Was just playing a casual game of magic and he pulled out a combo of Killing Wave, Autumn's Veil
Would that protect his creatures from being affected? I don't think it would because it seems like it targets the players and not the creatures
I don't think it would because it seems like it targets the players and not the creatures
I see no target at all on Killing Wave. Autumn's Veil will not interfere.
114.9a Just because an object or player is being affected by a spell or ability doesn’t make that object or player a target of that spell or ability. Unless that object or player is identified by the word “target” in the text of that spell or ability, or the rule for that keyword ability, it’s not a target.
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Why bother with mere rulings when so many answers can be found in the Rules?
I don't think it would because it seems like it targets the players and not the creatures
A spell only targets when it explicitly uses the word "target". Killing Wave does not target anything, not the creatures, not the players, because it does not use the word "target". This is a hard rule.
(The only exception to this are aura spells which, when on the stack, target implicitly even though the word doesn't appear on the card.)
This is true and not true. Aura spells do target, and it doesn't say so on the card, because it is buried in the reminder text. There are cards with keyword like abilities that will not say target, but they will still target, because the word is buried in the reminder text, which will not always appear on the card.
That's why sometimes it is important to really know the keywords, so you will know if they target or not. But for spells and abilities that are not keyworded such as the ones mentioned, you will know if they target or not because they will either explicitly say target. If they don't say it, they don't do it.
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
I don't think it would because it seems like it targets the players and not the creatures
A spell only targets when it explicitly uses the word "target". Killing Wave does not target anything, not the creatures, not the players, because it does not use the word "target". This is a hard rule.
(The only exception to this are aura spells which, when on the stack, target implicitly even though the word doesn't appear on the card.)
This is true and not true. Aura spells do target, and it doesn't say so on the card, because it is buried in the reminder text. There are cards with keyword like abilities that will not say target, but they will still target, because the word is buried in the reminder text, which will not always appear on the card.
That's why sometimes it is important to really know the keywords, so you will know if they target or not. But for spells and abilities that are not keyworded such as the ones mentioned, you will know if they target or not because they will either explicitly say target. If they don't say it, they don't do it.
Reminder text has no rules meaning. It it just that: a reminder. It is in no way a complete description of the specific rules related to the cards effects. The only rules that do matter are the official, Comprehensive Rules, which fully list and explain the mechanics of things like Aura's and Bestow.
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"If you don't wear your seatbelt, the police will shoot you in the head."
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
Everyone knows that good luck and good game are such insincere terms that any man who does not connect his right hook with the offender's jaw on the very utterance of such a phrase is no man I would consider as such.
But the reminder texts does matter. It's in the rules.
207.2a Reminder text is italicized text within parentheses that summarizes a rule that applies to that card. It usually appears on the same line as the ability its relevant to, but it may appear on its own line if it applies to an aspect of the card other than an ability.
It summarizes the official ruling on it, so you don't have to stop and go grab a rule book to have fun. If there is reminder text, it will say the word target in it. If the reminder text doesn't say target, it wont target, because every card that has "target" in the official rules will include it in the reminder text, as that is a fairly big part of summarizing the rules of a card.
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Whats the big deal about black lotus you ask? Well you see, there is no big deal about it. It IS the big deal.
But the reminder texts does matter. It's in the rules.
207.2a Reminder text is italicized text within parentheses that summarizes a rule that applies to that card. It usually appears on the same line as the ability its relevant to, but it may appear on its own line if it applies to an aspect of the card other than an ability.
It summarizes the official ruling on it, so you don't have to stop and go grab a rule book to have fun. If there is reminder text, it will say the word target in it. If the reminder text doesn't say target, it wont target, because every card that has "target" in the official rules will include it in the reminder text, as that is a fairly big part of summarizing the rules of a card.
After searching Gatherer, your assertion that reminder text will always use the word "target" if a keyword ability targets appears to be correct. However, even though Wizards has followed this guideline, the rules don't require them to. If you look at the context of the rule you quoted above, you'll see why:
207.2. The text box may also contain italicized text that has no game function.
207.2a Reminder text is italicized text [. . .].
207.2b Flavor text is italicized text [. . .].
207.2c An ability word appears in italics at the beginning of some abilities. [. . .]
Ah, I see where the confusion is. The confusion lies in the ambiguity of the grouping of terms in rule 207.2. It can be interpreted two different ways:
The text box may also contain italicized text that has no game function, [but may also include italicized text that does have game function].
The text box may also contain italicized text that has no game function [by definition of what italicized text means in the context of the game].
To prove whether or not a card's italicized text has game function, take its text box, remove all instances of reminder, flavor, and ability word text from it, and see if it changes the functionality of the card at all. If it does, then italicized text does indeed have game function and rule 207.2 is incorrect; if nothing changes, then italicized text doesn't have game function and can be removed as necessary.
As we can see, the functionality of the cards within each pair do not change at all, regardless if the italicized text is there or not.
It's possible to iterate through this for every single card in existence, but what the conclusion will be is that no matter how much reminder text, ability word text, or flavor text you have, it is completely meaningless as far as rules are concerned. What keyword abilities do is linked not to the reminder text that follows it, but rather by the existence of the word printed on the card; the reminder text need not be there for equip or vigilance to do what it's supposed to do, it's the words "equip" and "vigilance" that have to be on the card for it to work.
How to use card tags (please use them for everybody's sanity)
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format Minimum deck size: 60 Maximum number of identical cards: 4 Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
Listen to what you are saying, and pay close attention.
