Obviously there will always be a place for proxies. Where is that place? I'm wondering what everyone thinks of proxies, and how much they are tolerated. I personally don't mind them that much, but it can be annoying if they don't have the card text on them, and they can be ugly. (I don't play in tournaments though.)
I think a few are fine in casual. As long as somebody already has the card or is just testing before they drop oodles on it, I see nothing wrong with it.
They're fine for testing when you don't want to drop half your wallet for deck you may not like, and I think they're okay if you have a really beat up or valuable card that you want to play but can't/won't play with the actual version.
In my opinion P9 cards are no longer about price as it is about demand. This being said even if we'll had the money to buy a set there wouldn't be enough for everyone.
I can handle 10 on the vintage scene, but anymore then that makes to feel like the format is being hindered by players that shouldn't be there in the first place {MY OPINION}.
I feel a person wanting to play vintage {this is my area of problem} should at least own the drains, bazaars, workshops, duals, Forces ect before stepping in....I remember when Vintage used to have some class and meaning.
To many dealers that hold tourneys allowing the likes of 25 proxies {dealers today that do this only care about lining their pockets with fat and have no pride for the actual game of vintage in my opinion...don't worry if I offended a dealer that shows this practice I'm prepared to back my opinion....because there's no excuses other then you want greenbacks, and this isn't just a random player speaking...but hey who am I...lol noone just a phantom;)} and beyound should be ashamed.
There's a reason they call it vintage, and seeing someone shuffle up with a complete pile of crap sometimes gets to me {even though I can also share I've never lost to a player with a proxy deck in a tourney do to the fact most are at a disadvantage with not really, truely seeing what they have in their hands} pissed.
If I had it my way there would be a law....nomore then 10 proxies period! And to be a total mule I would say ok....you want more, then each one will cost you $500.00 greenbacks....now that's lining your pocket and holding that sense of pride for the game!
With a 10 count proxy limit excuses are gone for most mages. Outside the ones that complain {that's all I hear guys/girls}....I just don't have the money for drains, duals, shops, forces ect....the're alot more mages that would share 10 is the perfect number to complete most of the competitive deck needs {I will be more frank, most competitive vintage players would share} for a T1 tourney.
Now I want to share with the member that created this thread my thanks;). I've been here along time I feel some days, {I love this site and the mods that make it a wonderful place to get our voices heard} and this is one of the best threads I've had the pleasure of posting on.
Thank you so much for letting me get this off my chest....to my surpise this has always been on my heart, but I just needed someone to create the door so to speak.... I just had my chance to turn the handle!
S.M.
I think they're okay for casual play (I make an exception for a Relentless Rats deck), and for testing a deck where you don't want to drop 200 bucks on a playset of Baneslayers that don't actually work very well in the deck, etc. Don't like them in tournaments.
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DCI Level 2 Judge
Modern: GRB Jund BRG RBU Grixis Delver UBR Legacy: W Death & Taxes W GRB Punishing Jund BRG GUR Canadian Threshold RUG Commander: RUG Maelstrom Wanderer GUR
I use proxy's for almost any double digit card from the newer sets. All of my fetchlands, cobra's, ob nixilus, planeswalkers, etc. are unplayed and will stay that way. I went looking through my old cards, and even though they were in plastics, i have shuffling cracks on the top of everything. So for me, I don't mind proxy's at all.
I did do the make a fake deck before dropping the cash on cards awhile back, i would j9ust always warn people when i was going to play it. Other than that you should always have the real ones on hand.
I only use proxies when playtesting a new deck. It's ok, when the guys in my playgroup use a couple for a while, when they can't get a hand on a certain card, but we all prefer the real thing. But it's always print-outs. Never just a slip of paper in the same sleeve as a basic land or such. It's a matter of aesthetics as well.
With tourneys it's good that proxies aren't allowed. First nobody earns anything from proxies, and without anybody buying cards there wouldn't be a game.
I just recently talked to a store owner who said he wouldn't buy any of the big vintage cards anymore since it's getting harder and harder to sell them. People just print out the cards, as there are more and more (unsanctioned) vintage tournaments in Germany allowing proxies. Consequently he doesn't run any vintage tournaments anymore. Thus for their eternal ratings to go up, players have to stick to legacy, which is an immensely popular format at his store.
On the other hand, if he runs fully powered tourneys, the value of cards slung at the tables is comparable to the price of a small car at least. Which isn't really comfortable for him, also, as this tempts people to maybe "find" a card without giving it back.
So there's two sides to the coin, as usual.
Still, if you don't have the cards, don't play the cards.
Just my two cents.
Ardeyn
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We often have a casual tournament with proxies allowed. It lets us have a chance to play with the power 9 for a bit. Time Walk + Izzet Guildmage = Awesome!
