be able to say for sure, but it probably works this way. It's just worth noting that it isn't an "additional cost" like kicker and is instead just a "cost increase."
There is no ambiguity.
117.8e Some effects increase the cost to cast a spell or activate an ability without using the word "additional." Those are not additional costs, and are not considered until determining the total cost of a spell or ability as described in rule 601.2e.
601.2e The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost, plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions.
As described in 601.2e, the cost increase that strive gives is determined separately from the mana cost that one may or may not need to pay.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
thanks all.
For reference, the converted mana cost of the card only includes the mana cost of the card printed at the top right corner.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Consider rule 117.8, regarding additional costs, which clearly states that additional costs use the word "additional" (such as in the case of kicker); to quote: "A cost is an additional cost only if it’s phrased using the word 'additional.'" Strive does not use the word additional. This is instead covered by rule 601.2e (as we are instructed to look at in the case of extra, but non-additional, costs by 117.8e). This is, then a "cost increase" rather than an "additional cost".
I'm sure that the JOU rules bulletin will make it clear how it works in this sort of case. This thread has additional information which indicates we will probably still be able to "kick" a strive spell when casting it without paying its mana cost, but we'll find out for sure soon enough.
TL;DR: We need to wait for the comp. rules update to be able to say for sure, but it probably works this way. It's just worth noting that it isn't an "additional cost" like kicker and is instead just a "cost increase."
There is no ambiguity.
117.8e Some effects increase the cost to cast a spell or activate an ability without using the word "additional." Those are not additional costs, and are not considered until determining the total cost of a spell or ability as described in rule 601.2e.
601.2e The player determines the total cost of the spell. Usually this is just the mana cost. Some spells have additional or alternative costs. Some effects may increase or reduce the cost to pay, or may provide other alternative costs. Costs may include paying mana, tapping permanents, sacrificing permanents, discarding cards, and so on. The total cost is the mana cost or alternative cost, plus all additional costs and cost increases, and minus all cost reductions.
As described in 601.2e, the cost increase that strive gives is determined separately from the mana cost that one may or may not need to pay.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall