Although being myself a brewer I really like to try and make almost all "bad" rare card to work, but some cards that exist seem to be a little too extreme, I know that some really bad card see play. Is having a card really really bad make other cards look better? Personally, I don't think so, that very bad card existing and never be played is nearly the same as not existing in the first place.
I'm not saying bad card and card that is very "techy" (hose specific shenanigans, like "Ashe of Abhorrent") should not exist.
Although for now in the current card available to us in Arena I only consider one card which I really question.
Axis of Immortality. I really, really have a hard time understanding how you can do anything with this, maybe there some combination or shenanigan I don't get, but this card is very slow at 6 mana, as no immediate impact on the board and take a least another full turn to even do something which is a weird effect.
Also, Font of Agonies, but it's not that bad because of all the shock lands in standard.
Now that non-Standard set can be created (like commander and such) is there a need to put such random pseudo very niche card in a standard set outside the lame excuse of the gambling in sealed format?
Your right Axis of Mortality is a bad card, it's slow and has an odd effect, but that effect has the potential to be Mythic... Tree of Perdition and Tree of Redemption are equally bad and play in a similar area, but neither of them are white. Why's that relevant, well Phyrexian Unlife and Solemnity are white, with these two cards in play your life total can be 0 and you won't lose the game, it also makes you immune to damage.
Mythics should be interesting build around cards, not staples of an environment, too many mythics are the later.
Axis of Mortality works if you can easily get your life down and switch it with an opponent to then kill them pretty much right away.
That even worked in Limited with Adanto Vanguard to rip down your life total on choice (right before you switch the life totals with the upkeep trigger on the stack is pretty much the best moment in time) , then you attack and you win.
White and especially mono white are pushed in a Weenie strategy and Aggro decks, so the card really doesnt do anything, especially as the opponent has plenty of options to destroy/exile and enchantment, they simply put too many enchantment removal on cards during Ixalan and in current standard (Planeswalkers in standard have the tendency to be able to remove enchantments, which is fairly destructive for this kind of card).
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Font of Agonies also works quite well with Adanto Vanguard as you can fairly easily pay 4 life to fuel it right away, and getting some life back with lifelink creatures also works.
And still its not really that great of a card, as it demands a lot from you do just get a single Murder out of it, and to truly abuse it multiple times, you also have to draw it before you pay life for other cards.
Its at least "remotely" playable, but it also doesnt really work well with the strategies that are dominant and there are simply better options that are easier to abuse , like Profane Procession which exiles and produces a much more self-fuelling removal source , but asks for a lot more mana ; in standard both suffer from the excess of enchantment removal and even if you get a single removal out of it, its not really worth the cost, especially not if your metagame is made out of fast aggro decks that demand mass removal and quick answers.
Unless they really make white a "life" dependant more aggressively in the next set, I still don't see the point of creating such niche and "weak" card. And saying that card was for "casual" or "kitchen table" fun and such, like I said previously, there no excuse to put it in a standard set anymore. When I open this kind of super narrow or even "bad" card in a pack, I want to leave Magic again. (I'm playing MtGArena)
Axis of Mortality is a combo card that is a feature card in W/B suicide commander decks (Like Selenia). Its a repeatable effect that lets you kill opponents by abusing effects like Lich, or that let you basically use Necropotence to draw 39 cards at another player's expense. It makes sense that it would seem weak to someone playing Arena, because Arena only supports Standard, and Standard is a very limited slice of the magic experience, even a historically good Standard like the one we're in.
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Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I know the card can be used outside Standard, like I said, now that we have product like commander and such, there no more excuse to create a card in Standard if it not going to be used in Standard, they want to make card for commander, then create a commander with it, no need to have it here in a pack, its create a unfun thing to open a Mythic and get this random lame "card", I just don't want to gamble again in Magic, I will not buy pack with money anymore because of this "gambling" mechanic
I know the card can be used outside Standard, like I said, now that we have product like commander and such, there no more excuse to create a card in Standard if it not going to be used in Standard, they want to make card for commander, then create a commander with it, no need to have it here in a pack, its create a unfun thing to open a Mythic and get this random lame "card", I just don't want to gamble again in Magic, I will not buy pack with money anymore because of this "gambling" mechanic
There is a reason. Not every card in a set is meant for X.
