Right now I have a 60 card deck running 21 lands. Now it is a three color so occasionally it does have a problem with colors, but rarely. My problem is for some reason no matter how I shuffle or seperate or stack shuffle I still get mana pockets 4-6 lands deep throughout. I either get mana flooded or screwed. So my question is. Is destiny telling me not to play this deck or am I just not shuffling right? My 21 land MGD, 26 land Izzet Tempo, and 22 land Boros Heroic work great. Why oh why janitor this one that is a pain. Help!!!!
Are you running any foils? This might effect the way you shuffle, if all else fails you can always just go back through after every match and break up your mana, no I don't mean weave, just search for the pockets and break them up.
Unless you're hyper aggressive, 21 lands are too low. And Mana pockets do happen. It's a part of what randomization does. Don't worry about it. If you know with any degree of certainty it will never happen, then you're not shuffling properly.
A note: stack shuffling (known as pile shuffling as well) is not an effective way to shuffle at all. Don't do this unless you plan to do a proper shuffle afterwards. This shuffling doesn't randomize properly, and is pointless to do beyond counting cards. A mash and/or riffle are superior.
After stack shuffling I always mash shuffle after. Usually 2 or 3 times. Thanks for the advice! I might add 2 more land and see what happens. Thanks again!
In a three-color deck, you should realistically be running 23-24 lands versus the 21 you currently have. This will also depend on how greedy your cards are (how many cards need two of the same color and how many cards like this need different colors). If you are trying to support, for example, Obzedat and Chandra in the same deck, you may even want 25 lands. A decklist would certainly help for advice.
On the shuffling issue - break up land pockets between games and mash or riffle several times.
Weave/mash/riffle?? I don't mean to sound ignorant, but well, I am!
Weave: you certainly have done or see someone alternated land-nonland-nonland-land cards in the decks to have an "even" distribution of cards. This is called "mana weaving". Don't do this.
Mash shuffle: shuffling like this. You take about half the deck in each hand, then mash them together.
Riffle shuffle: shuffling this way. Needs more practice than mash shuffling.
Weave/mash/riffle?? I don't mean to sound ignorant, but well, I am!
Weave: you certainly have done or see someone alternated land-nonland-nonland-land cards in the decks to have an "even" distribution of cards. This is called "mana weaving". Don't do this.
Why not ? Mana Weaving is fine and you should absolutely do this whenever all or most of your lands and other cards in your deck are either sorted or heavily unbalanced (happens with some combo or control decks). However you always need to do several, thorough "normal" shuffles afterwards, both to avert cheating or accidently getting an advantage and to truely randomize your deck - which ties back into the last point.
If Mana Weaving helps your card draws in any way, you just cheated.
If you "normal" shuffle properly, you just completely randomized your entire deck. Whether you completely randomize your deck after you mana weave or after you mana weave, you still end up with a completely randomized deck -- so why do it at all?
You can take a stack of 25 land and place it on top of a stack of 35 nonland cards, shuffle properly, and it will be completely randomized.
If you're mana weaving before you normal shuffle, all your doing is wasting time and giving the impression that you're cheating.
After stack shuffling I always mash shuffle after. Usually 2 or 3 times. Thanks for the advice! I might add 2 more land and see what happens. Thanks again!
2 or 3 shuffles is not going to randomize your deck very well. Take all that time you waste stack shuffling to shuffle properly and could easily do it a dozen times.
Weave/mash/riffle?? I don't mean to sound ignorant, but well, I am!
Weave: you certainly have done or see someone alternated land-nonland-nonland-land cards in the decks to have an "even" distribution of cards. This is called "mana weaving". Don't do this.
Why not ? Mana Weaving is fine and you should absolutely do this whenever all or most of your lands and other cards in your deck are either sorted or heavily unbalanced (happens with some combo or control decks). However you always need to do several, thorough "normal" shuffles afterwards, both to avert cheating or accidently getting an advantage and to truely randomize your deck - which ties back into the last point.
