You do know that your old versions wouldnt lose value nearly as much as you think they would? A new printing of Volcanic Island wont suddenly help people wanting to make a Beta set. Hell it probably wouldnt even look half as good as the old border with the dual color text box, leaving the older versions more desirable.
Yes, and at the same time, no. Two examples to show both our points would be Imperial Seal and Tarmogoyf.
Seal is just another Vampiric Tutor, Nothing special there, but the reason Seal is so costly is almost solely due to it's collectors value; its rare, rarer in english. At a players point of view, there is no honest reason the card is 100s of percents higher in cost, to collectors, its perfectly sensible.
But then look at Tarmogoyf. Its on no restricted list. Its relatively new. Other than its pre-mythic-quota low print run it shouldnt have been hard to get one. But what happened? Players wanted it. Collectors want it (if they collect for cost of card) because it's valuable, and the only reason its worth more than the $5 when it was released is because every eternal format player wants 4 four of them.
Final point is, while a card will retain some of its value do to when it came out, other rarity factors, etc, value isnt based solely on when it came out or the conditions of its existence (blue Hurricane from edgar). NOR is it based solely on the simple aspect of supply and demand vs its usefulness (the price fluctuations of Karn Liberated) It relies on both. So i bought a NM Unlimited Black Lotus for $1000. Cool. But if they reprint them, do you really think they would STAY at 1K? No, because some of the reason the value is so high is because PLAYERS want them, not just collectors. Not saying that it'll drop to $10, but even a drop to $800 means i lost $200 of an investment that would have otherwise increased had the card not have been reprinted.
Still your newly printed Imperial Seal wont complete that old P3K set, so the rarity is still there. The collectors and even players that dont like new borders or want to pimp their deck will still pay the premium for the older versions. There is a reason that the old shock lands are still 20$+ while the new ones are not really worth much and continue to go down.
And Im going to say buying magic cards as an investment is stupid. You want to invest in something, buy some gold, not cardboard game pieces.
Yes reserve list in pretty stupid. Saying player X can't get access to more powerful cards because they didn't play when it came out is silly. Sure they can buy some over priced card if they are inclined but then you start getting into "play to win" territory. I wouldn't care if my cards went down in value because I don't put money into magic as an investment I put money into magic cause it's fun to play.
No, I do not play legacy and do not want my old cards to be worth less. I do not personally like old cards so I would not play with them if they were reprinted, but the ones that I do have are gradually increasing in price until someday I can sell them all and buy lots of new cards that I want! This is my investment plan at least.
If Magic is an investment plan for you, you might want to take a lesson in basic monetary skills. I sincerely wish there were no players like you in this game. You are the people who, sometimes, I wonder; "Are they just saying no to be contrary?"
If you want to make money, sell your cards, then go play a different game, like poker. If you want to play Magic, play Magic and be happy when more players are encouraged to join the game due to falling prices. If you want to play Magic, but make money off of older cards only, then get out.
The playerbase you fall into is ruining the game for anyone who wants to play a different format than you. On another side of the spectrum you seem to be on, Imagine if they stopped making cards for any format other than Legacy, because a tiny percent of the players don't like other formats. That is the exact same situation, but reversed. I hope you gain some level of giving a crap about other players of this game. Otherwise, please quit and go play pickup 52 in your spare time.
- Good Day.
For what it's worth, the opposite of evergreen is "deciduous" so I suggest we start using that from now on to refer to shroud, banding, islandhome, etc.
No, I do not play legacy and do not want my old cards to be worth less. I do not personally like old cards so I would not play with them if they were reprinted, but the ones that I do have are gradually increasing in price until someday I can sell them all and buy lots of new cards that I want! This is my investment plan at least.
So you're saying basically that you don't give a crap about the huge barrier of entry to Vintage/Legacy? You don't care if the formats die, so long as your cards retain value? Let me tell you something then: if these formats die out of players, all your old cards' values will drop to zero, since there would be no demand for them, after all the formats are dead. You just said "I don't have a Porsche, but I don't want anyone else to have one either!"
Gasp... the older so called pimp versions of the cards will be still intriguing to be acquired. It doesn't matter how many new ones printed. Look at the different prices exactly on the same shock lands that you mentioned. And the prices will probably will become even higher once RtR rotates out of Standard. WotC just had to print them in enough large quantities so that Modern could become more playable and not suffer the same fate as Legacy due to the lack of cards. Before the reprinting some of the card's prices were up to about 30$. The older ones will probably stabilize at that point again some time in the future. They can reprint the **** out of Black Lotus and even than the Alpha & Beta once won't even blink in their prices.