X can be: Constructed, Limited, Commander, Modern, or even Legacy/Vintage such as Lavinia, Azorius Renegade having sets provide cards for all types of players, ensures there is something for everyone to get excited about.
As far as not buying packs, well welcome to every 'eternal' players experience, many of us just buy singles.
Yeah I know not all card is meant for specifically Constructed, and Axis was just a recent example.
I still have trouble to see the point of having "very bad" card certainly even more in mythic rarity in packs outside of "greediness" and gamble mechanic, which is a lame excuse to have, but we need card for everyone. You can easily create more niche or special card in other product, like commander or such. Casual player and such don't buy packs anyway? so in a way it was only made for sealed and draft powerlevel which is basically the only place rarity really matters.
Cards with very special abilities are never truly BAD as they ask for special decks that can use the effects.
There are plenty of cards that are actually just BAD in a objective view, and even they have a reason to exist, even if these are overall much more annoying to have around.
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Mythic and rare cards that do something special are simply cards for people to find how to abuse them, and often enough can be used for good in a more casual approach of commander.
So they are really not BAD cards, just demand more attention and brewing around with a deck to make them work properly or as intended.
yeah but with that reasoning, you could say no card is BAD, just because somewhere someone can do something with it.
so they could create the most random niche card and still we can't say anything?
I guess in a way I don't forbid card that could be fun and niche to build around, and that why you create different product to appeal to different customer.
Well, anyway, Wizard has been doing it with magic forever, Its just recently they started to see there can be different skew than just set for tournament and such, but still, feel like they purposely make bad card in standard only for the gambling/sealed thing and nothing else, not for "discovery" purpose, I dont think it's had been true (ever), now they can easily do commander specific card and surely could do similar product for "casual" or kitchen table fun, like they do with the un-set.
yeah but with that reasoning, you could say no card is BAD, just because somewhere someone can do something with it.
so they could create the most random niche card and still we can't say anything?
I guess in a way I don't forbid card that could be fun and niche to build around, and that why you create different product to appeal to different customer.
Well, anyway, Wizard has been doing it with magic forever, Its just recently they started to see there can be different skew than just set for tournament and such, but still, feel like they purposely make bad card in standard only for the gambling/sealed thing and nothing else, not for "discovery" purpose, I dont think it's had been true (ever), now they can easily do commander specific card and surely could do similar product for "casual" or kitchen table fun, like they do with the un-set.
Your argument doesn't hold water because it relies so much on using Axis as an example, yet not understanding that it can be a powerful card or why its mythic. As another user already posted, it combos with Adanto Vanguard, a strong, heavily drafted card in the same block and colors. Together, they allow you to pay all your life into Vanguard in response to the trigger, allowing you to kill the opponent with an evasive creature or two. If Axis was, say, and uncommon, then this combo deck would have had a chance to loom large in limited, backed by removal and card draw. As a mythic, it's something cool you could put together if you opened one.
Wizards rarely prints outright bad cards at mythic. When they do, its typically either a mistake that they expected to be more powerful, or a cautiously designed last minute replacement for a broken card that they make weaker because they don't have time to test it.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I just took Axis as an example, maybe I just didnt see basically the only one "potential" combo for limited use, but there a lot of card in magic that seem to be "bleh", Ashes of Abhorrent is quite just "techy" card and all the "build me around" card that are basically useless in limited (Revel the Riches, Liliana's contract, just to name the most recent one), They are very great card in casual fun, but they are not needed in pack/limited...
Anyway, I guess I am a little bit utopist where there would be pack for tournament play and some other thing for casual players (like commander)
yeah but with that reasoning, you could say no card is BAD, just because somewhere someone can do something with it.
so they could create the most random niche card and still we can't say anything?
I guess in a way I don't forbid card that could be fun and niche to build around, and that why you create different product to appeal to different customer.
Well, anyway, Wizard has been doing it with magic forever, Its just recently they started to see there can be different skew than just set for tournament and such, but still, feel like they purposely make bad card in standard only for the gambling/sealed thing and nothing else, not for "discovery" purpose, I dont think it's had been true (ever), now they can easily do commander specific card and surely could do similar product for "casual" or kitchen table fun, like they do with the un-set.
The entire "spike, johnny, timmy" paradigm has been around for a while. It isn't recent.
