If this thread was about the all time black creature I would be one of the fastest members to reply. Dark Confidant is hands down the best in that area.
Goyf is the best in all areas.
There just hasn't been a creature prior or present that has the casting {this means you can protect the investment} to deliver consistant wins. There probably won't ever be one too.........seeing as time goes by and wizards makes more {types} he only GETS BETTER with age. Backed by a shorter print run {you can compare the runs} and the clear fact he'll probably NEver to be reprinted .....we'll see who's the man once this angle falls out of standard and can be had for fraction of her price tag, and goyfs will still be were they're at or even higher.
S.M.
Actually, he just might. He's in a set called Future Sight and his card layout, among others, looks different from the rest...like your looking into the future. Don't quote me, I'm just saying that you shouldn't jump to a conclusion like that.
That said, I'm going to disagree with both you and Seth. I know the goyf is an amazing creature, but he's never scared me in Standard...the only format I play competitively. Of course, he's almost always either a 1/2 or a 2/3 when he first comes into play 2nd turn. One memorable moment in particular was when one of the better players dropped one 2nd turn on me. He was excited, you could tell. I killed it with a Disfigure.
Actually, he just might. He's in a set called Future Sight and his card layout, among others, looks different from the rest...like your looking into the future. Don't quote me, I'm just saying that you shouldn't jump to a conclusion like that.
That said, I'm going to disagree with both you and Seth. I know the goyf is an amazing creature, but he's never scared me in Standard...the only format I play competitively. Of course, he's almost always either a 1/2 or a 2/3 when he first comes into play 2nd turn. One memorable moment in particular was when one of the better players dropped one 2nd turn on me. He was excited, you could tell. I killed it with a Disfigure.
I don't think Wizards will ever willingly reprint a format-warping card even if it is from Future Sight.
Tarmogoyf grows a lot faster in a format with fetchlands and Force of Wills; I understand that Goyf might not be big when he was legal in Standard but play some Legacy and you'll see his power. Dropping a 4/5 Goyf second turn against Goblins even though the Goblins player dropped a Goblin Lackey absolutely devastated Goblins.
You've to be kidding me!
I believe the day they reprint the goyf, I'll........run up and down the street with a Big sign duct taped to my back with the words "The world is coming to a end" just to see how long I can do it before someone throws change at me.
You can disagree with me {and I would clearly him} all day and night if you would like {that's your free right as a person}, but my facts are solid.....that's all that matters when I make my comments....now if you could at least present a case, well that would be great because you gave me nothing other then a card frame one:rolleyes:, and wizards already knows that GOYF was a mistake.
S.M.
Actually, he just might. He's in a set called Future Sight and his card layout, among others, looks different from the rest...like your looking into the future. Don't quote me, I'm just saying that you shouldn't jump to a conclusion like that.
That said, I'm going to disagree with both you and Seth. I know the goyf is an amazing creature, but he's never scared me in Standard...the only format I play competitively. Of course, he's almost always either a 1/2 or a 2/3 when he first comes into play 2nd turn. One memorable moment in particular was when one of the better players dropped one 2nd turn on me. He was excited, you could tell. I killed it with a Disfigure.
I am confused, how is it reliable that Tarmogoyf comes out as a 4/5 on the 2nd turn? I am still new to magic and in most of the games Ive played, one or two cards are in the graveyard by my 2nd turn at most
You've to be kidding me!
I believe the day the reprint the goyf, I'll........run up and down the street with a Big sign duct taped to my back with the words "The world is coming to a end" just to see how long I can do it before someone throws change at me.
You can disagree with me {and I would clearly him} all day and night if you would like {that's your free right as a person}, but my facts are solid.....that's all that matters when I make my comments....now if you could at least present a case, well that would be great because you gave me nothing other then a card frame one:rolleyes:, and wizards already knows that GOYF was a mistake.
S.M.
