Hey guys, so lets debate. I want to see if anyone agrees with me on ANY of these at all, or if im just plain crazy
Now assuming these cards are in the decks they are supposed to be in...
My top 5 planeswalkers in standard right now are:
Number 1: Liliana of the Veil!
REASON: To me she just seems like she is the best. She is a VERY good control card in my opinion, and this gives Mono-black-control a huge edge. Discarding a card and a creature sac is a pretty big win for the player controlling her.
Number 2: Gideon Jura!
REASON: Gideon is a very versatile card. Another very good control card but also has some offense to it as im sure everyone is aware of. Make an opponent tap out all his creatures essentially, destroy a tapped creature or make HIMSELF a creature and attack with it, making him harder to kill since he prevents any damage that turn.
Number 3: Tamiyo, the Moon Sage!
REASON: Well side from being my personal favorite planeswalker and possibly my most favorite card in standard right now... I think she is every control players number #1 fan. Taps a PERMANENT, until the opponents next next untap step, drawing a card for each tapped creature for an opponent, or the ultimate of ultimates, lets make every single card come back to the hand after use, i love recycling She can control, then push you forward with card draw, and hopefully keep pushing you forward after that.
Number 4: Ajani, Caller of the Pride!
REASON: I know what some of you are thinking, why the hell is he number 4?!?!? Well im one person so feel free to argue, but he comes into play for 1ww for 4 already! then your probably going to make him a 5 on turn 3 by adding a counter UP TO one creature, meaning you can do it with no creatures, SAWEET! Now the minus 3 ability i don't think will see a lot of play, but flying and double strike is awesome! the minus ultimate ability is ridiculous as we all know, but ajani had to follow SOMETHING involving your life total, this time we make flying cats..... kinda just a little random but ajani is a cat i guess
this is a tough call but i think mr 5 goes too...
Number 5: Elspeth Tirel!
REASON: Ya i know, if you don't have any creatures that her first ability does nothing... but i mean.. lets face it... now that rhox faithmender is in standard i think she might see a little bit more play before the rotation. Minus ability, its always nice to get some chump blockers and hopefully keep them around long enough to gain life off of them. and if her get to her ultimate (which is pretty easy being -5 and all), destroy everything except lands and tokens, thats just freaking dandy lol
Well guys, lets here some rebuttals, what does everyone else think?
I pretty much agree with you, but Ajani isn't going to last for very long on the list. he'll be awesome in the future, but right now W has too many other good 3 drops that it would rather play, like Blade Splicer and Geist.
Tamiyo is my favorite from playing with you often. I've gotten her Ult off and it's GG. I'll miss Gideon very very much... they were best friends.
I think Karn is probably the most powerful, but Liliana of the Veil and Gideon are also extremely powerful, just in different decks. I can't really say whether Karn or Lili is better, Gideon probably comes in third, though.
After that, probably Tamiyo, then maybe the new Ajani. Garruk Relentless deserves honorable mention for being psuedo-removal in green, and for his fantastic ability to protect himself.
I pretty much agree with you, but Ajani isn't going to last for very long on the list. he'll be awesome in the future, but right now W has too many other good 3 drops that it would rather play, like Blade Splicer and Geist.
Tamiyo is my favorite from playing with you often. I've gotten her Ult off and it's GG. I'll miss Gideon very very much... they were best friends.
Instead of Ajani, I'd vote Karn.
ya i agree, the three drop spot is pretty packed, he will indeed be better in the future.
Karn is really good right now in any ramp deck, like i said below i never noticed how soon the ultimate could go off...
I think Karn is probably the most powerful, but Liliana of the Veil and Gideon are also extremely powerful, just in different decks. I can't really say whether Karn or Lili is better, Gideon probably comes in third, though.
After that, probably Tamiyo, then maybe the new Ajani. Garruk Relentless deserves honorable mention for being psuedo-removal in green, and for his fantastic ability to protect himself.
i was considering karn as the number 5, but why do you think he deserves to be number #1 or #2? i mean 7 mana for a 6 planeswalker is a good deal in general, i didnt notice that on turn 3 you could crack his ultimate assuming you +4 2 turns and protected him... that might change things for me. i am playing elf ramp right now in standard and this could be good...