If Mana Weaving helps your card draws in any way, you just cheated.
If you "normal" shuffle properly, you just completely randomized your entire deck. Whether you completely randomize your deck after you mana weave or after you mana weave, you still end up with a completely randomized deck -- so why do it at all?
You can take a stack of 25 land and place it on top of a stack of 35 nonland cards, shuffle properly, and it will be completely randomized.
If you're mana weaving before you normal shuffle, all your doing is wasting time and giving the impression that you're cheating.
I would never cheat or try to cheat in any way. I only use mana weaving to speed up the randomization process if my entire deck is sorted, since it would require a vast amount of normal shuffles to not get a significantly disadvantage by leaving lots of land pockets in your deck.
I'm not talking about getting an avantage here, I'm talking about not severly hampering myself after I sorted my entire deck (I don't do this before tournaments or between rounds, I only do this when I create a new deck from scratch or do a major overhaul with lots of resleeving).
It's basically just a move to make me feel less bad when I get mana screwed although it doesn't technically do anything, it's just a pile shuffle to speed up the randomization.
Mathematically speaking, it takes exactly 7 shuffles to sufficiently randomize any deck which began in any order; partially sorted, completely sorted, or otherwise. A "vast amount of normal shuffles" is a gross exaggeration.
Shuffling 7 times takes barely any time at all. How much time are you actually saving when you mana weave your entire deck and then begin to shuffle normally anyway. My guess is that you're probably taking up more time by doing it that way.
This has been posted many times on these forums and if you Google it, you can find the exact same answer from numerous sources all over the internet.
edit: Also, if you mana weave your deck and then normal shuffle less than 7 times, then you did just gave yourself an advantage and you have just cheated (intentionally or not). If you sit down with an opponent, if they mana weave their deck, and then if they only normal shuffle 2-3 times, when they present their deck for you to cut/shuffle, you should pick it up and give it a thorough shuffle.
This thread started simple but there is so MUCH information here that is good for players. I didn't know about the whole mana weave then shuffle a minimum of 7 times. I also never knew that there is no need when you are still doing complete randomization .. Good stuff.
This thread started simple but there is so MUCH information here that is good for players. I didn't know about the whole mana weave then shuffle a minimum of 7 times. I also never knew that there is no need when you are still doing complete randomization .. Good stuff.
I have to agree with this. Although familiar w/ the 'how', of weaving, mashing, and riffling, I was never familiar with the terms. They were just things my brother did after making a deck to distribute cards. Never put 2 & 2 together.
Weave/mash/riffle?? I don't mean to sound ignorant, but well, I am!
Weave: you certainly have done or see someone alternated land-nonland-nonland-land cards in the decks to have an "even" distribution of cards. This is called "mana weaving". Don't do this.
Why not ? Mana Weaving is fine
No, it isn't.
and you should absolutely do this whenever all or most of your lands and other cards in your deck are either sorted or heavily unbalanced (happens with some combo or control decks). However you always need to do several, thorough "normal" shuffles afterwards, both to avert cheating or accidently getting an advantage and to truely randomize your deck - which ties back into the last point.
Or you can also do no weave, and just thoroughly shuffle the deck. Same end result (a 'truely randomized deck'), so I fail to see why weaving is not only 'fine' and justified but somehow something you 'should absolutely' do.
I would never cheat or try to cheat in any way. I only use mana weaving to speed up the randomization process if my entire deck is sorted, since it would require a vast amount of normal shuffles to not get a significantly disadvantage by leaving lots of land pockets in your deck.
Weaving is not randomizing. A deck were ALL lands are close together and a WEAVED deck are both equally 'sorted', equally UNrandomized. BOTH need the same amount of shuffling to become randomized.
So, don't weave. Just shuffle.
I'm not talking about getting an avantage here, I'm talking about not severly hampering myself after I sorted my entire deck (I don't do this before tournaments or between rounds, I only do this when I create a new deck from scratch or do a major overhaul with lots of resleeving).
In your previous post you sure sounded like this was something you should do every time, particularly with "with some combo or control decks".
It's basically just a move to make me feel less bad when I get mana screwed although it doesn't technically do anything, it's just a pile shuffle to speed up the randomization.
Oh, a placebo, something to make you more confident, like a lucky charm. This is the only point that make some sense.
Still not a good idea. Looks too much like cheating and as you said has no real impact on the deck (and as proven above, does nothing to "speed" the process).
So, again, don't weave. Just shuffle it all at once.
This is a general observation I've made: The vast majority of Magic players use far too little lands. I'm most comfortable with at least 25 lands in Constructed and 40 in EDH.
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A note: stack shuffling (known as pile shuffling as well) is not an effective way to shuffle at all. Don't do this unless you plan to do a proper shuffle afterwards. This shuffling doesn't randomize properly, and is pointless to do beyond counting cards. A mash and/or riffle are superior.
On the shuffling issue - break up land pockets between games and mash or riffle several times.
Weave: you certainly have done or see someone alternated land-nonland-nonland-land cards in the decks to have an "even" distribution of cards. This is called "mana weaving". Don't do this.
Mash shuffle: shuffling like this. You take about half the deck in each hand, then mash them together.
Riffle shuffle: shuffling this way. Needs more practice than mash shuffling.
@auggie- I started doing that and it fixed my problem. Deck runs great now. Again thanks!!
If Mana Weaving helps your card draws in any way, you just cheated.
If you "normal" shuffle properly, you just completely randomized your entire deck. Whether you completely randomize your deck after you mana weave or after you mana weave, you still end up with a completely randomized deck -- so why do it at all?
You can take a stack of 25 land and place it on top of a stack of 35 nonland cards, shuffle properly, and it will be completely randomized.
If you're mana weaving before you normal shuffle, all your doing is wasting time and giving the impression that you're cheating.
Thread | Draft
2 or 3 shuffles is not going to randomize your deck very well. Take all that time you waste stack shuffling to shuffle properly and could easily do it a dozen times.
Mathematically speaking, it takes exactly 7 shuffles to sufficiently randomize any deck which began in any order; partially sorted, completely sorted, or otherwise. A "vast amount of normal shuffles" is a gross exaggeration.
Shuffling 7 times takes barely any time at all. How much time are you actually saving when you mana weave your entire deck and then begin to shuffle normally anyway. My guess is that you're probably taking up more time by doing it that way.
This has been posted many times on these forums and if you Google it, you can find the exact same answer from numerous sources all over the internet.
edit: Also, if you mana weave your deck and then normal shuffle less than 7 times, then you did just gave yourself an advantage and you have just cheated (intentionally or not). If you sit down with an opponent, if they mana weave their deck, and then if they only normal shuffle 2-3 times, when they present their deck for you to cut/shuffle, you should pick it up and give it a thorough shuffle.
Thread | Draft
I have to agree with this. Although familiar w/ the 'how', of weaving, mashing, and riffling, I was never familiar with the terms. They were just things my brother did after making a deck to distribute cards. Never put 2 & 2 together.
No, it isn't.
Or you can also do no weave, and just thoroughly shuffle the deck. Same end result (a 'truely randomized deck'), so I fail to see why weaving is not only 'fine' and justified but somehow something you 'should absolutely' do.
Weaving is not randomizing. A deck were ALL lands are close together and a WEAVED deck are both equally 'sorted', equally UNrandomized. BOTH need the same amount of shuffling to become randomized.
So, don't weave. Just shuffle.
In your previous post you sure sounded like this was something you should do every time, particularly with "with some combo or control decks".
Oh, a placebo, something to make you more confident, like a lucky charm. This is the only point that make some sense.
Still not a good idea. Looks too much like cheating and as you said has no real impact on the deck (and as proven above, does nothing to "speed" the process).
So, again, don't weave. Just shuffle it all at once.