I know the concept of spike, johny and timmy, I meant that its recent that they "started" to cater to more different player in their product rather than just stick with a regular set launch (like commander, again). And I'm talking about different type of player not the Spike/Johny/Timmy type but the I don't want to play tournament, I prefer a not so stressful environment of kitchen table or different style of play like commander or archenemy.
I meant I wouldn't mind if card are crazy or more niche if they are in a special product, I'm all about diversity, I'm just saying that it's not "needed" in a standard pack in a way.
I know the concept of spike, johny and timmy, I meant that its recent that they "started" to cater to more different player in their product rather than just stick with a regular set launch (like commander, again). And I'm talking about different type of player not the Spike/Johny/Timmy type but the I don't want to play tournament, I prefer a not so stressful environment of kitchen table or different style of play like commander or archenemy.
I meant I wouldn't mind if card are crazy or more niche if they are in a special product, I'm all about diversity, I'm just saying that it's not "needed" in a standard pack in a way.
And what's to say a 6 mana combo card that wins the game couldn't create a viable combo deck? Sometimes these build arounds land, sometimes they don't. Back in New Phyrexia there was a glass cannon deck that used this very same effect, just less efficient version of it because it cost mana to activate (though it was all colorless).
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Not every casual player plays Commander. Been playing casual since ‘94 and Commander is not something I’m that into. Some people just play 60 card constructed without formats.
I’d really hate it if the only way for me to acquire janky combo cards was through Commander products. Back in the old days there were no “special products”, there were booster packs and starter decks. And those starter decks were just random cards. So every card for every type of player came in that “Standard” product.
I don’t usually buy booster packs because I’m not looking to gamble, but single cards come from someone cracking open packs.
Siyan-o, I would suggest just buying singles, it’s by and far the most efficient way to get what you want.
On another note, as has been stated, not all cards are for all players. While you seem to find Axis of Mortality to be a garbage card people I play with would totally build decks around this sort of thing. Axis isn’t even the first card of this type. One of my friends runs Soul Conduit with Phyrexian Unlife.
Look, booster packs have always been a gamble since the game’s inception. If you think Axis of Mortality is bad imagine openning a booster and getting Thoughtlace as your rare. This thing that Siyan-o is complaining about is just endemic with buying boosters. This is why all seasoned players will keep saying to just buy singles.
Not every casual player plays Commander. Been playing casual since ‘94 and Commander is not something I’m that into. Some people just play 60 card constructed without formats.
I’d really hate it if the only way for me to acquire janky combo cards was through Commander products. Back in the old days there were no “special products”, there were booster packs and starter decks. And those starter decks were just random cards. So every card for every type of player came in that “Standard” product.
I don’t usually buy booster packs because I’m not looking to gamble, but single cards come from someone cracking open packs.
Siyan-o, I would suggest just buying singles, it’s by and far the most efficient way to get what you want.
On another note, as has been stated, not all cards are for all players. While you seem to find Axis of Mortality to be a garbage card people I play with would totally build decks around this sort of thing. Axis isn’t even the first card of this type. One of my friends runs Soul Conduit with Phyrexian Unlife.
Look, booster packs have always been a gamble since the game’s inception. If you think Axis of Mortality is bad imagine openning a booster and getting Thoughtlace as your rare. This thing that Siyan-o is complaining about is just endemic with buying boosters. This is why all seasoned players will keep saying to just buy singles.
Unless you draft. But these "bad" cards existing makes draft varied and not just "everyone has bombs all the time", and then people sell their draft chaff and build around rares. Then someone who wants to pick up these cards can buy them cheap as singles. The system works. Except on Arena, because it's all about wildcards there.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I know the card can be used outside Standard, like I said, now that we have product like commander and such, there no more excuse to create a card in Standard if it not going to be used in Standard, they want to make card for commander, then create a commander with it, no need to have it here in a pack, its create a unfun thing to open a Mythic and get this random lame "card",
1) Standard sets are the main source of new cards for the entire game. They print approximately 1,000 cards in standard sets each year. Commander gets less than 60 new cards in the precons each year. Less than 60. Clearly, we want cards from every set, not just the precons.