Also - remember that this is firstly a game and second a game with collectible aspect. If you wish to collect something rare or expensive about it, be my guest - buy into P9. It least in my area there's zero chance for ever being a competitive Vintage event. So I wouldn't mind. But if or when those cards are reprinted you would still have the collectible value of the old ones and the people who actually want to play the game will be able to do so with the newer ones, that probably will nothing like the old ones.
Seriously I can't even believe that 43 people answered with No. I mean is this forum so full of hoarders/speculators or people with no insight on the topic?
This. Look at Tarmogoyf. It will be reprinted with a modern card frame, however the futureshifted version will probably retain its value due to players wanting to pimp their decks out. It's always cooler to use the original printings of the cards. Hence why Alpha/Beta/Unlimited Birds of Paradise are still worth $40+, despite being reprinted for nearly two decades.
as both a player AND a collector i'm always at odds with myself over the restricted list. i quit playing standard a few years ago and have been focused on the eternal formats. (saves money in the long run. keeps the missus happy) i would LOVE to be able to open a pack and nab that long sought after 4th Volcanic Island but as a collector, i would be mad as all get out if they suddenly reprinted them, even in a limited way. i've been collecting one ofs for every card worth over $300 in the rarest form of the card, barring mistakes (like Edgar) all truth told if i can complete my list and keep the cards safe, by the time my daughter is old enough she can pay her way through college. the list was made to protect the investments people have made in their cards, and though the prices have skyrocketed for certain ones because of barring reprint, hindsight is 20/20. with Modern Masters coming out to compensate for the goyf and bob hunters out there, WoTC have finally started to figure out how to keep value of card high for collectors, yet still allow new players a chance to obtain them without breaking the bank. finally. as in now. they didnt have this wealth of knowledge they do now. if they did, i guarantee they would have said, "dont worry, we have a system to keep value up and and availability up as well." I hate that i have to carry my vintage deck in a locked pelican case because it's SO DAMN EXPENSIVE in there, but at the same time, i'm glad that when my day to quit comes, i'll be a wealthier man from all the fun i've had all these years.
I'm going to say this again. Magic is NOT the stock market. Pieces of cardboard are NOT an investment, and should not be regarded as such. What if Vintage and Legacy died out and demand for your volcanic islands lost all of their worth? What if, someday, the reserved list gets to know the bin? It's incredibly selfish to hoard cards like this and prevent other players from getting into eternal formats. It's people like you who are driving these formats to their deaths. If you want to make an investment, you're much better off buying stocks or investing in a startup company or anything of the sort. The money you would spend on insurance for those cards could pay your daughter's college on the long term. Why bother, then?
Some of Magic's appeal is that the cards are collectible and have value. Certain cards are worth more and certain versions of those cards are worth even more. I understand all of that. However, like people have said: it is a game and the reason these cards are worth anything is from people playing the game. Collectors do not affect prices.
My playgroup has something like 50 dual lands at our disposal. I don't need them to reprint duals for me to have access, and if they do I'll probably lose some value. Yet I know that if they don't come up with a solution for making dual lands more accessible then the Legacy market may crash and I could lose a lot more than "some value." Not to mention that it would be a sad thing if one of the most diverse and playskill intensive formats that Magic has seen were to disappear.
I don't like the reserve list, but I'm not even asking them to break it. Make "snow duals" for all I care, but there exist solutions out there to fix Legacy accessibility. As a player (with a more valuable collection than many "collectors"), I fervently hope they look into those solutions.
The reserve list exists as an anti player publicity stunt. When old MTG cards hit new highs it drives investor and speculator curiosity.
MTG collectors don't care about value. They care about rarity of the print, reprinting won't threaten that. Alpha and beta prints won't be significantly effected.
MTG has significant volume currently driven by non player, non collector individuals.
I think for the health of the game they need to stop pandering to non players, and non collectors. Speculators use this darn reserved list to perform card buyouts to drive up price, it's so flipping dumb. Wizards loves when black lotus hits a new high and is all over the news...
I think for legacy formats they need to reprint or remake the dual lands(and keep reprinting the shock lands and fetch lands.) Right now 5 color decks are so expensive to run in Commander.
