I propose from those of us that will stop buying Harbro stuff if the court case goes to completion, start a thread to track this amount. By doing this, we will see what impact this will have on the future of MTG. Please only post the needed info and those that want to counter this thread, start your own.
#1. How many years have you been playing MTG?
#2. How much do you spend yearly (tell the truth) on MTG?
#3. How much do you spend on other Hasbro products (D & D, board games, etc.)?
I will post a running total from time to time.
My answers
#1. 10 years #2. 3500 #3. 700
Total so far 2/23/2006
21 people
#1 Avg/years of playing - just over 7 #2 Loss in Yearly MTG Dollars - $14125.00 #3 Loss in Yearly other Hasbro Products - $1414
Oh please. A boycott is not going to be enough to stop the Hasbro juggernaut. I remember I tried boycotting Disney after the Anaheim Angels beat the Yankees in 2002. It didn't go very well. Never boycott big companies.
1. 3 years
2. Probably a couple hundred. I've never kept track.
3. I only buy MTG books as my other Wizards products. $30
Please, not more crap about this. Give it up, already.
Now, I'm not saying R_E is guilty or anything like that, or WotC was right with a lawsuit mainly because I don't really know all the details. But, a lot of people really need to grow up. I understand the R_E is a well respected person in the Magic community, and I myself respect him for the work he does, but if anyone actually boycotts or quits the game over the case itself or the outcome, I will have lost the little glimmer of faith I had left in humanity.
Honestly, give me a break. You people are acting like children. Do you really want to stop playing a fun, and extremely enjoying activity just because of something like this? I know I certainly wouldn't. That would be like not shopping at a particular retail chain because you don't like their color scheme. It's just plain stupid.
Again, I support R_E, and he's probably a heck of a good guy, but all this is just ridiculous.
In any case:
1. 2-3 years
2. Never really keep track
3. See above
I support what you are doing and truthfully I am already so busy I have no time to play(until next year when I get into college) but I see this could actually help if we get enough people so u have my support.
-Ryan
Posted by Buzz:
Now, I'm not saying R_E is guilty or anything like that, or WotC was right with a lawsuit mainly because I don't really know all the details. But, a lot of people really need to grow up. I understand the R_E is a well respected person in the Magic community, and I myself respect him for the work he does, but if anyone actually boycotts or quits the game over the case itself or the outcome, I will have lost the little glimmer of faith I had left in humanity.
Honestly, give me a break. You people are acting like children. Do you really want to stop playing a fun, and extremely enjoying activity just because of something like this? I know I certainly wouldn't. That would be like not shopping at a particular retail chain because you don't like their color scheme. It's just plain stupid.
As far as the above paragraph I have a question for you. Do you support a company that is willing to run a middle age man out of his home and put him his wife and kids on the streets? That is the inhumane question here. Yes I enjoy Magic as well but the fact that I know that the money I spent was turned into a way to ruin a mans life is very Inhumane imo. As far as your comparrision to the color scheme that is rediculous they have nothing in common. I respect your opinion sir but you need to do the same for others just because you have a different opinion does not mean you can declare me inhumane for supporting a fellow human being from a company that he has little to no chance against if this goes to court. I would appreciate if you kept your opinion to yourself if all you are going to do is call us inhumane and childish.
1. I've been playing casual for 10 years. Started playing FNMs 2 years ago.
2. I don't really keep track, and I'm afraid to know...
3. The last Hasbro product I bought was a G.I. Joe action figure. That was a million years ago...
As far as the above paragraph I have a question for you. Do you support a company that is willing to run a middle age man out of his home and put him his wife and kids on the streets? That is the inhumane question here.
Technically, yes. I do support that company, because I continue to purchase and enjoy their product. But, then again, no. I don't support that company because of that very reason you listened above. Like I stated, I didn't know all of details of this whole thing. I just recently read R_E's update.
My point, basically, is that while Hasbro/WotC is at fault for filing the lawsuit, people boycotting and/or quitting probably won't have a noticable effect on their sales numbers. There are a number of posts on the Wizards' boards that say the same thing, and unfortunately I have to agree with them. Mainly, due to the number of people that play now and all the new players that start playing every day.
