I don't think I've ever played a deck with more than 60 cards in a tournament. I feel like the 61st card is just the one that's worse than the 60th card and therefore gets cut. The only time I could ever see 60+ being ok is if you're running a toolbox-style deck, like Survival of the Fittest, but even those decks have a combo kill in mind and drawing a random toolbox card is just a wasted draw.
Oh, I thought he was talking about playing a spell that is countering a spell with counters on it as it comes into play, but I see you guys were just discussing whether he was flashing a creature with flash in order to flash a flashback or just flashing a creature with flash but not needing flash in order to flashback a spell without flash.
I had this conversation with Adrian Sullivan a few weeks ago. He said the only time playing 61 was better than 60 was when you didn't have enough time to test and figure out what the right card to cut it. When it comes down to one card, cutting the wrong card is statistically worse than having an extra card in your deck.
It's incredibly rare, but there is sometimes a strategic advantage to having that extra card. I've never found that to be the case, but I'm certain that it exists.
Only if battle of wits. And 61 is fine if you can't figure out what you need to cut and your deck is filled with 1 and 2 of answers because you are toolboxy with a lot of card filtering.
I'm curious, MTGS, how adamant are you on staying at *exactly* 60 cards in your main deck?
Are you ever tempted to squeeze in a 61st or 62nd? Do you do it? Why or why not?
62, never.
I've included a 61st when I didn't know what to cut, or I wanted a 27th land but didn't want to cut a spell, as I was adding a land that functioned as a spell.
Always 60, never more. I have this (unverified) belief that the more cards you have in your deck, the more you're opening yourself up to mana flood/screw because there are more 3-6 card "pockets" of land or spells.
Except for Limited, oh ho ho ho!
(There was this question for judges that went: It's Day 2 of a PT, you deck-check and find a player with 59 cards in his deck. What penalty is appropriate? The answer is, whoever said it was Constructed?)
I don't think I've ever made a deck beyond the stated suggested max. EDH 100, Contructed 60, Limited 40, 5-color Highlander 250...
Just rarely have ever felt the need. Once you start adding, you start making the mana not work and you start screwing around with how reliable your deck plays.
I'm pretty casual, but I do still enjoy having my decks WORK.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
60+ on tournaments will mostly benefit the control decks. More room for mass removals and other counterspells.
Are you serious?
Everything past 60 makes your deck LESS consistent.
Or maybe you were that guy at the GP I beat that ran 75 card U/W control that never had any answers to anything
Everything past 60 makes your deck LESS consistent.
Or maybe you were that guy at the GP I beat that ran 75 card U/W control that never had any answers to anything
I only keep 2 DOJs on my current UW Control deck. If the allowed number is 61, I won't hesitate to add another......
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i like to run 61 just in the off chance of a stalemate type drawn out game. I know in my beginning days 70 or more was common, and my friends battle of wits 300 card monster was a sight you don't see often.
This is a pretty popular question, and my take on it is this:
If you need to ask whether a deck should be 60 cards, the answer is always yes. The only way 61 cards is even remotely acceptable is if you know exactly why the deck is supposed to be 61 cards.
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This is a pretty popular question, and my take on it is this:
If you need to ask whether a deck should be 60 cards, the answer is always yes. The only way 61 cards is even remotely acceptable is if you know exactly why the deck is supposed to be 61 cards.
pretty much this...everything over 60 decreases your chance of drawing the card you need at the right time. there are situations when you may NEED to go over 60 but you better be damn sure it's nessisary...battle of wits would be one time.
in limited I'm a little more flexible...sometimes your 24-26th cards are REALLY good and you might be justified in going over just a card or two
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Current Decks
Standard BEtched Champion/InfectB WSoilders/knightsW WUVenser SplicerWU RRDWR GFeed the Pack comboG WUPool of ExhaustionWU
EDH GEzuri, Elf OverrunG BGeth, GraverobberB UThada Adel, ThiefU RUrabrask, Big RedR WElesh Norn, CrusadeW WUGAngus Makenzie, Bant ControlWUG
Yeah, 26.5 lands (the net effect of 27/61) is fine in some control decks. There is a reason to do this when you just can't justify changing the numbers on, say, mana leak. Any aggro deck that runs 61 cards is just silly, and 61 in any 60 card format but standard (and maybe modern, since I have no experience with it so I can't say) is just daft.