But honestly the power 9 should be reprinted in a non gold border from the vault for the formats that use it.
Wizards #1 fastest growing format is legacy (Commander) and they need to level the playing field.
But the way they manage the modern Masters and other Masters products... The fact they are bringing back editions... How they design Commander and from the vault products...
Wizards has no idea what it's doing.
Edit: To be more specific by what I mean, the set design has been ok (granted the pure volume of Jank in each set is getting ridiculous) the real issue has been individual card designs, rules adjustments (think all the legendary adjustments in the past bit) and product design (meaning product price uni formally, and composition for precon products)
Legacy has been exploding. All my local card shops have Commander nights, and in my college town Commander nights out strip standard and drafting formats 2 to 1. Wizards needs to realize people leave standard because its too expensive and if Commander cost continues to rise they will just plane loose players. Wizards thinks they can squeeze more money out of a player by with holding value but in reality consumers work with fixed budget. If they don't get value for their budget then they can't play then they leave. Its why I've stepped back in the past and it is the #1 complaint leveled at the game.
I'm sorry for that rant, but that bleeds into how wizards has struggled with legacy formats. How their "reserved list" is a declaration of ignorance about something that is important to actual players. Spectators don't drive the stinking MTG marketplace and creating something to empower them like a reserve list is plain dumb.
Their is so much opportunity in reprinting cards... just look at the success of the insanely over priced masters products and from the vault products. We aren't even discerning in our need for reprints. Just think if they were priced better and designed better what they could accomplish.
I see allot of people on this thread refer to collectors as investors by sighting card value... collectors, investors, players, are not the same. Collectors are concerned with rarity, specifically print rarity. Investors are concerned with value. Players, well they are the work horse of the whole engine.
Collectors are not hurt by reprints, as value is not their driving logic.
Investors (the leaches of the game) are hurt, and should be hurt, by reprints.
Players... we love a good reprint.
I'm a player/collector with lots of old cards and I say reprint them darn it! Doesn't effect my collection a lick. More over it hurts those jerks the investors.
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Yes, and at the same time, no. Two examples to show both our points would be Imperial Seal and Tarmogoyf.
Seal is just another Vampiric Tutor, Nothing special there, but the reason Seal is so costly is almost solely due to it's collectors value; its rare, rarer in english. At a players point of view, there is no honest reason the card is 100s of percents higher in cost, to collectors, its perfectly sensible.
But then look at Tarmogoyf. Its on no restricted list. Its relatively new. Other than its pre-mythic-quota low print run it shouldnt have been hard to get one. But what happened? Players wanted it. Collectors want it (if they collect for cost of card) because it's valuable, and the only reason its worth more than the $5 when it was released is because every eternal format player wants 4 four of them.
Final point is, while a card will retain some of its value do to when it came out, other rarity factors, etc, value isnt based solely on when it came out or the conditions of its existence (blue Hurricane from edgar). NOR is it based solely on the simple aspect of supply and demand vs its usefulness (the price fluctuations of Karn Liberated) It relies on both. So i bought a NM Unlimited Black Lotus for $1000. Cool. But if they reprint them, do you really think they would STAY at 1K? No, because some of the reason the value is so high is because PLAYERS want them, not just collectors. Not saying that it'll drop to $10, but even a drop to $800 means i lost $200 of an investment that would have otherwise increased had the card not have been reprinted.
...............Ф↑ Sioux at Heroes of the Plane Studios ↑Ф
And Im going to say buying magic cards as an investment is stupid. You want to invest in something, buy some gold, not cardboard game pieces.
If Magic is an investment plan for you, you might want to take a lesson in basic monetary skills. I sincerely wish there were no players like you in this game. You are the people who, sometimes, I wonder; "Are they just saying no to be contrary?"
If you want to make money, sell your cards, then go play a different game, like poker. If you want to play Magic, play Magic and be happy when more players are encouraged to join the game due to falling prices. If you want to play Magic, but make money off of older cards only, then get out.
The playerbase you fall into is ruining the game for anyone who wants to play a different format than you. On another side of the spectrum you seem to be on, Imagine if they stopped making cards for any format other than Legacy, because a tiny percent of the players don't like other formats. That is the exact same situation, but reversed. I hope you gain some level of giving a crap about other players of this game. Otherwise, please quit and go play pickup 52 in your spare time.