Otherwise I see more and more people use proxies for valuable cards they already have. I mostly use proxies when I have a new idea for a deck and I want to test it before buying/trading for the cards.
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It is always easy to be tolerant and understanding...Until someone presents an opinion completely opposite to your own.
None of the choices fit for me so I didn't vote. I have no problem with unlimited proxies for casual/testing. For tournaments, WoTC will never allow them in sanctioned tournaments, but I have no problem with using them in unsanctioned (usually 10-15).
I love proxies for playtesting. I also use them for expensive slots for strictly casual play when I intend to buy the card. I only do this with my close playgroup though... For casual play at a store and such, I try to use real cards only.
I'm also all about 10 proxie vintage. I don't really care for more than that though. This allows you to build some archtypes without dropping a ton of cash, but still forces you to use your own cards, and often to think with creativity.
I hate the concept, but I support 10 proxy vintage for those who actually enjoy the format. Outside of that no proxies in tournaments.
We had a store that used to do thier FNM with up to 4 proxies under the radar and if you won a prize you had to either buy the singles, or 1 pack per proxy. I don't know where they came up with this deal, but considering they ran 10 proxy vintage on Tuesday I'm not surprised the place was proxy friendly.
I use proxies extensivly for playtesting. My whole gauntlet (10+ decks) is printed proxies on basic lands. Those lands have probably seen close to 5k shuffles as I've been using them for the better part of 5 years.
On casual, my group normally frowns on proxies, but normally doesn't mind 1-2 if they are well made. Nobody would complain about you making a couple dual lands for your EDH, but if you proxied up a set of mana drains for casual, I'm sure someone would complain. Of course casual for us is usually some form of limited these days so it's a non issue.
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Out of the blackness and stench of the engulfing swamp emerged a shimmering figure. Only the splattered armor and ichor-stained sword hinted at the unfathomable evil the knight had just laid waste.
My main use for proxies are as place-holders. For example: let's say that I own 6 enlightened tutors but I am using a total of 20 in all of my decks. Whenever I go to play a deck with the enlightened tutors, I swap out the proxies for the real cards.
BTW, is there anyone that uses commons as proxies? I decided to switch from basic lands to commons because I am running out of lands for my decks. Since most commons seem to be made of dark colors, I use a white marker for them.
In my opinion, proxies are fine in certain casual games... as in, in some games everyone uses them and in others real cards only. If one deck has proxies and the other has real cards, that's a problem; in my opinion there should be proxy decks and real decks, and the two shouldn't mix.
I hate proxies and I would only like to see them if they actually proxy a card they have. Like I don't use my real FoW's on a deck unless it's for a tourney. I have seen people making a deck with 50% proxy is ridiculous and I don't enjoy a game with those people.
I really like the idea of proxies, because i do not have a very big collection, but if it did have a full play set of all the staples you can find, i would absolutely HATE other people using then
but all around I think they are a good thing!
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Standard RU Owling Mine (Runeflare Trap) RU
Recent FNM's
3-1 2nd
2-0 drop (Yeah, that is 2 wins and a drop...)
3-1 3rd
They're fine for testing when you don't want to drop half your wallet for deck you may not like, and I think they're okay if you have a really beat up or valuable card that you want to play but can't/won't play with the actual version.
Above is my view also.
But.
I :mad1:Hate:mad1: when someone uses them with no interest in obtaining a real one, after playing it for a few weeks and continuing to do so!
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Anyway, what do you all think?
Quotes in blog.
I can handle 10 on the vintage scene, but anymore then that makes to feel like the format is being hindered by players that shouldn't be there in the first place {MY OPINION}.
I feel a person wanting to play vintage {this is my area of problem} should at least own the drains, bazaars, workshops, duals, Forces ect before stepping in....I remember when Vintage used to have some class and meaning.
To many dealers that hold tourneys allowing the likes of 25 proxies {dealers today that do this only care about lining their pockets with fat and have no pride for the actual game of vintage in my opinion...don't worry if I offended a dealer that shows this practice I'm prepared to back my opinion....because there's no excuses other then you want greenbacks, and this isn't just a random player speaking...but hey who am I...lol noone just a phantom;)} and beyound should be ashamed.
There's a reason they call it vintage, and seeing someone shuffle up with a complete pile of crap sometimes gets to me {even though I can also share I've never lost to a player with a proxy deck in a tourney do to the fact most are at a disadvantage with not really, truely seeing what they have in their hands} pissed.
If I had it my way there would be a law....nomore then 10 proxies period! And to be a total mule I would say ok....you want more, then each one will cost you $500.00 greenbacks....now that's lining your pocket and holding that sense of pride for the game!
With a 10 count proxy limit excuses are gone for most mages. Outside the ones that complain {that's all I hear guys/girls}....I just don't have the money for drains, duals, shops, forces ect....the're alot more mages that would share 10 is the perfect number to complete most of the competitive deck needs {I will be more frank, most competitive vintage players would share} for a T1 tourney.