[quote=turning_of_the_tide] I respect your opinion sir but you need to do the same for others just because you have a different opinion does not mean you can declare me inhumane for supporting a fellow human being from a company that he has little to no chance against if this goes to court. I would appreciate if you kept your opinion to yourself if all you are going to do is call us inhumane and childish. [/quote]
I never said I didn't respect other people's opinions, nor I did I call anyone inhumane.
Oh please. A boycott is not going to be enough to stop the Hasbro juggernaut. I remember I tried boycotting Disney after the Anaheim Angels beat the Yankees in 2002. It didn't go very well. Never boycott big companies.
"Get up, a white person wants this seat." "Okay, sorry, Ill go to the back." And like that, Rosa Parks gets up, sits in the back of the bus, and segregation continues well into the 21st century.
Granted, this case is not of the same magnitude, but I for one will not be buying any Wizards products. Seriously, you people need to take Business 101, losing one customer is one too many, no matter how big a corporation you are.
1 7 years 2 $500 3 Nothing recently
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The above post gets my approval-:spock:
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That is patently hypocritical. You might as well claim corporations are bad for business and say you only shop at small stores, and then, turn around, and head into Walmart and stock up for a week.
You can't break tradition until someone starts to even try. Wizards might have the right side of the law, but is it the right side of the SPIRIT of the law? What is more damaging; Wizards' secrets being leaked and increasing excitement for a set, or putting a family into bankruptcy and out on the street?
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I'm sorry, but I don't believe you have the prerequisite of "not sucking" required to make that remark.
"Hello! I've come to serenade you. I can't play guitar. I can't play this accordion either, but I thought it'd be less obvious."
Dylan Moran, Black Books
That is patently hypocritical. You might as well claim corporations are bad for business and say you only shop at small stores, and then, turn around, and head into Walmart and stock up for a week.
You can't break tradition until someone starts to even try. Wizards might have the right side of the law, but is it the right side of the SPIRIT of the law? What is more damaging; Wizards' secrets being leaked and increasing excitement for a set, or putting a family into bankruptcy and out on the street?
Think of it this way: Let's say one of your friends made a decision you didn't exactly agree with. You don't support his actions, but wouldn't you still support him anyway because he is your friend? It's basically the same thing. I don't support Hasbro/WotC's lawsuit against R_E, but I support them financially because they make a game that I enjoy playing.
Yes, putting a family into bankruptcy is by far worse. But, since Wizard's has already outlined their spoiler policies here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/feature/42, I doubt any legal action would be taking unless something happened that overstepped those policies. That or action was taken against the better judgement of employees/advisers.
Pray tell then, if that has been their policy since 2002, why have they waited this long to take legal action? According to that, and the law, the spoilers as a whole are illegal, yet they waited for a picture of playtest cards that RE himself said he doubted was real to take action.
And, instead of sending a Cease and Desist, which Daron would've followed immediately, they skipped straight ahead to the lawsuit.
Wizards might be in the right, legally, but they are definitely wrong morally.
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I'm sorry, but I don't believe you have the prerequisite of "not sucking" required to make that remark.
Honestly, give me a break. You people are acting like children. Do you really want to stop playing a fun, and extremely enjoying activity just because of something like this?
Yes. This isn't the action of a child, this is the act of a moral and responsible adult. Responsible adults do not support things that harm their community.
I quit Magic for four years after they obtained a patent on CCGs. I'm more than ready to quit over R_Elf. There are plenty of 'fun and enjoying' activities out there -- I'll just choose another, one that doesn't make me feel like a hypocrite when purchasing the pieces.
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New Webcomic -- Genocide Man Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
#1. How many years have you been playing MTG? -8 years
#2. How much do you spend yearly (tell the truth) on MTG? - Aprox $800.00
#3. How much do you spend on other Hasbro products (D & D, board games, etc.)? -$1-200.00
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1.1994 so umm 12 years
2. started off as little as 100 but when i got to college i was buying 2-3 boxes of each set not counting drafts, ptqs and singles so around 600-700 annualy mabey even as high as 800
3. 1-2 dnd books a year so liek 60
Pray tell then, if that has been their policy since 2002, why have they waited this long to take legal action? According to that, and the law, the spoilers as a whole are illegal, yet they waited for a picture of playtest cards that RE himself said he doubted was real to take action.
And, instead of sending a Cease and Desist, which Daron would've followed immediately, they skipped straight ahead to the lawsuit.
Wizards might be in the right, legally, but they are definitely wrong morally.
I guess Wizards felt this particular case went to far. Also, it's their decision on how they want to address things like this. Here's something posted on the Wizard's boards by Pfisiar on morality:
Ok, let's talk morality. Rancored_Elf posted illegal information on mtgsalvation.com. As a result of this illegal information, his reputation grew, as his reputation grew, so did the hits on his website and mtgsalvation.com and as those grew, so did advertising posibilities. As advertising grew, so did profits. He profited monitarily from illegal information. All those arguing moral high ground can go chew on that for awhile.
And I'm sure Rancored_Elf is morally upright for not accepting any culpability whatsoever for the current problesm he's facing. He broke the law, and if he were truely the moral martyr people are saying he is, then he'd face that fact. He did something illegal and there are consequences for it. But no. RE has come out whining about his family, which have no merits on his own actions. (Just because a man has a family, it doesn't justify him participating in corperate espionage and theft.)
One of the fundemental rights the US constitution attempts to protect is the right to property. WotC is well within their moral and legal rights to control their property. Just as any man who shoots a burgler for stealing their stereo is viewed as morally correct, WotC should be viewed as morally correct in sueing someone who is stealing their property. The fact that they suffered little monitary loss is irrelevent. In fact, I say WotC would be morally remiss not to protect their product. WotC is morally obligated to protect the consumers who have legitimately bought their product, to ensure that product doesn't lose its integrity. And copyright theft could do that.
Quote from Remus Shepherd »
Yes. This isn't the action of a child, this is the act of a moral and responsible adult. Responsible adults do not support things that harm their community.
I quit Magic for four years after they obtained a patent on CCGs. I'm more than ready to quit over R_Elf. There are plenty of 'fun and enjoying' activities out there -- I'll just choose another, one that doesn't make me feel like a hypocrite when purchasing the pieces.
Responsible adults do not support things that harm their community? I guess that you "responsible adults" don't support this whole issue then.
Regardless of the outcome, Wizards may have to change their policies or other things within the company that could ultimately have a negative effect on the Magic community. And on top of that, since this has been blown up to immense proportions, people in the Magic community have split into those who support R_E/those that don't/etc. Don't you think that hurts the community?
As for your quitting and finding other fun and enjoyable activites, sorry to see you go.
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Windmills do not work that way!
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#1. How many years have you been playing MTG?
#2. How much do you spend yearly (tell the truth) on MTG?
#3. How much do you spend on other Hasbro products (D & D, board games, etc.)?
I will post a running total from time to time.
My answers
#1. 10 years
#2. 3500
#3. 700
Total so far 2/23/2006
21 people
#1 Avg/years of playing - just over 7
#2 Loss in Yearly MTG Dollars - $14125.00
#3 Loss in Yearly other Hasbro Products - $1414
Total Loss to Hasbro $15539.00
Superannuated canines are immune to indoctrination and innovative maneuvers.
1. 3 years
2. Probably a couple hundred. I've never kept track.
3. I only buy MTG books as my other Wizards products. $30
#2. 750
#3. 100
~Tyorl Nightwind, Mirewood Ranger
~Banner by Tawnos
2. $0
3. $0
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
2)~$700
3) $0 I don't buy anything else by Hasbro (at least not that I know of)
2. I have no idea how much I spend.
3. The last Hasbro product I bought was a Transformer. This was 20 years ago.
1. 9 years
2. uh...maybe $500
3. not much
My decks:
Standard - MUC, Glittering Wish Control, Battle of Wits
Extended - White Rock, UW Control, Train Wreck
Legacy - SI, UbaStax, CounterSlivers
Vintage - Manaless Ichorid, Flash, Gush-a-Tog
Highlander - Burn, MUC
I test on MWS!
Now, I'm not saying R_E is guilty or anything like that, or WotC was right with a lawsuit mainly because I don't really know all the details. But, a lot of people really need to grow up. I understand the R_E is a well respected person in the Magic community, and I myself respect him for the work he does, but if anyone actually boycotts or quits the game over the case itself or the outcome, I will have lost the little glimmer of faith I had left in humanity.