- Good Day.
Quotes:
So you're saying basically that you don't give a crap about the huge barrier of entry to Vintage/Legacy? You don't care if the formats die, so long as your cards retain value? Let me tell you something then: if these formats die out of players, all your old cards' values will drop to zero, since there would be no demand for them, after all the formats are dead. You just said "I don't have a Porsche, but I don't want anyone else to have one either!"
This. Look at Tarmogoyf. It will be reprinted with a modern card frame, however the futureshifted version will probably retain its value due to players wanting to pimp their decks out. It's always cooler to use the original printings of the cards. Hence why Alpha/Beta/Unlimited Birds of Paradise are still worth $40+, despite being reprinted for nearly two decades.
I'm going to say this again. Magic is NOT the stock market. Pieces of cardboard are NOT an investment, and should not be regarded as such. What if Vintage and Legacy died out and demand for your volcanic islands lost all of their worth? What if, someday, the reserved list gets to know the bin? It's incredibly selfish to hoard cards like this and prevent other players from getting into eternal formats. It's people like you who are driving these formats to their deaths. If you want to make an investment, you're much better off buying stocks or investing in a startup company or anything of the sort. The money you would spend on insurance for those cards could pay your daughter's college on the long term. Why bother, then?
UB Sacrifice
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Modern
UB Tezzerator
Clint Cearley ♥
My playgroup has something like 50 dual lands at our disposal. I don't need them to reprint duals for me to have access, and if they do I'll probably lose some value. Yet I know that if they don't come up with a solution for making dual lands more accessible then the Legacy market may crash and I could lose a lot more than "some value." Not to mention that it would be a sad thing if one of the most diverse and playskill intensive formats that Magic has seen were to disappear.
I don't like the reserve list, but I'm not even asking them to break it. Make "snow duals" for all I care, but there exist solutions out there to fix Legacy accessibility. As a player (with a more valuable collection than many "collectors"), I fervently hope they look into those solutions.
MTG collectors don't care about value. They care about rarity of the print, reprinting won't threaten that. Alpha and beta prints won't be significantly effected.
MTG has significant volume currently driven by non player, non collector individuals.
I think for the health of the game they need to stop pandering to non players, and non collectors. Speculators use this darn reserved list to perform card buyouts to drive up price, it's so flipping dumb. Wizards loves when black lotus hits a new high and is all over the news...
I think for legacy formats they need to reprint or remake the dual lands(and keep reprinting the shock lands and fetch lands.) Right now 5 color decks are so expensive to run in Commander.
But honestly the power 9 should be reprinted in a non gold border from the vault for the formats that use it.
Wizards #1 fastest growing format is legacy (Commander) and they need to level the playing field.
But the way they manage the modern Masters and other Masters products... The fact they are bringing back editions... How they design Commander and from the vault products...
Wizards has no idea what it's doing.
Edit: To be more specific by what I mean, the set design has been ok (granted the pure volume of Jank in each set is getting ridiculous) the real issue has been individual card designs, rules adjustments (think all the legendary adjustments in the past bit) and product design (meaning product price uni formally, and composition for precon products)
Legacy has been exploding. All my local card shops have Commander nights, and in my college town Commander nights out strip standard and drafting formats 2 to 1. Wizards needs to realize people leave standard because its too expensive and if Commander cost continues to rise they will just plane loose players. Wizards thinks they can squeeze more money out of a player by with holding value but in reality consumers work with fixed budget. If they don't get value for their budget then they can't play then they leave. Its why I've stepped back in the past and it is the #1 complaint leveled at the game.
I'm sorry for that rant, but that bleeds into how wizards has struggled with legacy formats. How their "reserved list" is a declaration of ignorance about something that is important to actual players. Spectators don't drive the stinking MTG marketplace and creating something to empower them like a reserve list is plain dumb.
Their is so much opportunity in reprinting cards... just look at the success of the insanely over priced masters products and from the vault products. We aren't even discerning in our need for reprints. Just think if they were priced better and designed better what they could accomplish.
Collectors are not hurt by reprints, as value is not their driving logic.
Investors (the leaches of the game) are hurt, and should be hurt, by reprints.
Players... we love a good reprint.
I'm a player/collector with lots of old cards and I say reprint them darn it! Doesn't effect my collection a lick. More over it hurts those jerks the investors.