2) Who's to say what a bad card is? Did you know when Tarmogoyf was first printed, people got mad that they opened a crappy dollar rare, and we had people at the LGS who ripped theirs in half and threw them away. Then it spiked to what, over a hundred dollars? I've had tons of cards that everyone considered garbage until suddenly it was in hot demand - Splinter Twin, Dark Depths, Manamorphose, Simian Spirit Guide. Sometimes things just take time to click.
3) If WOTC didn't experiment, they wouldn't make progress. By daring to fail, they also open up the road to succeed. Otherwise, they would have to play it safe and only print cards that had already been printed or that were guaranteed power creep (which would destroy the game).
I just don't want to gamble again in Magic, I will not buy pack with money anymore because of this "gambling" mechanic
Opening packs is for suckers. The gambling high gets people to buy pack after pack in search of cards they could have just purchased for cheaper (even expensive ones). I play almost exclusively Commander and Cube, and I buy singles. Guaranteed value because you are getting exactly what you want.
I know the card can be used outside Standard, like I said, now that we have product like commander and such, there no more excuse to create a card in Standard if it not going to be used in Standard, they want to make card for commander, then create a commander with it, no need to have it here in a pack, its create a unfun thing to open a Mythic and get this random lame "card",
1) Standard sets are the main source of new cards for the entire game. They print approximately 1,000 cards in standard sets each year. Commander gets less than 60 new cards in the precons each year. Less than 60. Clearly, we want cards from every set, not just the precons.
2) Who's to say what a bad card is? Did you know when Tarmogoyf was first printed, people got mad that they opened a crappy dollar rare, and we had people at the LGS who ripped theirs in half and threw them away. Then it spiked to what, over a hundred dollars? I've had tons of cards that everyone considered garbage until suddenly it was in hot demand - Splinter Twin, Dark Depths, Manamorphose, Simian Spirit Guide. Sometimes things just take time to click.
3) If WOTC didn't experiment, they wouldn't make progress. By daring to fail, they also open up the road to succeed. Otherwise, they would have to play it safe and only print cards that had already been printed or that were guaranteed power creep (which would destroy the game).
I just don't want to gamble again in Magic, I will not buy pack with money anymore because of this "gambling" mechanic
Opening packs is for suckers. The gambling high gets people to buy pack after pack in search of cards they could have just purchased for cheaper (even expensive ones). I play almost exclusively Commander and Cube, and I buy singles. Guaranteed value because you are getting exactly what you want.
As far as not buying packs, well welcome to every 'eternal' players experience, many of us just buy singles.
Spot on.
To go back even further....
Siyan-o,
While I don't necessarily agree with the article you linked to. I also have issues with how WotC leverages "bad cards" the way they do. I don't necessarily agree with your argument though.
If you re-read the article, you'll note that Lion's Eye Diamond is the example cited as a bad card. This is the same set that hosted Phyrexian Dreadnought and the same meta with Force of Will, all cards people initially thought were garbage. Take a peek at their prices now.
I remember all of those cards when they were opened in packs and how janky everyone thought they were, especially LED. I think the only combo anyone could think of at the time was to use it with a permanent with an activation cost.
From Oath of the Gatewatch at Mythic; Mirrorpool didn't set standard alight, but it isn't for that. What it is, is a card worth remembering for Modern or Commander. It does something which is an already unusual effect, copies spells or creatures. Looking at the first part Twincast or Increasing Vengeance, can do this effect at CMC 2, but that mana is solid coloured, Mirrorpool does it in colourless. Similarly Clone effects, but again you need coloured mana... One day, something will likely work with Mirrorpool and let it be broken, simply because it isn't tied to blue or red mana. The only way Mirrorpool can enter Modern is via Standard, there is no other route!
I haven't bought packs in years. I buy a playset of the commons/uncommons from a given set, I've been doing this since Zendikar in 2009, this gives me the basics, sure a lot is chaff, but those that aren't that's it, I have my play set. This costs around £25-£30 the other £40 I could have spent on a booster box is used to get the rares/mythics I want, occasionally I'll spend slightly more than that £40, but the point is I've removed the random experience from my card purchasing.
Here is another factor, in paper magic, when mythics are weird/interesting rather than staples, the value of a pack gets more evenly spread across the rares and some uncommons, every set has a certain degree of staples. If mythics are just bombs you need 4x of, everything else suffers value wise.