Honestly, give me a break. You people are acting like children. Do you really want to stop playing a fun, and extremely enjoying activity just because of something like this? I know I certainly wouldn't. That would be like not shopping at a particular retail chain because you don't like their color scheme. It's just plain stupid.
Again, I support R_E, and he's probably a heck of a good guy, but all this is just ridiculous.
In any case:
1. 2-3 years
2. Never really keep track
3. See above
Windmills do not work that way!
2.$1500
3.$200
I support what you are doing and truthfully I am already so busy I have no time to play(until next year when I get into college) but I see this could actually help if we get enough people so u have my support.
-Ryan
Posted by Buzz:
Now, I'm not saying R_E is guilty or anything like that, or WotC was right with a lawsuit mainly because I don't really know all the details. But, a lot of people really need to grow up. I understand the R_E is a well respected person in the Magic community, and I myself respect him for the work he does, but if anyone actually boycotts or quits the game over the case itself or the outcome, I will have lost the little glimmer of faith I had left in humanity.
Honestly, give me a break. You people are acting like children. Do you really want to stop playing a fun, and extremely enjoying activity just because of something like this? I know I certainly wouldn't. That would be like not shopping at a particular retail chain because you don't like their color scheme. It's just plain stupid.
As far as the above paragraph I have a question for you. Do you support a company that is willing to run a middle age man out of his home and put him his wife and kids on the streets? That is the inhumane question here. Yes I enjoy Magic as well but the fact that I know that the money I spent was turned into a way to ruin a mans life is very Inhumane imo. As far as your comparrision to the color scheme that is rediculous they have nothing in common. I respect your opinion sir but you need to do the same for others just because you have a different opinion does not mean you can declare me inhumane for supporting a fellow human being from a company that he has little to no chance against if this goes to court. I would appreciate if you kept your opinion to yourself if all you are going to do is call us inhumane and childish.
-Ryan(TotT)
2. I don't really keep track, and I'm afraid to know...
3. The last Hasbro product I bought was a G.I. Joe action figure. That was a million years ago...
2. 700-1000 depending on how much I can scam out of my parents.
3. 24 for books.
Technically, yes. I do support that company, because I continue to purchase and enjoy their product. But, then again, no. I don't support that company because of that very reason you listened above. Like I stated, I didn't know all of details of this whole thing. I just recently read R_E's update.
My point, basically, is that while Hasbro/WotC is at fault for filing the lawsuit, people boycotting and/or quitting probably won't have a noticable effect on their sales numbers. There are a number of posts on the Wizards' boards that say the same thing, and unfortunately I have to agree with them. Mainly, due to the number of people that play now and all the new players that start playing every day.
[quote=turning_of_the_tide] I respect your opinion sir but you need to do the same for others just because you have a different opinion does not mean you can declare me inhumane for supporting a fellow human being from a company that he has little to no chance against if this goes to court. I would appreciate if you kept your opinion to yourself if all you are going to do is call us inhumane and childish. [/quote]
I never said I didn't respect other people's opinions, nor I did I call anyone inhumane.
Windmills do not work that way!
"Get up, a white person wants this seat."
"Okay, sorry, Ill go to the back."
And like that, Rosa Parks gets up, sits in the back of the bus, and segregation continues well into the 21st century.
Granted, this case is not of the same magnitude, but I for one will not be buying any Wizards products. Seriously, you people need to take Business 101, losing one customer is one too many, no matter how big a corporation you are.
1 7 years
2 $500
3 Nothing recently
That is patently hypocritical. You might as well claim corporations are bad for business and say you only shop at small stores, and then, turn around, and head into Walmart and stock up for a week.
You can't break tradition until someone starts to even try. Wizards might have the right side of the law, but is it the right side of the SPIRIT of the law? What is more damaging; Wizards' secrets being leaked and increasing excitement for a set, or putting a family into bankruptcy and out on the street?
2. About AU$200
3. Nothing
spanglegluppet dot com
"Hello! I've come to serenade you. I can't play guitar. I can't play this accordion either, but I thought it'd be less obvious."
