Hey so I was just looking at some creatures Glissa, The Traitor, Spiritmonger, and Mirri, The Cursed and it got me thinking about how crazy some creatures are. So what do you guys think the most overpowered creature is? Everyone gimme your top 2.
Tarmo is the biggest creature for the lowest cost without some form of drawback that makes it necessary to build a deck around it. There are bigger, cheaper creatures (phyrexian dreadnaught) or just plain bigger and more powerful (eldrazi) or has evasion or resitant to removal or whatever, but not have the unique combination of big size, low cost, almost no drawbacks that tarmo does.
Dark confidant draw. Sure, he may not be impressive in newer formats, but in the older formats (since we're talking about ALL of the creatures of magic here), his ability is priceless. Even at 0/1 he'd be playable. That he's a 2/1 for 2 is just gravy.
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Dark confidant draw. Sure, he may not be impressive in newer formats, but in the older formats (since we're talking about ALL of the creatures of magic here), his ability is priceless. Even at 0/1 he'd be playable. That he's a 2/1 for 2 is just gravy.
Interesting. That's two for Dark Confidant. I don't really see how this one is all that great, though. I would immagine that the life loss would cause some serious problems. Could you explain for me?
Interesting. That's two for Dark Confidant. I don't really see how this one is all that great, though. I would immagine that the life loss would cause some serious problems. Could you explain for me?
Most decks in Vintage/legacy that use him take an average of 1.5 damage a turn from him. They play almost all there stuff at VERY low CC. Keeping in mind this is a formal that banned or restricted all the 1 for 1's around this is a a very resonable deal. Throw in deck manipulation like Top/fech lands and brainstorms and you are basicly drawing 2 cards a turn at no drawback.
Honestly, Tarmogoyf isn't even that scary anymore IMO. Stoneforge is nastier than Tarmo now because of what she brings. Dark Confidant is dangerous because of the card advantage, but the two creatures that strike fear in my heart when I'm staring them down are:
I've won plenty of games where Dark Confidant, Tarmogoyf, Snapcaster Mage, Stoneforge Mystic, etc. were resolved by my opponent. I've never won a game where Emrakul or Blightsteel resolved for my opponent (not that they can't be dealt with, it's just difficult -- especially in the case of Emrakul).
I've won plenty of games where Dark Confidant, Tarmogoyf, Snapcaster Mage, Stoneforge Mystic, etc. were resolved by my opponent. I've never won a game where Emrakul or Blightsteel resolved for my opponent (not that they can't be dealt with, it's just difficult -- especially in the case of Emrakul).
that's a pretty awful metric for the quality of a card, since most of the truly broken cards in the game aren't immediate game-winners. (this extends to the really powerful creatures, too) I've won plenty of games in which my opponent has resolved Ancestral Recall, Time Walk, etc., but that doesn't detract in any way from the fact that they're some of the most powerful cards in the game. conversely, Emrakul and Blightsteel are good flashy finishers, but they aren't overpowered in any sense (unless Blightsteel is coming off a turn 1 Tinker, but that's a different story)
I'm throwing my vote out there for 'Goyf and Bob. They are two of the best cards in the game, not just creatures.
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Norin the Wary. He dodges removal and combat damage all day long.
He dodges everything but he also can't attack or block so he's pretty useless. Unless you are running a combo and you can do something whenever he enters he totaly useless
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Omnath
Curiously Hermit Druid, Goblin Recruiter and Worldgorger Dragon don't seem to dominate this list (although granted the first two have been mentioned). I mean, they are the ones banned in Legacy.
Could someone elaborate on how this is possible? Why are the three creatures (not counting the ante creatures) that are banned in Legacy not considered the most overpowered creatures in Magic? If they are not that bad, shouldn't WOTC just unban them then?
1) Legacy is not about the most overpowered cards in magic. That would be vintage, where no creatuer cards are banned or even restricted.
2) No one will argue that wild nactl is more powerful than tarmogoyf, and yet wild nactl is banned in mordern.Likewise, several cards restricted in vintage are just fine in legacy.
Banning cards is about maintaining a diverse meta.
3) When legacy was still called 1.5, world gorger utterly dominated legacy. As in, flash-hulk levels of domination.
After worldgorger got banned, FCG, hermit druid and oath of druids became the dominant forces of 1.5. All three are combo decks. When legacy was formally announced, guess what cards were banned next?
Wizards is very reluctant about unbanning combo pieces. It can be argued that those cards wouldn't be so powerful today (in the case of worldgorger, no bazaar and much more graveyard hate than during its time), but then, wizards STILL kicks combo in the teeth every once in a while. If you want to argue that those cards should come off the list, then go talk to wizards.
Personally, I'd like to get recruiter unbanned. but I recognize that recruiter is a combo piece and so its unlikely that it will come off the banned list any time soon.
Most overpowered creature, IMO, should be one that could fit into just about any deck and wreck havoc.
Putting Dark Confidant into a deck with a ton of big creatures would be suicide. Thus, he can't really be considered the most overpowered creature because he is niche. Same with Recruiter. He's only good in Goblin decks. Hermit is only good in reanimator decks.