Woo. Adjective noun is adjective. In this case, replace adjective with "biased" or "narrowminded," and noun with "opinion."
Your opinion is exactly that - an opinion. Wizards can do whatever the heck they want. Even if you quoted MaRo or Aaron Forsythe or whoever saying "We're not going to reprint Tarmo," it's not any kind of binding contract.
You say he has to give evidence saying they will reprint Tarmogoyf. Nonsense. There's a possibility for anything to get rereleased. What if they put Tarmogoyfs in WWK packs? Oh snap?
Grammer......dot, grammer dot my opinion dot grammer dot com.
My opinion is shared by many {realist}, and yours most likely by the ones that have this far fetched idea of getting that reprint to OWN. goyf isn't going to be reprinted [Bane will most likey just to note}........SNAP, and if they did it would be in a form of something special and not in standard.....which would be my whole point...SNAP, but don't worry I have that sign ready if I'm wrong.
And I love my sig....everyone needs laughter in their lives, and I might just have another spot in it for more!
S.M.
In case you aren't getting it (I think you are though), we both have opinions. I think there is no good argument to say that Tarmogoyf will or will not be reprinted.
Again, to reiterate, Tarmogoyf may or may not be reprinted.
Also, pretty sure correct spelling dot correct spelling dot correct use of punctuation dot would be be a more accurate way to characterize my post.
No need to since you brought that childish crap on {I think you got that}. So you could view it like this, you didn't bring a case as well, instead threw out some kinda grammer attack like it would pull the topic off goyf, and goodbye.
Baneslayer Angel FTW not today angel! 35 18.42% Tarmagoyf, for sure.155 81.58%
In case you aren't getting it (I think you are though), we both have opinions. I think there is no good argument to say that Tarmogoyf will or will not be reprinted.
Again, to reiterate, Tarmogoyf may or may not be reprinted.
Also, pretty sure correct spelling dot correct spelling dot correct use of punctuation dot would be be a more accurate way to characterize my post.
yeah, you know baneslayer i'm really happy for you and all...
BUT TARMOGOYF IS ONE OF THE BEST CREATURES OF ALL TIME!
... in all seriousness though the fact that Tarmogoyf is beating your face at least 3 turns earlier than baneslayer is scary. Plus at least goyf is going to be a 3/4, because you are playing in a format where you will have an instant, sorcery, and fetchland in your graveyard when he is ready to attack. Baneslayer may be splashable for a greedy 5cc manabase but goyf likes to be splashed for in almost anything.
As a side note, another thing that goyf is great at doing is fighting against itself, an instance where two baneslayers would die to each other, goyfs do not.
No need to since you brought that childish crap on {I think you got that}. So you could view it like this, you didn't bring a case as well, instead threw out some kinda grammer attack like it would pull the topic off goyf, and goodbye.
Baneslayer Angel FTW not today angel! 35 18.42% Tarmagoyf, for sure.155 81.58%
Absence of knowledge defers to uncertainty. That is to say because I don't know for certain, and you don't know for certain, we cannot say that it will or will not be reprinted.
Or we can say that maybe it will be reprinted. And we can say maybe it won't be reprinted. The point I'm trying to hammer in here is that NEITHER of us knows.
Get off your high horse (childish crap). Humility in the face of ignorance is the most correct option. I am willing to admit that you could be right. You aren't even willing to accept any other possibility, dismissing it without even thinking about it.
I would say with my EVD I provided if you read that part {probably didn't} would show that I did put some thought into, so ignorance in this case is soley on the eye of the beholder. No worries fellow member I won't reply to you on this topic again. If I did it would be a waste of time because this topic has shifted into a whole other thread, and a pointless one at that.
I would say with my EVD I provided if you read that part {probably didn't} would show that I did put some thought into, so ignorance in this case is soley on the eye of the beholder.