Cards are on;ly janky until something comes along and makes them relevant. Dark Depths was a prime example until Vampire Hexmage was introduced. As SavannahLion mentioned, LED was considered bad until it was errata'd (I believe) and found a home in Dredge decks.
Granted there are some awful cards that don't deserve the cardboard and ink they were made of but I guess it's all relative in the game of endless possibilities.
'buster
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Cards are on;ly janky until something comes along and makes them relevant. Dark Depths was a prime example until Vampire Hexmage was introduced. As SavannahLion mentioned, LED was considered bad until it was errata'd (I believe) and found a home in Dredge decks.
Granted there are some awful cards that don't deserve the cardboard and ink they were made of but I guess it's all relative in the game of endless possibilities.
'buster
Cards that do powerful things are potentially always broken, if their "drawback" is turned into an advantage and/or easy to work with.
LED was much harder to abuse without Storm as a mechanic and without mechanics like flashback and the like.
It was almost impossible to really get something out of it.
Discarding your hand can easily be an advantage as its exactly what you want (aka Dredge, even works with madness, but dredge is simply better).
Thats the essence of Johnny cards, find the combination and break the game, no matter how seemingly useless the parts look, as long as they just produce a combo everything is fine.
And lots and lots of cards fall into the group of potentially busted, but missing a key card to combo with.
yeah, but obviously if you have a game that lasts 25 years old you are bound to make very old card to become in some way good. I mean card back then was super strong just that the overall content was pretty weak compared to it, so yeah. But then again, can you make a bad card in a booster just for the sake that maybe in the next 10-15 years it's going to be good? that a lame excuse and that excuse only exist for pack opening. And again, now they can easily make different product, I am pretty sure people outside the sealed format don't really buy packs. Since you rather buy single of what you need and or that commander deck that let you have super cool card that you can't get in a booster.
I would like a more interesting way to do it. Rather than being that poor guy opening "do something, search a specific planewalker", Fon't of agonies, Unmoored Ego for example in a sealed, I'm not saying those card are that bad, just in a limited format they are quite weaker.
So, outside the concept for rarities in pack and the sealed format, is there a need for rarities? Would its be that bad to go toward a LCG/TCG route, a mix between pack and product that don't have randomness (like commander, funny how commander product are great)
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Although being myself a brewer I really like to try and make almost all "bad" rare card to work, but some cards that exist seem to be a little too extreme, I know that some really bad card see play. Is having a card really really bad make other cards look better? Personally, I don't think so, that very bad card existing and never be played is nearly the same as not existing in the first place.
I'm not saying bad card and card that is very "techy" (hose specific shenanigans, like "Ashe of Abhorrent") should not exist.
Although for now in the current card available to us in Arena I only consider one card which I really question.
Axis of Immortality. I really, really have a hard time understanding how you can do anything with this, maybe there some combination or shenanigan I don't get, but this card is very slow at 6 mana, as no immediate impact on the board and take a least another full turn to even do something which is a weird effect.
Also, Font of Agonies, but it's not that bad because of all the shock lands in standard.
Now that non-Standard set can be created (like commander and such) is there a need to put such random pseudo very niche card in a standard set outside the lame excuse of the gambling in sealed format?
Mythics should be interesting build around cards, not staples of an environment, too many mythics are the later.
EDIT - Ashes of the Abhorrent is a softer answer than Rest in Peace and is on a par with Grafdigger's Cage, answers are necessary...
That even worked in Limited with Adanto Vanguard to rip down your life total on choice (right before you switch the life totals with the upkeep trigger on the stack is pretty much the best moment in time) , then you attack and you win.
White and especially mono white are pushed in a Weenie strategy and Aggro decks, so the card really doesnt do anything, especially as the opponent has plenty of options to destroy/exile and enchantment, they simply put too many enchantment removal on cards during Ixalan and in current standard (Planeswalkers in standard have the tendency to be able to remove enchantments, which is fairly destructive for this kind of card).
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Font of Agonies also works quite well with Adanto Vanguard as you can fairly easily pay 4 life to fuel it right away, and getting some life back with lifelink creatures also works.
And still its not really that great of a card, as it demands a lot from you do just get a single Murder out of it, and to truly abuse it multiple times, you also have to draw it before you pay life for other cards.