These are all niche specific.
A truly overpowered card that can fit in just about any deck at all would be something like Wurmcoil Engine
The thing is almost impossible to deal with efficiently unless you exile it. Destroying it just brings you back more of the same, maybe worse since you now have 2 bodies instead of one.
Even Blightsteel is niche as you can't really expect to hardcast this guy, so you need something like Tinker or an Oath deck to make him viable.
But I can take Wurmcoil and put him in just about anything. Heck, I could even put him in as a finisher in a weenie deck if I want.
Think of all the decks in standard right now that use him. Last night, somebody sided him in against me playing Wolf Run.
That is my definition of an overpowered creature.
And I would put him ahead of Goyf only because Goyf is easier dealt with in spite of its low casting cost. But Goyf is definitely up there on the list. But again, he's a niche card. You have to play him in a certain kind of deck.
Imagine you put him in a green elves deck with no spells other than creatures.
Suddenly, he's not so great.
Play him in a Vintage deck where you can turn 1
Tropical Island, Mox Sapphire, Black Lotus. Sac the lotus for 3 blue. tap the trop and the mox for green/blue, play Goyf, use the 3 blue to play Ancestral Recall, draw 3, play Mox Jet, tap it, take the 1 of the two remaining blue and play a 2 drop creature (take your pick of black goodies) that you can sac for mana.
You now have in your graveyard:
Artifact
Instant
Creature
And a Goyf on the field.
Turn 2, you're swinging for 3 with a 3/4
You can't do that in an elves deck in say extended no matter how hard you try.
And if I tried to think of a better example, I could probably come up with a scenario where you had 4 card types (include a sac land) in the graveyard by turn 2.
Point is, even Goyf is niche. He doesn't fit in just any deck. At least not efficiently. He has to be built around.
So overpowered is very subjective.
I'd say Gideon Jura (he can become a creature) is ridiculously overpowered. He's virtually indestructible as a creature.
Bob and Goyf, at least IMO, are too niche specific to be considered the most overpowered creatures of all time.
I witnessed this the other day and IT WAS SCARY AS HELL! Goblin Piledriver!! I was playing merfolk and I already Dismembered and Force Of Willed the other 3
Yeah I lost he was no fun to stare down! In the right circumstances ANY creature can be scary Wirewood Symbiote is no fun either!
Just as Patron Wizard is just as scary in a wizard deck!
As someone else stated above, its highly dependent on context. During the ALA/ZEN standard rotation, BBE and Baneslayer were pretty powerful in that environment. The same can be said for Primeval Titan in the ZEN/SOM rotation.
In terms of effeciency/value for their mana cost? Tarmogoyf, Bob, Stoneforge, Snapcaster, and Delver (proving itself to be playable in non-standard) are probably my top 5. (Note: 4 out of 5 cost 2, and the fifth costs 1.)
RBurn
G Agro Elves
Dark confidant
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Tarmo is the biggest creature for the lowest cost without some form of drawback that makes it necessary to build a deck around it. There are bigger, cheaper creatures (phyrexian dreadnaught) or just plain bigger and more powerful (eldrazi) or has evasion or resitant to removal or whatever, but not have the unique combination of big size, low cost, almost no drawbacks that tarmo does.
Dark confidant draw. Sure, he may not be impressive in newer formats, but in the older formats (since we're talking about ALL of the creatures of magic here), his ability is priceless. Even at 0/1 he'd be playable. That he's a 2/1 for 2 is just gravy.
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wild nacatl
goblin welder
tarmogoyf
dark confidant
blightsteel colossus
snapcaster mage
Interesting. That's two for Dark Confidant. I don't really see how this one is all that great, though. I would immagine that the life loss would cause some serious problems. Could you explain for me?
RBurn
G Agro Elves
Most decks in Vintage/legacy that use him take an average of 1.5 damage a turn from him. They play almost all there stuff at VERY low CC. Keeping in mind this is a formal that banned or restricted all the 1 for 1's around this is a a very resonable deal. Throw in deck manipulation like Top/fech lands and brainstorms and you are basicly drawing 2 cards a turn at no drawback.
I've won plenty of games where Dark Confidant, Tarmogoyf, Snapcaster Mage, Stoneforge Mystic, etc. were resolved by my opponent. I've never won a game where Emrakul or Blightsteel resolved for my opponent (not that they can't be dealt with, it's just difficult -- especially in the case of Emrakul).
edit
that's a pretty awful metric for the quality of a card, since most of the truly broken cards in the game aren't immediate game-winners. (this extends to the really powerful creatures, too) I've won plenty of games in which my opponent has resolved Ancestral Recall, Time Walk, etc., but that doesn't detract in any way from the fact that they're some of the most powerful cards in the game. conversely, Emrakul and Blightsteel are good flashy finishers, but they aren't overpowered in any sense (unless Blightsteel is coming off a turn 1 Tinker, but that's a different story)
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Tarmogoyf
Stoneforge Mystic
Snapcaster Mage
Aww I remember Verdant Force, Avatar of Woe, Akroma were overpowered
EDH: Xenagos, God of Revels.
stoneforge mystic and tarmogoyf.
dark confidant, snapcaster mage, vendilion clique, delver of secrets are all cool in their own way
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He dodges everything but he also can't attack or block so he's pretty useless. Unless you are running a combo and you can do something whenever he enters he totaly useless
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1) Legacy is not about the most overpowered cards in magic. That would be vintage, where no creatuer cards are banned or even restricted.