Liliana. Playing her then getting to use her plus is just soooo good
i have actually never played her, so i wouldn't know. My buddies LOVE her though, and i see how she works A LOT. So i figured i better give credit where its due lol
Just like T2 use a kill spell end of turn, T3 play Liliana, put her at 4. If they don't have a hasty dude, you can just kill it with her, and if they just don't play any dude you eat their hand. Then as she slowly gets to 6, they need to somehow kill her off, but anything they play just dies to her. She is just essentially incremental card advantage, but she can really take over a game. Control decks have to decide whether to make a land drop and discard gas, or discard a land and miss a droP. I feel so invincible when I can plus 1 her
i was considering karn as the number 5, but why do you think he deserves to be number #1 or #2? i mean 7 mana for a 6 planeswalker is a good deal in general, i didnt notice that on turn 3 you could crack his ultimate assuming you +4 2 turns and protected him... that might change things for me. i am playing elf ramp right now in standard and this could be good...
Karn is expensive to cast, but he's also colorless, and in control or ramp decks, he's one of the best finishers available because he is so very difficult to answer and just takes over the game. He's also crazy in Modern (which doesn't necessarily count for the purposes of this thread, but it's helpful to evaluate a card's overall power level). It's very, very difficult to come back against a Karn that comes down before turn 5 (and sometimes as early as turn 3).
The other planeswalkers on the list are also very powerful, but relatively easier to come back against, so that's why I chose Karn.
It is a difficult call, though. Liliana is also powerful, but her power comes from how early she can hit the battlefield and eek out an advantage over time. It's tough to compare her power level to Karn's because they are powerful for such different reasons. It's like comparing the power level of Snapcaster to the power level of Griselbrand - both are insanely good, but very, very different.
Karn is expensive to cast, but he's also colorless, and in control or ramp decks, he's one of the best finishers available because he is so very difficult to answer and just takes over the game. He's also crazy in Modern (which doesn't necessarily count for the purposes of this thread, but it's helpful to evaluate a card's overall power level). It's very, very difficult to come back against a Karn that comes down before turn 5 (and sometimes as early as turn 3).
The other planeswalkers on the list are also very powerful, but relatively easier to come back against, so that's why I chose Karn.
It is a difficult call, though. Liliana is also powerful, but her power comes from how early she can hit the battlefield and eek out an advantage over time. It's tough to compare her power level to Karn's because they are powerful for such different reasons. It's like comparing the power level of Snapcaster to the power level of Griselbrand - both are insanely good, but very, very different.
ya you have good points, being colorless is pretty awesome in ramp decks. i never fully understood how he worked until recently, so i might change it up just a little. as i said maybe i can grab a couple to put in the elf deck. ramping into him could be a lot of fun as you said.
Liliana of the veil
Tomiyo, the moon sage
Ajani, caller of the pride
After this is gets really muddled...some are situationally good (koth, Venser, Elspeth, Gideon) but none really stand out as a powerhouse in most decks that could play them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Decks
Standard BEtched Champion/InfectB WSoilders/knightsW WUVenser SplicerWU RRDWR GFeed the Pack comboG WUPool of ExhaustionWU
EDH GEzuri, Elf OverrunG BGeth, GraverobberB UThada Adel, ThiefU RUrabrask, Big RedR WElesh Norn, CrusadeW WUGAngus Makenzie, Bant ControlWUG
Liliana of the Veil (takes total control of the early game)
Gideon Jura (amazing with sweepers and stall decks)
Karn Liberated (no explanation needed)
Garruk, Primal Hunter (that -3 is criminally underrated)
Elspeth Tirel (timely reinforcements that keeps on giving)
It depends on what deck each is in though, as they all have their particular strengths.