In Limited, I've run over 40 once, when Mill deck were very popular at my LGS during Zendikar. I ran 43 cards a few times to screw with their math, and it worked. KIM this was very metagame specific and I would not have done it at any other store, nevermind at a higher level event.
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"A little nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men."
- Willy Wonka
The Quote function doesn't work for me on this forum. Sorry for any confusion created.
In Limited, I've run over 40 once, when Mill deck were very popular at my LGS during Zendikar. I ran 43 cards a few times to screw with their math, and it worked. KIM this was very metagame specific and I would not have done it at any other store, nevermind at a higher level event.
I almost always board in extra cards when facing a limited Mill deck, but I still wouldn't run more than 40 maindeck. Odds are there are going to be fewer mill than non-mill decks, and you can still beat a mill deck without extra cards
Are you ever tempted to squeeze in a 61st or 62nd? Do you do it? Why or why not?
-regarding Snapcaster Mage.
I like the logic behind this.
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62, never.
I've included a 61st when I didn't know what to cut, or I wanted a 27th land but didn't want to cut a spell, as I was adding a land that functioned as a spell.
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Except for Limited, oh ho ho ho!
(There was this question for judges that went: It's Day 2 of a PT, you deck-check and find a player with 59 cards in his deck. What penalty is appropriate? The answer is, whoever said it was Constructed?)
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Big Johnny.
Just rarely have ever felt the need. Once you start adding, you start making the mana not work and you start screwing around with how reliable your deck plays.
I'm pretty casual, but I do still enjoy having my decks WORK.
Emille, Seven-Sting Dancer Shalin Nariya
This, I've run the extra land (or filled out my 4 of of mana leaks, depending on how you look at it) before. Other than that, nope, never.
Nope, I never done that before. I don't have a clue about the stats behind it, but i just like i'm gimping myself somehow.
Casual
RGBeatz | BPauper MBC | 0Cheeri0s | BVampires
Competitive
RBurn | GWMaverick | WURPatriot | BWGJunkBlade | BPOX
EDH is actually both minimum and maximum 99 plus general. You can't run more even if you want to, house rules aside.
Are you serious?
Everything past 60 makes your deck LESS consistent.
Or maybe you were that guy at the GP I beat that ran 75 card U/W control that never had any answers to anything
I only keep 2 DOJs on my current UW Control deck. If the allowed number is 61, I won't hesitate to add another......
Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades
If you need to ask whether a deck should be 60 cards, the answer is always yes. The only way 61 cards is even remotely acceptable is if you know exactly why the deck is supposed to be 61 cards.
pretty much this...everything over 60 decreases your chance of drawing the card you need at the right time. there are situations when you may NEED to go over 60 but you better be damn sure it's nessisary...battle of wits would be one time.
in limited I'm a little more flexible...sometimes your 24-26th cards are REALLY good and you might be justified in going over just a card or two
BEtched Champion/InfectB
WSoilders/knightsW
WUVenser SplicerWU
RRDWR
GFeed the Pack comboG
WUPool of ExhaustionWU
EDH
GEzuri, Elf OverrunG
BGeth, GraverobberB
UThada Adel, ThiefU
RUrabrask, Big RedR
WElesh Norn, CrusadeW
WUGAngus Makenzie, Bant ControlWUG
Extended
WGElvesWG
Legacy
RGoblinsR
UBGFariesUBG
UBGRaffinityUBG
In Limited, I've run over 40 once, when Mill deck were very popular at my LGS during Zendikar. I ran 43 cards a few times to screw with their math, and it worked. KIM this was very metagame specific and I would not have done it at any other store, nevermind at a higher level event.
- Willy Wonka
The Quote function doesn't work for me on this forum. Sorry for any confusion created.
I almost always board in extra cards when facing a limited Mill deck, but I still wouldn't run more than 40 maindeck. Odds are there are going to be fewer mill than non-mill decks, and you can still beat a mill deck without extra cards
Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades