I had a conversation with a new store clerk at my LGS about Magic and I haven't been able to get what he said out of my head lately.
He said he doesn't like Magic: the Gathering because he feels the mechanics are limited in design because of the nature of the game. He is a big-time board game player and prefers them over a collectible card game like MTG because they explore unique design space that just isn't possible otherwise.
This got me thinking about the "new" mechanics we've been getting in recent sets. I'm starting to feel like new keywords tend to be more of the same. Adjusting power/toughness of creatures, offering casting costs discounts for meeting certain criteria, giving you tokens, manipulating the library...
Is anyone else feeling like we're beating a dead horse? I'm especially tired of seeing 1/1 tokens and +1/+1 counters in specific.
I don't want this to be a negative discussion, so do you think that there could be new designs for cards that really think outside the box? I still love the game and I think the new cards are cool and all, but I can't shake this feeling that we're not breaking new ground.
Many of the newer mechanics are just reworkings of older mechanics. Yes, often times it does feel like beating a dead horse. After 25 years they've pretty much mined the game of all the playable mechanics available. Magic is a complex game in its totality, more complex than any board game I've ever encountered, and MTG designers have come up against a wall. New mechanics usually are a new take on an older mechanic or they're an oddball mechanic from a singular card expanded into a set mechanic. Anything truly novel is rare these days. After 25 years coming up with novel ideas that don't derail the game is quite a task. Also, new mechanics not only have to try and be "new", they have to be fun to play.
It's not quite fair to compare an entire genre of games(board games) to one card game. Magic has done quite a job of exploring within design constraints, balancing novelty with familiarity, after all if the game changes too much would it still be Magic. They also have to keep power creep to a minimum as well.
If you only play Standard, Magic can be tired, but a foray through the various formats and time periods can give you a wider view of the game's complexity and beauty.
There'e only so much design space in any game, and at some point every game will become repetitive. Given MTG's length of time and volume of sets, they've done an alright job. Full disclosure, I don't play Standard or even buy new product anymore, but still enjoy the game immensely.
Entwine, Offering, Replicate, Champion, Conspire, Devour, Overload, Extort, Exploit, Awaken, Ingest, and Escalate would all be the same or nearly the same if you replaced them with kicker or multikicker. I'm sure there are other abilities I missed that could be replaced with a kicker ability, too. There are only so many things that can be done, and when you've already got a mechanic that says "do an extra thing to get a different/extra effect" you've limited yourself in what new things you can do.
Hi everyone!
I'm sorry to butt in but I didn't know where else to go. I need desperate help.
My boyfriend is very big into Magic and has almost everything. He mentioned something about wanting to get these new cards? Mentioned something about it being over $100? He wasn't specific about it and I also don't know the first thing about Magic.
I was going to buy him MtG Magic Core Set 2019 Booster Box [36 Packs]. My question is.. is that a good gift? I just don't want to buy it and it's something that he's not excited about? Or what's something else I can get him instead? He's an advanced player.
Please and thank you for any help.
I think they should create a set where artists are hired to just make art, giving the artists full reign to make whatever they want. I dunno, call it "the art set" or whatever. The mechanics of the cards is decided afterwards, not beforehand. The set designers make rules for the cards based on said art.
That is an awful idea, would lead to a set with zero cohesion, zero story, and likely cards as sensible as Stasis.
Yeah, that's why Hasbro has started building a water park themed after their properties including Magic. Because they're going to sell off the Magic IP. Right.
Personally, I think they've lost their way a long time ago, though. The feel of the game's original style, before it turned into a comic book look-a-like has been abandoned completely. Remember, the early game had sets featuring real life myth and occultism--Satanic pentagrams, Allah, etc.
Do you not understand that having trademark-able characters with their own story is a much stronger business move that's more profitable to them? You're complaining about Wizards needing to sell their IP and in the next breath complaining that they did something that helps them not need to sell their IP.
I hope they will kill off a great deal of neowalkers, so we return to a very small cast of planeswalkers.