It's amazing to me how many different planeswalkers are in the same standard environment right now. I remember when they were released in Lorwyn, we thought there'd never be more than 5 at once, lol... we were wrong.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Amazing Avy & Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios [4/22/11]
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Shuts down yo ****, ****s up your couch with some draw, then can recycle your counter spells and what ever else you want just because she ****ing can.
Liliana of the Veil
Lose your stuff, theyflashtheirsback, then you lose more possibly more important stuff, and then you lose (half of) all your ****. What the ****, man?
Karn Liberated
Why? Because Karn says: "**** you, I'm the best control finisher out there because I can finish even when it looks like you're possibly losing." Destroy your opponent's field while setting you up for a kill? Nice.
Ajani, Caller of the Pride
Just because everyone else thinks so, and because he's cool in white weenie. I personally think his and Garruk, Primal Hunter's token abilities are the most brutal/abusable in the right kinds of decks.
Garruk Relentless
So much utility. Seriously. First you get 2/2 tokens, alright. They're okay... Then there's the fight ability, which not only can kill a Snapcaster, Huntmaster, Splicer, or whatever the **** else you need dead, but then he unlocks a whole brand-****in'-new tool set! This swiss army knife features a SECOND kind of token that is arguably better than the previous due to the death touch clause and reference to the devil/death, then it also has a tutor so you can swap out your 2/2 with a 6/6, a better 2/2, or whatever else the hell you want! Geez, man take your pick! Then he can end games with his blackified overrun. You hear that? Game. ****ing. Over.
I use the Duels Of The Planeswalkers layout, though I'm right-handed and keep my deck and GY to the left. I dare you to ask me how tempting it is to hold flying creatures in a floating pattern over the table.
1.) Gideon Jura
Underplayed card that shuts down aggro like a beast. He does exactly what you need him to do every single time, unlike Liliana of the Veil where in certain situations, you can't even use her.
2.) Venser, The Sojourner
Sadly overlooked card that does sooo much work. So many decks just have no answer for his lock. Even his -1 can be built around. Not to mention he's just one of the coolest walkers around.
3.) Liliana of the Veil
When she works she WORKS. For 3 mana, you basically get a win-con if left un-answered. The only downside is when you end up not being able to play her when there's too many creatures on the field or you have a hand you can't discard.
4.)Garruk, Primal Hunter
Coming down the turn after Day of Judgement is backbreaking for control. He goes uncountered, and sets up the pins again. He also has the potential to fill up your hand again. He's like a reset button for Midrange green decks
5.) Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Neat synergy with a lot of control cards, and much like Garruk, she can serve as a reset button, but for control.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sig banner courtesy of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
1. Garruk Relentless (kills mana dorks/blade splicer, makes tokens thatblock geist, kills unflipped delvers and snapcaster mages)
2. Gideon Jura (very good against the creature heavy meta right now, mana leak is seeing minimal play, so it doesn't get countered hardly at all, especially from the SB)
3. Liliana of the Veil (kills a guy for value, including Geist, not the best against all the blade splicers/mana dorks)
4. Karn Liberated (super powerful, most decks just cant deal with it unless they randomly bring in O-Ring or kept in their 2 Mana Leaks)
5. Tamiyo, the Moon Sage (just good at locking stuff down, drawing cards in a pinch) Garruk, Primal Hunter is my "honorable mention" simply because how good he is, not seeing any play at all tho really.
based on how much play they're seeing currently/how good they are against the current meta.
Now assuming these cards are in the decks they are supposed to be in...
My top 5 planeswalkers in standard right now are:
Number 1: Liliana of the Veil!
REASON: To me she just seems like she is the best. She is a VERY good control card in my opinion, and this gives Mono-black-control a huge edge. Discarding a card and a creature sac is a pretty big win for the player controlling her.
Number 2: Gideon Jura!
REASON: Gideon is a very versatile card. Another very good control card but also has some offense to it as im sure everyone is aware of. Make an opponent tap out all his creatures essentially, destroy a tapped creature or make HIMSELF a creature and attack with it, making him harder to kill since he prevents any damage that turn.
Number 3: Tamiyo, the Moon Sage!