You're right, I didn't. I actually couldn't find it - EVD = Evidence, right? (that's not a joke, I actually do want to hear your argument) You said your facts are solid. Show me. Quote yourself so I can find it more easily.
Tarmogoyf is still king over Baneslayer though. I believe you are correct on that.
Neither. They're both overrated cards that die too easily to removal.
Goyf may only cost 2 mana, but that's also how much it costs to destroy it (or less).
Baneslayer still wins with evasion, but again....too easily dealt with.
Goyf still gets there on that two mana. The fact that you have to spend removal on it says a lot for its potency. And plus, if you used some removal maybe you just boosted the other goyfs you will inevitably see.
Baneslayer costs 5, and the same 2 mana removal will destroy it (in general).
Goyf still gets there on that two mana. The fact that you have to spend removal on it says a lot for its potency. And plus, if you used some removal maybe you just boosted the other goyfs you will inevitably see.
Baneslayer costs 5, and the same 2 mana removal will destroy it (in general).
In decks that I've played/play, I removed whatever was there...it's not because it was Goyf, it's because it was in my way. (see signature, I laughed at Goyfs)
Like I said, they're both overated...not 'bad' cards, just overated. People practically worship(ed) Goyf, and playing creature control, I just shook my head. I was more afraid of Paladin en-vec than Goyf =\
Then you haven't played against the right decks. Goyf is "worshipped" for a reason- he is the best creature ever made, period. 50% of the decks in Legacy run Goyf- and ALL the top decks run him except ANT. Goyf is the most played creature in Vintage now, too. Yes, the format with Black Lotus, Time Walk and Ancestral Recall plays a lot of Goyf.
Then you haven't played against the right decks. Goyf is "worshipped" for a reason- he is the best creature ever made, period. 50% of the decks in Legacy run Goyf- and ALL the top decks run him except ANT. Goyf is the most played creature in Vintage now, too. Yes, the format with Black Lotus, Time Walk and Ancestral Recall plays a lot of Goyf.
The right decks? What does that even mean? Even if Goyf is pumped to 98/99, I can still kill it easy or chump block it. He's the most overrated creature ever made, and I stand by my point. Just because he's a potential 5/6 - 7/8 whatever, for 2 mana, doesn't change the fact that he has no evasion what so ever.
If everyone is doing meth does that mean it's the best drug ever and everyone should do it? Same mentality that people exude here.
The right decks? What does that even mean? Even if Goyf is pumped to 98/99, I can still kill it easy or chump block it. He's the most overrated creature ever made, and I stand by my point. Just because he's a potential 5/6 - 7/8 whatever, for 2 mana, doesn't change the fact that he has no evasion what so ever.
Evasion doesn't matter on a 2 mana 4/5 or 5/6 that beats face. Them's the facts based on tournament results. Your kitchen table meta-game is irrelevant here.
Don't say things like "Goyf is the best creature ever made, period." He's a vanilla beater. He's very efficient, but still just a beater. IMO Dark Confidant and Goblin Welder are both easily better.
EDIT: This isn't to say that Baneslayer is better, she clearly isn't.
Guys, cool it. Have a civilized debate about the better of the two creatures. Opinions are exactly what they are, so if you're going to respond, make sure you do it properly.
(Obligatory verbal warning--infractions to follow if it continues.)
I voted for baneslayer, because it is played in T2, if Goyf was T2, I would have voted for it, but I do not believe anyone will be printing goyf again...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard RU Owling Mine (Runeflare Trap) RU
Recent FNM's
3-1 2nd
2-0 drop (Yeah, that is 2 wins and a drop...)
3-1 3rd
Actually, he just might. He's in a set called Future Sight and his card layout, among others, looks different from the rest...like your looking into the future. Don't quote me, I'm just saying that you shouldn't jump to a conclusion like that.