There are currently 40 post-Mending planeswalker characters. There are 30 pre-Mending planeswalkers that have been mentioned by name, as well as a number of pre-Mending planeswalkers that have not been given names, and a handful that were originally pre-Mending planeswalkers, but the story has retconned into not being planeswalkers at all. A "very small cast" we do not have.
There is still design space; For example in alternative win conditions (not life, not mill). But I doubt they have the guts to do it.
We've literally just had a new alternate wincon card spoiled for RNA. We currently have 22 alternate wincon cards, three alternate wincons in silver-border, and a new one coming out next set.
IMHO, there's a massive amount of untapped design space. If you look at any custom Magic board, you'll see tons of creative and fresh designs. We could have plenty more blocks like Time Spiral. The thing is just that WotC is very conservative about using it up quickly, because they're pacing the game on a trajectory to last another 25+ years.
For example, one mechanic I'm using in a game design of my own that is Magic-like: There's a bunch of cards that are like Split cards, but are permanents, with a Pure/Corrupt side. When you play either side, a global variable get's set to that side, Pure or Corrupt, and this global variable determines the status of all the Pure/Corrupt cards in play...so it's even affecting the cards of other players.
So you can have one card that has a 1 CMC Pure side and 3 CMC Corrupt side, then another with a 2 CMC Pure side and 2 CMC Corrupt side...play the first one as Pure, then the 2nd one as Corrupt causing all cards to be Corrupt and get value. You can build your deck around wanting to have the world be a certain state, as well as metagaming against those decks with lots of even Pure/Corrupt CMC cards just to control the global variable.
It adds a whole new aspect to the game, as well as a whole new "faction" to align yourself with in deckbuilding, without adding much components to the game (just a doublesided Pure/Corrupt card you flip over).
WotC could add mechanics like this, revisit Phasing but actually make it aggressively costed, have lands with Channel abilities, add new card types, maybe something like Vanguard abilities, a 2nd deck like Contraptions in Unstable, all kinds of big things that would really break out new design space.
But they don't want to, because they want to spend novelty very slowly and conservatively.
There is still design space; For example in alternative win conditions (not life, not mill). But I doubt they have the guts to do it.
We've literally just had a new alternate wincon card spoiled for RNA. We currently have 22 alternate wincon cards, three alternate wincons in silver-border, and a new one coming out next set.
I think what he's talking about is adding an entire new win-condition to the game, not just a single card. Poison or milling, for example, which aren't just a single card but a huge amount of cards to support that specific strategy.
Just as a top-of-the-head example, lets say a player loses the game if they own 30 or more cards in exile.
The current form they design sets kinda repeats the same formula over and over.
They just print cards that are kinda similar to existing ones , especially at common and uncommon , there is very very rarely something new.
The same is true for mechanics. They like to roll it save and just do what they already know and repeat it over and over and over, till players get sick of it.
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Experiments come with a cost to fail or be great.
They shy away from that and just go on infinite repeat.
At least we get a handful of cards that still do something special, but more often than not these cards are over costed or just not supported enough to make any spot in constructed , but they do provide a new angle of gameplay, they have a fear from cards to be too good, especially if they cant really say how good a card will be, they simply make it more expensive and thats usually the nail in the coffin.
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The last set that really pushed the level of complexity was the Time Spiral set, which did so much combinations of mechanics and nostalgia, combined with messing around with the core mechanics of the game, its "too much" for a lot of players, which is sad.
Some players cant get enough complexity and special effects, but the audience for that is just too small, so we get the opposite, streamlined stupified mechanics that just do the same stuff over and over again in minimal different ways, its boring yes, but really only to the people that desperatly want more complexity and play the game every week, people that have longer breaks or skip entire sets will not immediatly recognize that a mechanic is just a repeat, as they didnt play at that time.
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Its a real issue, but it also simply not the way they make sets right now and probably wont in the future.
At least there are Cubes. Simply build a cube with cards and mechanics you enjoy and play with people that do the same, its the only really way out to get what you want.
For mechanics, I'm liking the "enrage" from Ixalan and the "exert" from Amonkhet.
None of my decks are centered on +1/+1 counter strategy, so I'm not bored with that.
Mtg is cyclical in my life... I might get tired and quit temporarily, but always come back to play again.
New mechanics (Energy) often enough also break things.
Then again, I've seen the same situation on most fandom forums, from Fairy Tail to Pokemon to Overwatch: nowhere will you find more negativity towards a product, then in the forum dedicated to fans of that product.
Entwine, Offering, Replicate, Champion, Conspire, Devour, Overload, Extort, Exploit, Awaken, Ingest, and Escalate would all be the same or nearly the same if you replaced them with kicker or multikicker. I'm sure there are other abilities I missed that could be replaced with a kicker ability, too. There are only so many things that can be done, and when you've already got a mechanic that says "do an extra thing to get a different/extra effect" you've limited yourself in what new things you can do.
Funny thing is, it was years later that I realized buyback (which of course existed before kicker) was...another form of kicker.
What's not kicker is split card, like entwine is basically a split card with the same mana cost and you can fuse them for just a little bit moar than their mana cost, e.g. Tooth and Nail as a split card would look like:
Tooth5GG
Sorcery
Search your library for up to two creature cards and put them in your hand.
//
Nail5GG
Sorcery
Put two creature cards from your hand on the battlefield.
Yoke 7GG(You may cast both halves of this spell by paying its yoke cost.)
The other one is flashback. Unearth, scavenge, embalm/eternalize (another "same mechanic, different name" situation like persist/undying), and aftermath are all just variants on flashback.
And one could argue that metalcraft, landfall (on a spell), morbid, raid, spell mastery, and delirium (those last two even more than the others) are all variants on threshold.
One could also argue convoke and improvise are variants on affinity. And constellation is a variant on landfall.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. Many of these mechanics are popular for a reason. We now have afterlife, which makes Doomed Traveler a keyword.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Ever heard of Dredge or Storm? Turned out those mechanics are completely busted.
Then there was Delve which created monsters like Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time and even the not-busted ones are still very good and playable.
And not that long ago there was Energy.
It's easy to say they should be more creative but the thing is the crying will be even louder if they mess it up. And that's always a risk when making a mechanic that does something that has never been done before.
What's not kicker is split card, like entwine is basically a split card with the same mana cost and you can fuse them for just a little bit moar than their mana cost
Entwine could absolutely be kicker.
Tooth and Kicked Nail 5GG
Sorcery
Kicker 2
Choose one or choose both if Tooth and Kicked Nail was kicked:
Search your library for up to two creature cards, reveal them, put them into your hand, then shuffle your library.
Put up to two creature cards from your hand onto the battlefield.
That doesn't even have any cases making it slightly different from Entwine (like for example Devour versus Kicker-as-Devour). This would be functionally identical to actual T&N.
Ever heard of Dredge or Storm? Turned out those mechanics are completely busted.
Then there was Delve which created monsters like Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time and even the not-busted ones are still very good and playable.
And not that long ago there was Energy.
It's easy to say they should be more creative but the thing is the crying will be even louder if they mess it up. And that's always a risk when making a mechanic that does something that has never been done before.
I would go and argue that these mechanics are EXACTLY right, as they are powerful enough to break into constructed.
And lets face it, every card that sees play in modern is in some way, shape or form, a "busted" card or downright a mistake as its just too pushed.
Self-mill as a strategy works thanks to Dredge, so that is in general a good thing, as its an entirely different form of playing the game, which enriches the game.
Storm is a mechanic that requires a lot of setup to work, unless you pair it with rituals and cards that ramp into it for the single big turn.
In general, storm is also a great mechanic, at the bunch of cards produced entire NEW decks that would not work before.
Again, it enriched the game with an entirely different form of playing the game.
These mechanics are dangerous as they do something so different and they require different answers, as they dont follow a mindboggling stupid way of playing creatures and attacking, thats just an tiny aspect of magic and what it can do.
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Cards with "kicker" variants are just a bit more flexible, if one mode is good, the kicker bonus is just the cherry on top.
Cards with "flashback" variants are somewhat inherent 2-for-1 spells, they are pretty much good from the get go.
Cost-reduction mechanics are dangerous as they become busted the moment they are abused the most, or too easy to abuse.
Outside of that, mechanics that do something truly new can very easily produce entirely new decks that attack an angle the game did not have before, and by that chances are that the deck has no real good "counter" cards.
But the game becomes so much better if you have these mechanics and give players new decks to explore, instead of repeating the same stuff over and over again in tiny variations.
I think there is design space still open and I think design space should be broadened for less used mechanics. Let me give some examples.
Emblems: Lets have some mythics or rares that can generate these and some cards then that can interact with them.
Energy: Again, lets have some different ways to use these and have ways of draining or destroying an opponents.
Counters other than +1/+1: How about a +2/+2 counter? How about a counter that gives deathtouch, haste, doublestrike, etc. And again a way to move these around or remove them.
Paying Life, Paying Turns, Paying Counters or Paying Phases
Leyline effects
Token Enchantments
Yes all of these add complexity. But its a complex game anyway. If not we can expect more and more variations on +1/+1 counters and token creatures.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
They wont do that anymore, the ordinary player is simply overwhelmed by this.
Its in contrast to what players enjoy that are more engraved into the game and stick with it longer, but its the pill to swallow.
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In non-standard product they are more into trying more complexity out.
Even the Un-Sets add more complexity and Draft-Sets did cards that do more than what they would do for standard.
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Simply put, any set that will be standard-legal is doomed to be as trivial as possible.
They just wont do anything complex anymore, that train went off quite some time ago.
They wont do that anymore, the ordinary player is simply overwhelmed by this.
I agree, they are anti-complexity right now. But the OP wanted ideas so I gave them.
Enfranchised players will become overly bored at some point if they continue the status quo. Maybe they should go back to Basic, Advanced and Expert level formats or something of the sort to get some of this stuff in besides just Un Sets and Commander.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Enfranchised players will become overly bored at some point if they continue the status quo. Maybe they should go back to Basic, Advanced and Expert level formats or something of the sort to get some of this stuff in besides just Un Sets and Commander.
Enfranchised players might be bored of Standard, but I think they can just be satisfied with other more high-complexity formats like Commander, Cube, Legacy, and Pauper (yeah, I think even Pauper is more complex than Standard).
Enfranchised players will become overly bored at some point if they continue the status quo. Maybe they should go back to Basic, Advanced and Expert level formats or something of the sort to get some of this stuff in besides just Un Sets and Commander.
Enfranchised players might be bored of Standard, but I think they can just be satisfied with other more high-complexity formats like Commander, Cube, Legacy, and Pauper (yeah, I think even Pauper is more complex than Standard).
Yes, Pauper is more complex than Standard by quite a bit.
But without playable/competitive eternal constructed cards those formats will grow stale at some point as well. (Barring Bans/Unbans, downshifts of rarity) Not for a while, but eventually as those formats become "solved". I don't want complexity for complexities sake, but I would like to see it trickle in a little bit more.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Then again, I've seen the same situation on most fandom forums, from Fairy Tail to Pokemon to Overwatch: nowhere will you find more negativity towards a product, then in the forum dedicated to fans of that product.
I agree, and you get a cookie.
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Anyway, just some last thoughts on the +1/+1 counter stuff. As far as I know, among the competitive ones... the only Modern deck dedicated to using +1/+1 counters as a main strategy is Hardened Scales Affinity. So I'm not really tired or bored of +1/+1 counters in Modern.
Anyway, just some last thoughts on the +1/+1 counter stuff. As far as I know, among the competitive ones... the only Modern deck dedicated to using +1/+1 counters as a main strategy is Hardened Scales Affinity. So I'm not really tired or bored of +1/+1 counters in Modern.
I think this supports the OP's point. You may like the counters, but the FORMAT/META is saying +1/+1 counters (as a main strategy) are not competitive enough for it at this point. (Outside Scales decks) When WotC churns out mechanic after mechanic with +1/+1 counters and almost none of those show up speaks volumes about the playability/competitiveness of that mechanic. Modern will only use them if they are "good enough".
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I would assume we are talking about Modern. Actually, +1/+1 counters as main strategy not being competitive outside scales decks is actually OK for me. Because if it is competitive in multiple other decks... then the whole of modern would be littered with those "+1/+1 counters matter" decks, things would get boring fast. So I see the +1/+1 strategy being competitive in only one deck = Hardended Scales, as seeing the positive side, instead of seeing the negative. I enjoy modern being diverse, sitting at sunday night magic and play against different kinds of strategy and not just one kind is fun.
Ok, I know fun is subjective.. but I don't feel the need to rant about +1/+1 counters because it does not currently affect the way I enjoy magic.
For example, last time I played against a Grixis Shadow, Elves, and a homebrew Trophy Mage deck with equip and goyf. After the last game is over walking home with friends.. would I be ranting or feeling negative about the lack of a +1/+1 counter deck in the store? Of course not.
I felt like OP did for a while.. I had pretty strong feeling that sounded a lot like yours. Let some time pass--these feelings will pass.
At the end of the day, I eventually realized the only reason I got remotely 'upset' over any of this was becuase I was spending way too much time/money obssessing over this game. Life changes made that less possible and now these things don't really bother me anymore. (Way happier by the way.)
Don't get too wrapped up in this game. It doesn't really matter that much to be honest. Keep it in perspective. Really---who cares?
That being said, yes, they do lean heavily on +1/+1 counters. It's because there is no obviously easier (and equally simple to "grok") method of showing incremental growth on a card in play other than to use simple 'counters'. Since it is (increasily so) primarly a game decided by creature combat, it's really a pretty obvious thing we would be getting some +1/+1 counter theme in every set.
MY biggest gripe about this topic is the endless creation of NEW keywords that are basically just twists on prior mechanics that essentially do the same thing, but they rename them purely for flavor/world-building concerns for STANDARD. The problem for the rest of us not playing Standard (virtually 95% of Magic players worldwide) don't just play standard so we have remember all this stupid nonsense and try to keep it straight at casual tables. I play with a (former) L2. He is the smartest guy I know and even HE has a hard time keeping all the different +1/+1 counter mechanics straight. Again, to be clear: His issue isn't understanding how they work, the real challenge is keeping them all straight in his head.
They rail against complexity at the card level but they are total ******* morons about this at the GAME level.
He said he doesn't like Magic: the Gathering because he feels the mechanics are limited in design because of the nature of the game. He is a big-time board game player and prefers them over a collectible card game like MTG because they explore unique design space that just isn't possible otherwise.
This got me thinking about the "new" mechanics we've been getting in recent sets. I'm starting to feel like new keywords tend to be more of the same. Adjusting power/toughness of creatures, offering casting costs discounts for meeting certain criteria, giving you tokens, manipulating the library...
Is anyone else feeling like we're beating a dead horse? I'm especially tired of seeing 1/1 tokens and +1/+1 counters in specific.
I don't want this to be a negative discussion, so do you think that there could be new designs for cards that really think outside the box? I still love the game and I think the new cards are cool and all, but I can't shake this feeling that we're not breaking new ground.
What are your thoughts?
UGTurboFogGU
BRSacrificial AggroBR
16The Paper Pauper Battle Bag16
EDH
BRRakdos, Lord of PingersBR
GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
UB Ramses OverdarkUB
Sig by Ace5301 of Ace of Spades Studio
It's not quite fair to compare an entire genre of games(board games) to one card game. Magic has done quite a job of exploring within design constraints, balancing novelty with familiarity, after all if the game changes too much would it still be Magic. They also have to keep power creep to a minimum as well.
If you only play Standard, Magic can be tired, but a foray through the various formats and time periods can give you a wider view of the game's complexity and beauty.
There'e only so much design space in any game, and at some point every game will become repetitive. Given MTG's length of time and volume of sets, they've done an alright job. Full disclosure, I don't play Standard or even buy new product anymore, but still enjoy the game immensely.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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I'm sorry to butt in but I didn't know where else to go. I need desperate help.
My boyfriend is very big into Magic and has almost everything. He mentioned something about wanting to get these new cards? Mentioned something about it being over $100? He wasn't specific about it and I also don't know the first thing about Magic.
I was going to buy him MtG Magic Core Set 2019 Booster Box [36 Packs]. My question is.. is that a good gift? I just don't want to buy it and it's something that he's not excited about? Or what's something else I can get him instead? He's an advanced player.
Please and thank you for any help.
Yeah, that's why Hasbro has started building a water park themed after their properties including Magic. Because they're going to sell off the Magic IP. Right.
Do you not understand that having trademark-able characters with their own story is a much stronger business move that's more profitable to them? You're complaining about Wizards needing to sell their IP and in the next breath complaining that they did something that helps them not need to sell their IP.
There are currently 40 post-Mending planeswalker characters. There are 30 pre-Mending planeswalkers that have been mentioned by name, as well as a number of pre-Mending planeswalkers that have not been given names, and a handful that were originally pre-Mending planeswalkers, but the story has retconned into not being planeswalkers at all. A "very small cast" we do not have.
We've literally just had a new alternate wincon card spoiled for RNA. We currently have 22 alternate wincon cards, three alternate wincons in silver-border, and a new one coming out next set.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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For example, one mechanic I'm using in a game design of my own that is Magic-like: There's a bunch of cards that are like Split cards, but are permanents, with a Pure/Corrupt side. When you play either side, a global variable get's set to that side, Pure or Corrupt, and this global variable determines the status of all the Pure/Corrupt cards in play...so it's even affecting the cards of other players.
So you can have one card that has a 1 CMC Pure side and 3 CMC Corrupt side, then another with a 2 CMC Pure side and 2 CMC Corrupt side...play the first one as Pure, then the 2nd one as Corrupt causing all cards to be Corrupt and get value. You can build your deck around wanting to have the world be a certain state, as well as metagaming against those decks with lots of even Pure/Corrupt CMC cards just to control the global variable.
It adds a whole new aspect to the game, as well as a whole new "faction" to align yourself with in deckbuilding, without adding much components to the game (just a doublesided Pure/Corrupt card you flip over).
WotC could add mechanics like this, revisit Phasing but actually make it aggressively costed, have lands with Channel abilities, add new card types, maybe something like Vanguard abilities, a 2nd deck like Contraptions in Unstable, all kinds of big things that would really break out new design space.
But they don't want to, because they want to spend novelty very slowly and conservatively.
I think what he's talking about is adding an entire new win-condition to the game, not just a single card. Poison or milling, for example, which aren't just a single card but a huge amount of cards to support that specific strategy.
Just as a top-of-the-head example, lets say a player loses the game if they own 30 or more cards in exile.
Corrupt Control B | Burn R | UG Turbofog UG | White Weenie W | GW Tethmos WG | BG Cycling Combo BG
Enchantress GBW | Colorless Tron C | Red Deck Wins R | UG Madness UG | Mono-G Tron G | UR Puzzlehorns UR
Rhystic Tron WU| WU Prowess WU | BR Reanimator BR | Mono-R Control R | Stompy G | Temur Tron URG
Mardu Infinite Priest WBR | 85-Card Dredge BRG | Elves GU | Boros Bully RW | Jeskai Familiars RWU
They just print cards that are kinda similar to existing ones , especially at common and uncommon , there is very very rarely something new.
The same is true for mechanics. They like to roll it save and just do what they already know and repeat it over and over and over, till players get sick of it.
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Experiments come with a cost to fail or be great.
They shy away from that and just go on infinite repeat.
At least we get a handful of cards that still do something special, but more often than not these cards are over costed or just not supported enough to make any spot in constructed , but they do provide a new angle of gameplay, they have a fear from cards to be too good, especially if they cant really say how good a card will be, they simply make it more expensive and thats usually the nail in the coffin.
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The last set that really pushed the level of complexity was the Time Spiral set, which did so much combinations of mechanics and nostalgia, combined with messing around with the core mechanics of the game, its "too much" for a lot of players, which is sad.
Some players cant get enough complexity and special effects, but the audience for that is just too small, so we get the opposite, streamlined stupified mechanics that just do the same stuff over and over again in minimal different ways, its boring yes, but really only to the people that desperatly want more complexity and play the game every week, people that have longer breaks or skip entire sets will not immediatly recognize that a mechanic is just a repeat, as they didnt play at that time.
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Its a real issue, but it also simply not the way they make sets right now and probably wont in the future.
At least there are Cubes. Simply build a cube with cards and mechanics you enjoy and play with people that do the same, its the only really way out to get what you want.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
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None of my decks are centered on +1/+1 counter strategy, so I'm not bored with that.
Mtg is cyclical in my life... I might get tired and quit temporarily, but always come back to play again.
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Nothing stated can be more factual than this.
Spirits
Funny thing is, it was years later that I realized buyback (which of course existed before kicker) was...another form of kicker.
What's not kicker is split card, like entwine is basically a split card with the same mana cost and you can fuse them for just a little bit moar than their mana cost, e.g. Tooth and Nail as a split card would look like:
Tooth 5GG
Sorcery
Search your library for up to two creature cards and put them in your hand.
//
Nail 5GG
Sorcery
Put two creature cards from your hand on the battlefield.
Yoke 7GG (You may cast both halves of this spell by paying its yoke cost.)
The other one is flashback. Unearth, scavenge, embalm/eternalize (another "same mechanic, different name" situation like persist/undying), and aftermath are all just variants on flashback.
And one could argue that metalcraft, landfall (on a spell), morbid, raid, spell mastery, and delirium (those last two even more than the others) are all variants on threshold.
One could also argue convoke and improvise are variants on affinity. And constellation is a variant on landfall.
Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course. Many of these mechanics are popular for a reason. We now have afterlife, which makes Doomed Traveler a keyword.
On phasing:
Then there was Delve which created monsters like Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time and even the not-busted ones are still very good and playable.
And not that long ago there was Energy.
It's easy to say they should be more creative but the thing is the crying will be even louder if they mess it up. And that's always a risk when making a mechanic that does something that has never been done before.
Tooth and Kicked Nail 5GG
Sorcery
Kicker 2
Choose one or choose both if Tooth and Kicked Nail was kicked:
That doesn't even have any cases making it slightly different from Entwine (like for example Devour versus Kicker-as-Devour). This would be functionally identical to actual T&N.
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I would go and argue that these mechanics are EXACTLY right, as they are powerful enough to break into constructed.
And lets face it, every card that sees play in modern is in some way, shape or form, a "busted" card or downright a mistake as its just too pushed.
Self-mill as a strategy works thanks to Dredge, so that is in general a good thing, as its an entirely different form of playing the game, which enriches the game.
Storm is a mechanic that requires a lot of setup to work, unless you pair it with rituals and cards that ramp into it for the single big turn.
In general, storm is also a great mechanic, at the bunch of cards produced entire NEW decks that would not work before.
Again, it enriched the game with an entirely different form of playing the game.
These mechanics are dangerous as they do something so different and they require different answers, as they dont follow a mindboggling stupid way of playing creatures and attacking, thats just an tiny aspect of magic and what it can do.
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Cards with "kicker" variants are just a bit more flexible, if one mode is good, the kicker bonus is just the cherry on top.
Cards with "flashback" variants are somewhat inherent 2-for-1 spells, they are pretty much good from the get go.
Cost-reduction mechanics are dangerous as they become busted the moment they are abused the most, or too easy to abuse.
Outside of that, mechanics that do something truly new can very easily produce entirely new decks that attack an angle the game did not have before, and by that chances are that the deck has no real good "counter" cards.
But the game becomes so much better if you have these mechanics and give players new decks to explore, instead of repeating the same stuff over and over again in tiny variations.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
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Emblems: Lets have some mythics or rares that can generate these and some cards then that can interact with them.
Energy: Again, lets have some different ways to use these and have ways of draining or destroying an opponents.
Counters other than +1/+1: How about a +2/+2 counter? How about a counter that gives deathtouch, haste, doublestrike, etc. And again a way to move these around or remove them.
Paying Life, Paying Turns, Paying Counters or Paying Phases
Leyline effects
Token Enchantments
Yes all of these add complexity. But its a complex game anyway. If not we can expect more and more variations on +1/+1 counters and token creatures.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
And it was the most complex block they ever did.
They wont do that anymore, the ordinary player is simply overwhelmed by this.
Its in contrast to what players enjoy that are more engraved into the game and stick with it longer, but its the pill to swallow.
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In non-standard product they are more into trying more complexity out.
Even the Un-Sets add more complexity and Draft-Sets did cards that do more than what they would do for standard.
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Simply put, any set that will be standard-legal is doomed to be as trivial as possible.
They just wont do anything complex anymore, that train went off quite some time ago.
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I agree, they are anti-complexity right now. But the OP wanted ideas so I gave them.
Enfranchised players will become overly bored at some point if they continue the status quo. Maybe they should go back to Basic, Advanced and Expert level formats or something of the sort to get some of this stuff in besides just Un Sets and Commander.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Enfranchised players might be bored of Standard, but I think they can just be satisfied with other more high-complexity formats like Commander, Cube, Legacy, and Pauper (yeah, I think even Pauper is more complex than Standard).
Corrupt Control B | Burn R | UG Turbofog UG | White Weenie W | GW Tethmos WG | BG Cycling Combo BG
Enchantress GBW | Colorless Tron C | Red Deck Wins R | UG Madness UG | Mono-G Tron G | UR Puzzlehorns UR
Rhystic Tron WU| WU Prowess WU | BR Reanimator BR | Mono-R Control R | Stompy G | Temur Tron URG
Mardu Infinite Priest WBR | 85-Card Dredge BRG | Elves GU | Boros Bully RW | Jeskai Familiars RWU
Yes, Pauper is more complex than Standard by quite a bit.
But without playable/competitive eternal constructed cards those formats will grow stale at some point as well. (Barring Bans/Unbans, downshifts of rarity) Not for a while, but eventually as those formats become "solved". I don't want complexity for complexities sake, but I would like to see it trickle in a little bit more.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I agree, and you get a cookie.
__________
Anyway, just some last thoughts on the +1/+1 counter stuff. As far as I know, among the competitive ones... the only Modern deck dedicated to using +1/+1 counters as a main strategy is Hardened Scales Affinity. So I'm not really tired or bored of +1/+1 counters in Modern.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
I think this supports the OP's point. You may like the counters, but the FORMAT/META is saying +1/+1 counters (as a main strategy) are not competitive enough for it at this point. (Outside Scales decks) When WotC churns out mechanic after mechanic with +1/+1 counters and almost none of those show up speaks volumes about the playability/competitiveness of that mechanic. Modern will only use them if they are "good enough".
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Ok, I know fun is subjective.. but I don't feel the need to rant about +1/+1 counters because it does not currently affect the way I enjoy magic.
For example, last time I played against a Grixis Shadow, Elves, and a homebrew Trophy Mage deck with equip and goyf. After the last game is over walking home with friends.. would I be ranting or feeling negative about the lack of a +1/+1 counter deck in the store? Of course not.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
At the end of the day, I eventually realized the only reason I got remotely 'upset' over any of this was becuase I was spending way too much time/money obssessing over this game. Life changes made that less possible and now these things don't really bother me anymore. (Way happier by the way.)
Don't get too wrapped up in this game. It doesn't really matter that much to be honest. Keep it in perspective. Really---who cares?
That being said, yes, they do lean heavily on +1/+1 counters. It's because there is no obviously easier (and equally simple to "grok") method of showing incremental growth on a card in play other than to use simple 'counters'. Since it is (increasily so) primarly a game decided by creature combat, it's really a pretty obvious thing we would be getting some +1/+1 counter theme in every set.
MY biggest gripe about this topic is the endless creation of NEW keywords that are basically just twists on prior mechanics that essentially do the same thing, but they rename them purely for flavor/world-building concerns for STANDARD. The problem for the rest of us not playing Standard (virtually 95% of Magic players worldwide) don't just play standard so we have remember all this stupid nonsense and try to keep it straight at casual tables. I play with a (former) L2. He is the smartest guy I know and even HE has a hard time keeping all the different +1/+1 counter mechanics straight. Again, to be clear: His issue isn't understanding how they work, the real challenge is keeping them all straight in his head.
They rail against complexity at the card level but they are total ******* morons about this at the GAME level.
That's all I have to say on this.
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