Its at least "remotely" playable, but it also doesnt really work well with the strategies that are dominant and there are simply better options that are easier to abuse , like Profane Procession which exiles and produces a much more self-fuelling removal source , but asks for a lot more mana ; in standard both suffer from the excess of enchantment removal and even if you get a single removal out of it, its not really worth the cost, especially not if your metagame is made out of fast aggro decks that demand mass removal and quick answers.
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Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Art is life itself.
There is a reason. Not every card in a set is meant for X.
X can be: Constructed, Limited, Commander, Modern, or even Legacy/Vintage such as Lavinia, Azorius Renegade having sets provide cards for all types of players, ensures there is something for everyone to get excited about.
As far as not buying packs, well welcome to every 'eternal' players experience, many of us just buy singles.
Spirits
I still have trouble to see the point of having "very bad" card certainly even more in mythic rarity in packs outside of "greediness" and gamble mechanic, which is a lame excuse to have, but we need card for everyone. You can easily create more niche or special card in other product, like commander or such. Casual player and such don't buy packs anyway? so in a way it was only made for sealed and draft powerlevel which is basically the only place rarity really matters.
There are plenty of cards that are actually just BAD in a objective view, and even they have a reason to exist, even if these are overall much more annoying to have around.
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Mythic and rare cards that do something special are simply cards for people to find how to abuse them, and often enough can be used for good in a more casual approach of commander.
So they are really not BAD cards, just demand more attention and brewing around with a deck to make them work properly or as intended.
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so they could create the most random niche card and still we can't say anything?
I guess in a way I don't forbid card that could be fun and niche to build around, and that why you create different product to appeal to different customer.
Well, anyway, Wizard has been doing it with magic forever, Its just recently they started to see there can be different skew than just set for tournament and such, but still, feel like they purposely make bad card in standard only for the gambling/sealed thing and nothing else, not for "discovery" purpose, I dont think it's had been true (ever), now they can easily do commander specific card and surely could do similar product for "casual" or kitchen table fun, like they do with the un-set.
Your argument doesn't hold water because it relies so much on using Axis as an example, yet not understanding that it can be a powerful card or why its mythic. As another user already posted, it combos with Adanto Vanguard, a strong, heavily drafted card in the same block and colors. Together, they allow you to pay all your life into Vanguard in response to the trigger, allowing you to kill the opponent with an evasive creature or two. If Axis was, say, and uncommon, then this combo deck would have had a chance to loom large in limited, backed by removal and card draw. As a mythic, it's something cool you could put together if you opened one.
Wizards rarely prints outright bad cards at mythic. When they do, its typically either a mistake that they expected to be more powerful, or a cautiously designed last minute replacement for a broken card that they make weaker because they don't have time to test it.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Anyway, I guess I am a little bit utopist where there would be pack for tournament play and some other thing for casual players (like commander)
The entire "spike, johnny, timmy" paradigm has been around for a while. It isn't recent.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/timmy-johnny-and-spike-2013-12-03
Not every card is a spike/tournament card.
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I meant I wouldn't mind if card are crazy or more niche if they are in a special product, I'm all about diversity, I'm just saying that it's not "needed" in a standard pack in a way.
And what's to say a 6 mana combo card that wins the game couldn't create a viable combo deck? Sometimes these build arounds land, sometimes they don't. Back in New Phyrexia there was a glass cannon deck that used this very same effect, just less efficient version of it because it cost mana to activate (though it was all colorless).
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I’d really hate it if the only way for me to acquire janky combo cards was through Commander products. Back in the old days there were no “special products”, there were booster packs and starter decks. And those starter decks were just random cards. So every card for every type of player came in that “Standard” product.
I don’t usually buy booster packs because I’m not looking to gamble, but single cards come from someone cracking open packs.
Siyan-o, I would suggest just buying singles, it’s by and far the most efficient way to get what you want.
On another note, as has been stated, not all cards are for all players. While you seem to find Axis of Mortality to be a garbage card people I play with would totally build decks around this sort of thing. Axis isn’t even the first card of this type. One of my friends runs Soul Conduit with Phyrexian Unlife.