That said, I'm going to disagree with both you and Seth. I know the goyf is an amazing creature, but he's never scared me in Standard...the only format I play competitively. Of course, he's almost always either a 1/2 or a 2/3 when he first comes into play 2nd turn. One memorable moment in particular was when one of the better players dropped one 2nd turn on me. He was excited, you could tell. I killed it with a Disfigure.
Signature courtesy of Rivenor and Miraculous Recovery
EDH Altered Cards by Galspanic (Seriously, this guy's awesome.)
My Pauper Cube
Tapped-Out Simulator
My Trade Thread
-Decks-
Commander:
GWR Rith, the Awakener RWG
U Kami of the Crescent Moon U (Flagship Deck)
BW Teysa, Orzhov Scion WB
Under Construction:
UBR Crosis, the Purger RBU
Cube:
WUBRGX Pauper XGRBUW
I don't think Wizards will ever willingly reprint a format-warping card even if it is from Future Sight.
Tarmogoyf grows a lot faster in a format with fetchlands and Force of Wills; I understand that Goyf might not be big when he was legal in Standard but play some Legacy and you'll see his power. Dropping a 4/5 Goyf second turn against Goblins even though the Goblins player dropped a Goblin Lackey absolutely devastated Goblins.
I believe the day they reprint the goyf, I'll........run up and down the street with a Big sign duct taped to my back with the words "The world is coming to a end" just to see how long I can do it before someone throws change at me.
You can disagree with me {and I would clearly him} all day and night if you would like {that's your free right as a person}, but my facts are solid.....that's all that matters when I make my comments....now if you could at least present a case, well that would be great because you gave me nothing other then a card frame one:rolleyes:, and wizards already knows that GOYF was a mistake.
S.M.
Woo. Adjective noun is adjective. In this case, replace adjective with "biased" or "narrowminded," and noun with "opinion."
Your opinion is exactly that - an opinion. Wizards can do whatever the heck they want. Even if you quoted MaRo or Aaron Forsythe or whoever saying "We're not going to reprint Tarmo," it's not any kind of binding contract.
You say he has to give evidence saying they will reprint Tarmogoyf. Nonsense. There's a possibility for anything to get rereleased. What if they put Tarmogoyfs in WWK packs? Oh snap?
GJ on the quote in your sig.
My opinion is shared by many {realist}, and yours most likely by the ones that have this far fetched idea of getting that reprint to OWN. goyf isn't going to be reprinted [Bane will most likey just to note}........SNAP, and if they did it would be in a form of something special and not in standard.....which would be my whole point...SNAP, but don't worry I have that sign ready if I'm wrong.
And I love my sig....everyone needs laughter in their lives, and I might just have another spot in it for more!
S.M.
Thanks, bye.
In case you aren't getting it (I think you are though), we both have opinions. I think there is no good argument to say that Tarmogoyf will or will not be reprinted.
Again, to reiterate, Tarmogoyf may or may not be reprinted.
Also, pretty sure correct spelling dot correct spelling dot correct use of punctuation dot would be be a more accurate way to characterize my post.
Baneslayer Angel FTW not today angel! 35 18.42%
Tarmagoyf, for sure. 155 81.58%
BUT TARMOGOYF IS ONE OF THE BEST CREATURES OF ALL TIME!
... in all seriousness though the fact that Tarmogoyf is beating your face at least 3 turns earlier than baneslayer is scary. Plus at least goyf is going to be a 3/4, because you are playing in a format where you will have an instant, sorcery, and fetchland in your graveyard when he is ready to attack. Baneslayer may be splashable for a greedy 5cc manabase but goyf likes to be splashed for in almost anything.
As a side note, another thing that goyf is great at doing is fighting against itself, an instance where two baneslayers would die to each other, goyfs do not.
Thanks to Rivenor @ //forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=329663"/"> Miraculous Recovery for the Sig!
Absence of knowledge defers to uncertainty. That is to say because I don't know for certain, and you don't know for certain, we cannot say that it will or will not be reprinted.