The text box may contain italicized text that has no game function.
Reminder text IS italicized text.
flavor text is italicized text
An ability word appears in italics at the beginning of some abilities.
Does that make clear what italicized texts may also have no game function?
I hope that this is helpful.
The text that has no game function is flavor text. Reminder text and ability keywords still have game function.
In addition to what Thought Criminal said about reminder text and ability text, ability words that appear in italics at the beginning of some abilities also has no game function, it merely exists to highlight a theme in a set or block.
An example would be phosphorescent feast. The card functions identically, whether or not it has the ability word 'Chroma'. The same is true for all ability words (imprint, threshold, hellbent, heroic, etc.).
I see. In this case, the Glossary of the Comprehensive Rules explains things unambiguously.
Ability Word
An italicized word with no rules meaning that ties together abilities on different cards that have similar
functionality. See rule 207.2c.
[. . .]
Flavor Text
Text in italics (but not in parentheses) in the text box of a card that has no effect on play. See rule 207.2.
[. . .]
Reminder Text
Parenthetical text in italics in the text box of a card that summarizes a rule that applies to that card, but is
not actually rules text and has no effect on play. See rule 207.2.
Not exactly. All keyword abilities have their full definitions in the Comprehensive Rules. If the ability targets, then that will be explicitly stated in the rules, though the word "target" may not be on the card.
For example:
702.6. Equip
702.6a Equip is an activated ability of Equipment cards. “Equip [cost]” means “[Cost]: Attach this
permanent to target creature you control. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a
sorcery.”
So the most accurate version of what you wrote is, "a spell or ability only targets when it specifically uses the word 'target' or the rules text for that spell or ability uses the word 'target'".
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Would that protect his creatures from being affected? I don't think it would because it seems like it targets the players and not the creatures
[cards]Killing Wave
Autumn's Veil[/cards] ->
No, it would not.
I see no target at all on Killing Wave. Autumn's Veil will not interfere.
This is true and not true. Aura spells do target, and it doesn't say so on the card, because it is buried in the reminder text. There are cards with keyword like abilities that will not say target, but they will still target, because the word is buried in the reminder text, which will not always appear on the card.
That's why sometimes it is important to really know the keywords, so you will know if they target or not. But for spells and abilities that are not keyworded such as the ones mentioned, you will know if they target or not because they will either explicitly say target. If they don't say it, they don't do it.
Reminder text has no rules meaning. It it just that: a reminder. It is in no way a complete description of the specific rules related to the cards effects. The only rules that do matter are the official, Comprehensive Rules, which fully list and explain the mechanics of things like Aura's and Bestow.
- To my youngest sister when she was 6.
It summarizes the official ruling on it, so you don't have to stop and go grab a rule book to have fun. If there is reminder text, it will say the word target in it. If the reminder text doesn't say target, it wont target, because every card that has "target" in the official rules will include it in the reminder text, as that is a fairly big part of summarizing the rules of a card.
After searching Gatherer, your assertion that reminder text will always use the word "target" if a keyword ability targets appears to be correct. However, even though Wizards has followed this guideline, the rules don't require them to. If you look at the context of the rule you quoted above, you'll see why:
The text box may contain italicized text that has no game function.
Reminder text IS italicized text.
flavor text is italicized text
An ability word appears in italics at the beginning of some abilities.
Does that make clear what italicized texts may also have no game function?
I hope that this is helpful.
The text box may also contain italicized text that has no game function, [but may also include italicized text that does have game function].
The text box may also contain italicized text that has no game function [by definition of what italicized text means in the context of the game].
To prove whether or not a card's italicized text has game function, take its text box, remove all instances of reminder, flavor, and ability word text from it, and see if it changes the functionality of the card at all. If it does, then italicized text does indeed have game function and rule 207.2 is incorrect; if nothing changes, then italicized text doesn't have game function and can be removed as necessary.
As a few examples, consider the following printings of cards:
Lightning Bolt (M11) vs. Lightning Bolt (M10) (flavor text present versus flavor text absent)
Accorder's Shield (M14) vs. Accorder's Shield (SOM) (reminder texts of vigilance and equip present versus them being absent)
As we can see, the functionality of the cards within each pair do not change at all, regardless if the italicized text is there or not.
It's possible to iterate through this for every single card in existence, but what the conclusion will be is that no matter how much reminder text, ability word text, or flavor text you have, it is completely meaningless as far as rules are concerned. What keyword abilities do is linked not to the reminder text that follows it, but rather by the existence of the word printed on the card; the reminder text need not be there for equip or vigilance to do what it's supposed to do, it's the words "equip" and "vigilance" that have to be on the card for it to work.
[c]Lightning Bolt[/c] -> Lightning Bolt
[c=Lightning Bolt]Apple Pie[/c] -> Apple Pie
Vowels-Only Format
Minimum deck size: 60
Maximum number of identical cards: 4
Ban list: Cards whose English names begin with a consonant, Unglued and Unhinged cards, cards involving ante, Ancestral Recall
In addition to what Thought Criminal said about reminder text and ability text, ability words that appear in italics at the beginning of some abilities also has no game function, it merely exists to highlight a theme in a set or block.
An example would be phosphorescent feast. The card functions identically, whether or not it has the ability word 'Chroma'. The same is true for all ability words (imprint, threshold, hellbent, heroic, etc.).
For example:
So the most accurate version of what you wrote is, "a spell or ability only targets when it specifically uses the word 'target' or the rules text for that spell or ability uses the word 'target'".