2) No one will argue that wild nactl is more powerful than tarmogoyf, and yet wild nactl is banned in mordern.Likewise, several cards restricted in vintage are just fine in legacy.
Banning cards is about maintaining a diverse meta.
3) When legacy was still called 1.5, world gorger utterly dominated legacy. As in, flash-hulk levels of domination.
After worldgorger got banned, FCG, hermit druid and oath of druids became the dominant forces of 1.5. All three are combo decks. When legacy was formally announced, guess what cards were banned next?
Wizards is very reluctant about unbanning combo pieces. It can be argued that those cards wouldn't be so powerful today (in the case of worldgorger, no bazaar and much more graveyard hate than during its time), but then, wizards STILL kicks combo in the teeth every once in a while. If you want to argue that those cards should come off the list, then go talk to wizards.
Personally, I'd like to get recruiter unbanned. but I recognize that recruiter is a combo piece and so its unlikely that it will come off the banned list any time soon.
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[/No]
Emrakul
Blightsteel
It's so hard to choose, though.
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Putting Dark Confidant into a deck with a ton of big creatures would be suicide. Thus, he can't really be considered the most overpowered creature because he is niche. Same with Recruiter. He's only good in Goblin decks. Hermit is only good in reanimator decks.
These are all niche specific.
A truly overpowered card that can fit in just about any deck at all would be something like Wurmcoil Engine
The thing is almost impossible to deal with efficiently unless you exile it. Destroying it just brings you back more of the same, maybe worse since you now have 2 bodies instead of one.
Even Blightsteel is niche as you can't really expect to hardcast this guy, so you need something like Tinker or an Oath deck to make him viable.
But I can take Wurmcoil and put him in just about anything. Heck, I could even put him in as a finisher in a weenie deck if I want.
Think of all the decks in standard right now that use him. Last night, somebody sided him in against me playing Wolf Run.
That is my definition of an overpowered creature.
And I would put him ahead of Goyf only because Goyf is easier dealt with in spite of its low casting cost. But Goyf is definitely up there on the list. But again, he's a niche card. You have to play him in a certain kind of deck.
Imagine you put him in a green elves deck with no spells other than creatures.
Suddenly, he's not so great.
Play him in a Vintage deck where you can turn 1
Tropical Island, Mox Sapphire, Black Lotus. Sac the lotus for 3 blue. tap the trop and the mox for green/blue, play Goyf, use the 3 blue to play Ancestral Recall, draw 3, play Mox Jet, tap it, take the 1 of the two remaining blue and play a 2 drop creature (take your pick of black goodies) that you can sac for mana.
You now have in your graveyard:
Artifact
Instant
Creature
And a Goyf on the field.
Turn 2, you're swinging for 3 with a 3/4
You can't do that in an elves deck in say extended no matter how hard you try.
And if I tried to think of a better example, I could probably come up with a scenario where you had 4 card types (include a sac land) in the graveyard by turn 2.
Point is, even Goyf is niche. He doesn't fit in just any deck. At least not efficiently. He has to be built around.
So overpowered is very subjective.
I'd say Gideon Jura (he can become a creature) is ridiculously overpowered. He's virtually indestructible as a creature.
Bob and Goyf, at least IMO, are too niche specific to be considered the most overpowered creatures of all time.
Naturally, it's just my opinion.
I mean if you look at legacy, you can take your pick, depending on the deck.
Blightsteel colossus is an insta-kill in sneak decks (that's overpowered)
Emrakul is practically an auto-win in 12 post.
Stoneforge was ridiculously over powered in Standard.
Tarmo/Confidant are very powerful in legacy, but so is Delver of Secrets is starting to see some serious hate due to it's power level for a common.
But every card's power is defined around the conditions set around it.
I don't think you can properly say what is the most powerful creature without giving proper context.
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BRG Loam Control (Assault - Loam) BRG
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Yeah I lost he was no fun to stare down! In the right circumstances ANY creature can be scary Wirewood Symbiote is no fun either!
Just as Patron Wizard is just as scary in a wizard deck!
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2: Dark Confidant
3: Snapcaster Mage
4: Stoneforge Mystic
5: ???
This reminds me, we still need a card to finish the "Invitational Cycle". I wonder if we'll ever see it.
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As someone else stated above, its highly dependent on context. During the ALA/ZEN standard rotation, BBE and Baneslayer were pretty powerful in that environment. The same can be said for Primeval Titan in the ZEN/SOM rotation.
In terms of effeciency/value for their mana cost? Tarmogoyf, Bob, Stoneforge, Snapcaster, and Delver (proving itself to be playable in non-standard) are probably my top 5. (Note: 4 out of 5 cost 2, and the fifth costs 1.)
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