Now I want to share with the member that created this thread my thanks;). I've been here along time I feel some days, {I love this site and the mods that make it a wonderful place to get our voices heard} and this is one of the best threads I've had the pleasure of posting on.
Thank you so much for letting me get this off my chest....to my surpise this has always been on my heart, but I just needed someone to create the door so to speak.... I just had my chance to turn the handle!
S.M.
Modern:
GRB Jund BRG
RBU Grixis Delver UBR
Legacy:
W Death & Taxes W
GRB Punishing Jund BRG
GUR Canadian Threshold RUG
Commander:
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer GUR
I did do the make a fake deck before dropping the cash on cards awhile back, i would j9ust always warn people when i was going to play it. Other than that you should always have the real ones on hand.
The only net decking I do involves the Home Depot
Netdecking is Rightdecking
My latest data-driven Magic the Gathering strategy article
(TLDR: Analysis of the Valakut matchups. UB rising in the rankings. Aggro correspondingly taking a dive.)
In casual, you can always stop one guy who is just being a total tool about proxies, if he's just blowing out your group with vintage staples.
I proxied when I built my samurai deck. I didn't want to hunt down a bunch of random kamigawa for a goofy deck.
With tourneys it's good that proxies aren't allowed. First nobody earns anything from proxies, and without anybody buying cards there wouldn't be a game.
I just recently talked to a store owner who said he wouldn't buy any of the big vintage cards anymore since it's getting harder and harder to sell them. People just print out the cards, as there are more and more (unsanctioned) vintage tournaments in Germany allowing proxies. Consequently he doesn't run any vintage tournaments anymore. Thus for their eternal ratings to go up, players have to stick to legacy, which is an immensely popular format at his store.
On the other hand, if he runs fully powered tourneys, the value of cards slung at the tables is comparable to the price of a small car at least. Which isn't really comfortable for him, also, as this tempts people to maybe "find" a card without giving it back.
So there's two sides to the coin, as usual.
Still, if you don't have the cards, don't play the cards.
Just my two cents.
Ardeyn
Time Walk + Izzet Guildmage = Awesome!
Otherwise I see more and more people use proxies for valuable cards they already have. I mostly use proxies when I have a new idea for a deck and I want to test it before buying/trading for the cards.
Trade Thread
Modern
RWGBurnGWR
GUInfectUG
GRTronRG
UWGifts TronWU
URBGrixis DelverBRU
RGWZooWGR
Legacy
BUWTinFinsWUB
UROmniTellRU
BURTESRUB
GElves!G
GBPSIBG
RGBelcherGR
UBRGWDredgeWGRBU
UBAffinityBU
RBurnR
Vintage
UBGDoomsdayGBU
0Martello Shops0
GElves!G
UBTPSBU
UBelcherU
0Dredge0
I'm also all about 10 proxie vintage. I don't really care for more than that though. This allows you to build some archtypes without dropping a ton of cash, but still forces you to use your own cards, and often to think with creativity.
We had a store that used to do thier FNM with up to 4 proxies under the radar and if you won a prize you had to either buy the singles, or 1 pack per proxy. I don't know where they came up with this deal, but considering they ran 10 proxy vintage on Tuesday I'm not surprised the place was proxy friendly.
I use proxies extensivly for playtesting. My whole gauntlet (10+ decks) is printed proxies on basic lands. Those lands have probably seen close to 5k shuffles as I've been using them for the better part of 5 years.
On casual, my group normally frowns on proxies, but normally doesn't mind 1-2 if they are well made. Nobody would complain about you making a couple dual lands for your EDH, but if you proxied up a set of mana drains for casual, I'm sure someone would complain. Of course casual for us is usually some form of limited these days so it's a non issue.
BTW, is there anyone that uses commons as proxies? I decided to switch from basic lands to commons because I am running out of lands for my decks. Since most commons seem to be made of dark colors, I use a white marker for them.
1. Baneslayer Angel 2. Birds of Paradise 3. Lightning Bolt 4. Honor of the Pure 5. Goblin Chieftain
My top 5 Zendikar cards:
1. Eternity Vessel 2. Chandra Ablaze 3. Beastmaster Ascension 4. Ob Nixilis, the Fallen 5. Rampaging Baloths
but all around I think they are a good thing!
RU Owling Mine (Runeflare Trap) RU
Recent FNM's
3-1 2nd
2-0 drop (Yeah, that is 2 wins and a drop...)
3-1 3rd
Above is my view also.
But.
I :mad1:Hate:mad1: when someone uses them with no interest in obtaining a real one, after playing it for a few weeks and continuing to do so!
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░░░░▄▀░░░░░░░░░░▄▀░░██▄▀▄░░░░ Dafuq I just read?
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