Or we can say that maybe it will be reprinted. And we can say maybe it won't be reprinted. The point I'm trying to hammer in here is that NEITHER of us knows.
Get off your high horse (childish crap). Humility in the face of ignorance is the most correct option. I am willing to admit that you could be right. You aren't even willing to accept any other possibility, dismissing it without even thinking about it.
You're right, I didn't. I actually couldn't find it - EVD = Evidence, right? (that's not a joke, I actually do want to hear your argument) You said your facts are solid. Show me. Quote yourself so I can find it more easily.
Tarmogoyf is still king over Baneslayer though. I believe you are correct on that.
This is getting off-topic. We can take it to PMs.
Go Goyf!
Heroes of the Plane Studios
Goyf may only cost 2 mana, but that's also how much it costs to destroy it (or less).
Baneslayer still wins with evasion, but again....too easily dealt with.
Modern SkRed
Current Decks:
Pauper: UUDelver BlueUU
Goyf still gets there on that two mana. The fact that you have to spend removal on it says a lot for its potency. And plus, if you used some removal maybe you just boosted the other goyfs you will inevitably see.
Baneslayer costs 5, and the same 2 mana removal will destroy it (in general).
In decks that I've played/play, I removed whatever was there...it's not because it was Goyf, it's because it was in my way. (see signature, I laughed at Goyfs)
Like I said, they're both overated...not 'bad' cards, just overated. People practically worship(ed) Goyf, and playing creature control, I just shook my head. I was more afraid of Paladin en-vec than Goyf =\
Modern SkRed
Current Decks:
Pauper: UUDelver BlueUU
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
The right decks? What does that even mean? Even if Goyf is pumped to 98/99, I can still kill it easy or chump block it. He's the most overrated creature ever made, and I stand by my point. Just because he's a potential 5/6 - 7/8 whatever, for 2 mana, doesn't change the fact that he has no evasion what so ever.
If everyone is doing meth does that mean it's the best drug ever and everyone should do it? Same mentality that people exude here.
Modern SkRed
Current Decks:
Pauper: UUDelver BlueUU
Evasion doesn't matter on a 2 mana 4/5 or 5/6 that beats face. Them's the facts based on tournament results. Your kitchen table meta-game is irrelevant here.
Worst. analogy. ever. People use Goyf because he wins, not because they have some physiological addiction to him.
Goyf is heavily played in the same format as Black Lotus, Ancestral Recall and Time Walk. "Random Timmy Creature" isn't.
0 Karn
W Darien
U Arcanis
B Geth
R Norin
G Yeva
UW Hanna
RB Olivia
WB Obzedat
UR Melek
BG Glissa
WR Aurelia
GU Kraj
BRU Nicol Bolas
RGB Prossh
BGW Ghave
GUB Mimeoplasm
WUBRG Sliver Overlord
GWU Treva, the Renewer
EDH Spike:
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls
Trades
EDIT: This isn't to say that Baneslayer is better, she clearly isn't.
Trade Thread
Modern
RWGBurnGWR
GUInfectUG
GRTronRG
UWGifts TronWU
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RGWZooWGR
Legacy
BUWTinFinsWUB
UROmniTellRU
BURTESRUB
GElves!G
GBPSIBG
RGBelcherGR
UBRGWDredgeWGRBU
UBAffinityBU
RBurnR
Vintage
UBGDoomsdayGBU
0Martello Shops0
GElves!G
UBTPSBU
UBelcherU
0Dredge0
(Obligatory verbal warning--infractions to follow if it continues.)
[GTC] Gatecrash Patch for MWS (249/249)
Guys, come on, it\'s just opinions. Not a verbal slaughter fest.
All I did was express my opinion. In general, they are both awesome cards. It\'s just my thoughts.
RU Owling Mine (Runeflare Trap) RU
Recent FNM's
3-1 2nd
2-0 drop (Yeah, that is 2 wins and a drop...)
3-1 3rd