REASON: Well side from being my personal favorite planeswalker and possibly my most favorite card in standard right now... I think she is every control players number #1 fan. Taps a PERMANENT, until the opponents next next untap step, drawing a card for each tapped creature for an opponent, or the ultimate of ultimates, lets make every single card come back to the hand after use, i love recycling She can control, then push you forward with card draw, and hopefully keep pushing you forward after that.
Number 4: Ajani, Caller of the Pride!
REASON: I know what some of you are thinking, why the hell is he number 4?!?!? Well im one person so feel free to argue, but he comes into play for 1ww for 4 already! then your probably going to make him a 5 on turn 3 by adding a counter UP TO one creature, meaning you can do it with no creatures, SAWEET! Now the minus 3 ability i don't think will see a lot of play, but flying and double strike is awesome! the minus ultimate ability is ridiculous as we all know, but ajani had to follow SOMETHING involving your life total, this time we make flying cats..... kinda just a little random but ajani is a cat i guess
this is a tough call but i think mr 5 goes too...
Number 5: Elspeth Tirel!
REASON: Ya i know, if you don't have any creatures that her first ability does nothing... but i mean.. lets face it... now that rhox faithmender is in standard i think she might see a little bit more play before the rotation. Minus ability, its always nice to get some chump blockers and hopefully keep them around long enough to gain life off of them. and if her get to her ultimate (which is pretty easy being -5 and all), destroy everything except lands and tokens, thats just freaking dandy lol
Well guys, lets here some rebuttals, what does everyone else think?
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Tamiyo is my favorite from playing with you often. I've gotten her Ult off and it's GG. I'll miss Gideon very very much... they were best friends.
Instead of Ajani, I'd vote Karn.
After that, probably Tamiyo, then maybe the new Ajani. Garruk Relentless deserves honorable mention for being psuedo-removal in green, and for his fantastic ability to protect himself.
ya i agree, the three drop spot is pretty packed, he will indeed be better in the future.
Karn is really good right now in any ramp deck, like i said below i never noticed how soon the ultimate could go off...
i was considering karn as the number 5, but why do you think he deserves to be number #1 or #2? i mean 7 mana for a 6 planeswalker is a good deal in general, i didnt notice that on turn 3 you could crack his ultimate assuming you +4 2 turns and protected him... that might change things for me. i am playing elf ramp right now in standard and this could be good...
i have actually never played her, so i wouldn't know. My buddies LOVE her though, and i see how she works A LOT. So i figured i better give credit where its due lol
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Karn is expensive to cast, but he's also colorless, and in control or ramp decks, he's one of the best finishers available because he is so very difficult to answer and just takes over the game. He's also crazy in Modern (which doesn't necessarily count for the purposes of this thread, but it's helpful to evaluate a card's overall power level). It's very, very difficult to come back against a Karn that comes down before turn 5 (and sometimes as early as turn 3).
The other planeswalkers on the list are also very powerful, but relatively easier to come back against, so that's why I chose Karn.
It is a difficult call, though. Liliana is also powerful, but her power comes from how early she can hit the battlefield and eek out an advantage over time. It's tough to compare her power level to Karn's because they are powerful for such different reasons. It's like comparing the power level of Snapcaster to the power level of Griselbrand - both are insanely good, but very, very different.
ya you have good points, being colorless is pretty awesome in ramp decks. i never fully understood how he worked until recently, so i might change it up just a little. as i said maybe i can grab a couple to put in the elf deck. ramping into him could be a lot of fun as you said.
i salute you good sir
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Tomiyo, the moon sage
Ajani, caller of the pride
After this is gets really muddled...some are situationally good (koth, Venser, Elspeth, Gideon) but none really stand out as a powerhouse in most decks that could play them.
BEtched Champion/InfectB
WSoilders/knightsW
WUVenser SplicerWU
RRDWR
GFeed the Pack comboG
WUPool of ExhaustionWU
EDH
GEzuri, Elf OverrunG
BGeth, GraverobberB
UThada Adel, ThiefU
RUrabrask, Big RedR
WElesh Norn, CrusadeW
WUGAngus Makenzie, Bant ControlWUG
Extended
WGElvesWG
Legacy
RGoblinsR
UBGFariesUBG
UBGRaffinityUBG
Liliana of the Veil (takes total control of the early game)
Gideon Jura (amazing with sweepers and stall decks)
Karn Liberated (no explanation needed)
Garruk, Primal Hunter (that -3 is criminally underrated)
Elspeth Tirel (timely reinforcements that keeps on giving)
It depends on what deck each is in though, as they all have their particular strengths.
Liliana of the Veil
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Ajani, Caller of the Pride
Garruk, Primal Hunter
Karn Liberated
It's amazing to me how many different planeswalkers are in the same standard environment right now. I remember when they were released in Lorwyn, we thought there'd never be more than 5 at once, lol... we were wrong.
Liliana of the Veil
Karn Liberated
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
5. Garruk Relentless
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Shuts down yo ****, ****s up your couch with some draw, then can recycle your counter spells and what ever else you want just because she ****ing can.
Liliana of the Veil
Lose your stuff, they flash theirs back, then you lose more possibly more important stuff, and then you lose (half of) all your ****. What the ****, man?
Karn Liberated
Why? Because Karn says: "**** you, I'm the best control finisher out there because I can finish even when it looks like you're possibly losing." Destroy your opponent's field while setting you up for a kill? Nice.
Ajani, Caller of the Pride
Just because everyone else thinks so, and because he's cool in white weenie. I personally think his and Garruk, Primal Hunter's token abilities are the most brutal/abusable in the right kinds of decks.
Garruk Relentless
So much utility. Seriously. First you get 2/2 tokens, alright. They're okay... Then there's the fight ability, which not only can kill a Snapcaster, Huntmaster, Splicer, or whatever the **** else you need dead, but then he unlocks a whole brand-****in'-new tool set! This swiss army knife features a SECOND kind of token that is arguably better than the previous due to the death touch clause and reference to the devil/death, then it also has a tutor so you can swap out your 2/2 with a 6/6, a better 2/2, or whatever else the hell you want! Geez, man take your pick! Then he can end games with his blackified overrun. You hear that? Game. ****ing. Over.
Underplayed card that shuts down aggro like a beast. He does exactly what you need him to do every single time, unlike Liliana of the Veil where in certain situations, you can't even use her.
2.) Venser, The Sojourner
Sadly overlooked card that does sooo much work. So many decks just have no answer for his lock. Even his -1 can be built around. Not to mention he's just one of the coolest walkers around.
3.) Liliana of the Veil
When she works she WORKS. For 3 mana, you basically get a win-con if left un-answered. The only downside is when you end up not being able to play her when there's too many creatures on the field or you have a hand you can't discard.
4.)Garruk, Primal Hunter
Coming down the turn after Day of Judgement is backbreaking for control. He goes uncountered, and sets up the pins again. He also has the potential to fill up your hand again. He's like a reset button for Midrange green decks
5.) Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Neat synergy with a lot of control cards, and much like Garruk, she can serve as a reset button, but for control.
Sig banner courtesy of Miraculous Recovery Signatures
2. Gideon Jura (very good against the creature heavy meta right now, mana leak is seeing minimal play, so it doesn't get countered hardly at all, especially from the SB)
3. Liliana of the Veil (kills a guy for value, including Geist, not the best against all the blade splicers/mana dorks)
4. Karn Liberated (super powerful, most decks just cant deal with it unless they randomly bring in O-Ring or kept in their 2 Mana Leaks)
5. Tamiyo, the Moon Sage (just good at locking stuff down, drawing cards in a pinch) Garruk, Primal Hunter is my "honorable mention" simply because how good he is, not seeing any play at all tho really.
based on how much play they're seeing currently/how good they are against the current meta.
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control
2.tezzeret agent of bolas
3.nicol bolas
4.ajani vengeant
5.ashiok nightmare weaver
BEEEES!
Rabble Red
Modern
Burn
Infect