Dylan Moran, Black Books
2. about 900 dollars a year
3. 0
Think of it this way: Let's say one of your friends made a decision you didn't exactly agree with. You don't support his actions, but wouldn't you still support him anyway because he is your friend? It's basically the same thing. I don't support Hasbro/WotC's lawsuit against R_E, but I support them financially because they make a game that I enjoy playing.
Yes, putting a family into bankruptcy is by far worse. But, since Wizard's has already outlined their spoiler policies here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/feature/42, I doubt any legal action would be taking unless something happened that overstepped those policies. That or action was taken against the better judgement of employees/advisers.
Windmills do not work that way!
And, instead of sending a Cease and Desist, which Daron would've followed immediately, they skipped straight ahead to the lawsuit.
Wizards might be in the right, legally, but they are definitely wrong morally.
10 years (with a 4 year break).
#2. How much do you spend yearly (tell the truth) on MTG?
I estimate between $1500-$2000.
#3. How much do you spend on other Hasbro products (D & D, board games, etc.)?
None for the last few years -- I bought D&D 3ed some years ago, but haven't played it much.
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
Yes. This isn't the action of a child, this is the act of a moral and responsible adult. Responsible adults do not support things that harm their community.
I quit Magic for four years after they obtained a patent on CCGs. I'm more than ready to quit over R_Elf. There are plenty of 'fun and enjoying' activities out there -- I'll just choose another, one that doesn't make me feel like a hypocrite when purchasing the pieces.
Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass slaughter can be hilarious.
2. Depends. Probably $200 last year.
3. $0
#2. How much do you spend yearly (tell the truth) on MTG? - Aprox $800.00
#3. How much do you spend on other Hasbro products (D & D, board games, etc.)? -$1-200.00
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
#1. Average playing time -- just over 6 years
#2. Loss in MTG dollars -- $11650.00
#3. Loss in Hasbro (other products) dollars -- $1204.00
Total loss to Hasbro so far $12854.00
We have over 10% of the 90K
Superannuated canines are immune to indoctrination and innovative maneuvers.
2. started off as little as 100 but when i got to college i was buying 2-3 boxes of each set not counting drafts, ptqs and singles so around 600-700 annualy mabey even as high as 800
3. 1-2 dnd books a year so liek 60
I guess Wizards felt this particular case went to far. Also, it's their decision on how they want to address things like this. Here's something posted on the Wizard's boards by Pfisiar on morality:
Ok, let's talk morality. Rancored_Elf posted illegal information on mtgsalvation.com. As a result of this illegal information, his reputation grew, as his reputation grew, so did the hits on his website and mtgsalvation.com and as those grew, so did advertising posibilities. As advertising grew, so did profits. He profited monitarily from illegal information. All those arguing moral high ground can go chew on that for awhile.
And I'm sure Rancored_Elf is morally upright for not accepting any culpability whatsoever for the current problesm he's facing. He broke the law, and if he were truely the moral martyr people are saying he is, then he'd face that fact. He did something illegal and there are consequences for it. But no. RE has come out whining about his family, which have no merits on his own actions. (Just because a man has a family, it doesn't justify him participating in corperate espionage and theft.)
One of the fundemental rights the US constitution attempts to protect is the right to property. WotC is well within their moral and legal rights to control their property. Just as any man who shoots a burgler for stealing their stereo is viewed as morally correct, WotC should be viewed as morally correct in sueing someone who is stealing their property. The fact that they suffered little monitary loss is irrelevent. In fact, I say WotC would be morally remiss not to protect their product. WotC is morally obligated to protect the consumers who have legitimately bought their product, to ensure that product doesn't lose its integrity. And copyright theft could do that.
Responsible adults do not support things that harm their community? I guess that you "responsible adults" don't support this whole issue then.
Regardless of the outcome, Wizards may have to change their policies or other things within the company that could ultimately have a negative effect on the Magic community. And on top of that, since this has been blown up to immense proportions, people in the Magic community have split into those who support R_E/those that don't/etc. Don't you think that hurts the community?
As for your quitting and finding other fun and enjoyable activites, sorry to see you go.
Windmills do not work that way!