Look, booster packs have always been a gamble since the game’s inception. If you think Axis of Mortality is bad imagine openning a booster and getting Thoughtlace as your rare. This thing that Siyan-o is complaining about is just endemic with buying boosters. This is why all seasoned players will keep saying to just buy singles.
Unless you draft. But these "bad" cards existing makes draft varied and not just "everyone has bombs all the time", and then people sell their draft chaff and build around rares. Then someone who wants to pick up these cards can buy them cheap as singles. The system works. Except on Arena, because it's all about wildcards there.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
2) Who's to say what a bad card is? Did you know when Tarmogoyf was first printed, people got mad that they opened a crappy dollar rare, and we had people at the LGS who ripped theirs in half and threw them away. Then it spiked to what, over a hundred dollars? I've had tons of cards that everyone considered garbage until suddenly it was in hot demand - Splinter Twin, Dark Depths, Manamorphose, Simian Spirit Guide. Sometimes things just take time to click.
3) If WOTC didn't experiment, they wouldn't make progress. By daring to fail, they also open up the road to succeed. Otherwise, they would have to play it safe and only print cards that had already been printed or that were guaranteed power creep (which would destroy the game). Opening packs is for suckers. The gambling high gets people to buy pack after pack in search of cards they could have just purchased for cheaper (even expensive ones). I play almost exclusively Commander and Cube, and I buy singles. Guaranteed value because you are getting exactly what you want. Spot on.
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To go back even further....
Siyan-o,
While I don't necessarily agree with the article you linked to. I also have issues with how WotC leverages "bad cards" the way they do. I don't necessarily agree with your argument though.
If you re-read the article, you'll note that Lion's Eye Diamond is the example cited as a bad card. This is the same set that hosted Phyrexian Dreadnought and the same meta with Force of Will, all cards people initially thought were garbage. Take a peek at their prices now.
I remember all of those cards when they were opened in packs and how janky everyone thought they were, especially LED. I think the only combo anyone could think of at the time was to use it with a permanent with an activation cost.
From Oath of the Gatewatch at Mythic; Mirrorpool didn't set standard alight, but it isn't for that. What it is, is a card worth remembering for Modern or Commander. It does something which is an already unusual effect, copies spells or creatures. Looking at the first part Twincast or Increasing Vengeance, can do this effect at CMC 2, but that mana is solid coloured, Mirrorpool does it in colourless. Similarly Clone effects, but again you need coloured mana... One day, something will likely work with Mirrorpool and let it be broken, simply because it isn't tied to blue or red mana. The only way Mirrorpool can enter Modern is via Standard, there is no other route!
I haven't bought packs in years. I buy a playset of the commons/uncommons from a given set, I've been doing this since Zendikar in 2009, this gives me the basics, sure a lot is chaff, but those that aren't that's it, I have my play set. This costs around £25-£30 the other £40 I could have spent on a booster box is used to get the rares/mythics I want, occasionally I'll spend slightly more than that £40, but the point is I've removed the random experience from my card purchasing.
Here is another factor, in paper magic, when mythics are weird/interesting rather than staples, the value of a pack gets more evenly spread across the rares and some uncommons, every set has a certain degree of staples. If mythics are just bombs you need 4x of, everything else suffers value wise.
Granted there are some awful cards that don't deserve the cardboard and ink they were made of but I guess it's all relative in the game of endless possibilities.
'buster
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Cards that do powerful things are potentially always broken, if their "drawback" is turned into an advantage and/or easy to work with.
LED was much harder to abuse without Storm as a mechanic and without mechanics like flashback and the like.
It was almost impossible to really get something out of it.
Discarding your hand can easily be an advantage as its exactly what you want (aka Dredge, even works with madness, but dredge is simply better).
Thats the essence of Johnny cards, find the combination and break the game, no matter how seemingly useless the parts look, as long as they just produce a combo everything is fine.
And lots and lots of cards fall into the group of potentially busted, but missing a key card to combo with.
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I would like a more interesting way to do it. Rather than being that poor guy opening "do something, search a specific planewalker", Fon't of agonies, Unmoored Ego for example in a sealed, I'm not saying those card are that bad, just in a limited format they are quite weaker.
So, outside the concept for rarities in pack and the sealed format, is there a need for rarities? Would its be that bad to go toward a LCG/TCG route, a mix between pack and product that don't have randomness (like commander, funny how commander product are great)