That is kind of amazing. I was just crafting a peasant masters set of my own.
I kind of like the approach taken here as many of the cards seem pretty fun and that it could successfully drive down the cost of many common/uncommon staples (especially if it is packing goodies like three visits, goblin lore, and oubliette).
At the end of the day, however, I don't think that the lower cost would meaningfully increase how much the set is played or opened as the low price merely offsets the lack of super-exciting reprints (and the hype that comes with them). After all, there is less incentive for obsessive whales to buy cases of boxes in search of key mythics when the real stars are the commons/uncommons.
How does "Penny Masters" tackle the problem of high entry for Legacy, Modern, Commander, and Pauper when the current business model is unsustainable long-term for selling physical loot boxes to minors where it would be considered gambling otherwise? Magic and other Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games will eventually have to adapt to the Living Card Game business model in order to avoid the legal ramifications of selling physical loot boxes even If they choose not to publicly acknowledge the Secondary Market value of their own products being circulated.
Counterfeiting Reserve List cards is one way to pressure Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro into publicly acknowledging the Secondary Market value of those cards because they're either forced to break their promise with collectors or cave in to the players who are wanting to play with these cards that could potentially put them out of business regardless If Wizards of the Coast is able to make enough revenue off of Reserve List cards to buy themselves out of their partnership with Hasbro.
So no I don't think "Penny Masters" is a viable solution to the current distribution model of Masters sets without crashing the market.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I'd buy it but it also needs staples at the Uncommon and Commons slots. Forget Draft and just load it up with staples and playables. I don't care if the prices crash of those cards included. Prices need to come down.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
How does "Penny Masters" tackle the problem of high entry for Legacy, Modern, Commander
That is not a problem for WOTC.
High entry to Standard is a problem for them.
High entry to Legacy (and vintage) helps their model, forcing people into fewer formats, no matter how good older formats are.
High entry to Modern is an opportunity for them, keeping people in Standard for a long time whilst they build up their cards and fiscal power and giving them a non rotating format to aspire to; when then they do eventually make the jump guess who is holding out their hand to sell overpriced lottery tickets- ideas such as masters sets-? Yep WOTC.
There is no high entry to Commander as the vast majority people proxy, comp EDH is a tiny fraction of EDH, most LGS have tables full of half finished EDH decks- but even if this were not the case commander sells Standard packs where otherwise unplayable chaff becomes someones' idea of a commander deck.
In short problems for players wanting cards WOTC don't print enough of is not a problem for WOTC, it is part of their model.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
In short problems for players wanting cards WOTC don't print enough of is not a problem for WOTC, it is part of their model.
I agree but the next gen counterfeits are looking better and better to some players on a daily basis. How does that make WotC any money?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
In short problems for players wanting cards WOTC don't print enough of is not a problem for WOTC, it is part of their model.
I agree but the next gen counterfeits are looking better and better to some players on a daily basis. How does that make WotC any money?
A better question and the one that Wizards actually asks themselves is "how does this lose us money?"
People claim that better and better counterfeits will somehow force wizard's hand on the whole modern and legacy issue. But it won't. Wizards main source of revenue has been and will always be standard, more specifically the last year of most recently released sets. I'm not incredibly well versed in the creation of counterfeits but it seems unlikely that they will eat into Wizards profits enough for them to take more drastic steps.
In short problems for players wanting cards WOTC don't print enough of is not a problem for WOTC, it is part of their model.
I agree but the next gen counterfeits are looking better and better to some players on a daily basis. How does that make WotC any money?
A better question and the one that Wizards actually asks themselves is "how does this lose us money?"
People claim that better and better counterfeits will somehow force wizard's hand on the whole modern and legacy issue. But it won't. Wizards main source of revenue has been and will always be standard, more specifically the last year of most recently released sets. I'm not incredibly well versed in the creation of counterfeits but it seems unlikely that they will eat into Wizards profits enough for them to take more drastic steps.
What happens when the counterfeiters get fast enough to start printing key cards in Standard decks? They are pretty much limiting themselves to Legacy and Modern for now. It won't stay that way. I think Wizards answer to that is Arena. Whether or not WotC can make as much or more in digital only vs. digital and paper is yet to be seen. My instinct is no they won't even if they get all formats up on Arena. Counterfeiting won't force their hand, but it does contribute to an eventual downfall.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Whether or not WotC can make as much or more in digital only vs. digital and paper is yet to be seen.
Obviously they weren't making as much with MTGO vs. Paper Magic which is why WotC hired a former Microsoft intern as their CEO to ensure that Arena becomes a success. Not like they need to compete against Hearthstone anyway when Blizzard Entertainment is on the verge of bankruptcy since they're owned by Activision.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Whether or not WotC can make as much or more in digital only vs. digital and paper is yet to be seen.
Obviously they weren't making as much with MTGO vs. Paper Magic which is why WotC hired a former Microsoft intern as their CEO to ensure that Arena becomes a success. Not like they need to compete against Hearthstone anyway when Blizzard Entertainment is on the verge of bankruptcy since they're owned by Activision.
Yes it was obvious but that wasn't my point at all. The point was what makes WotC more money? Digital only versus Digital with Paper. Its my view that Magic will die much quicker if they go to a digital only format versus digital AND paper.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Yes it was obvious but that wasn't my point at all. The point was what makes WotC more money? Digital only versus Digital with Paper. Its my view that Magic will die much quicker if they go to a digital only format versus digital AND paper.
True but since MTGO never really replaced Paper Magic in terms of profits for WotC, the same can probably be said for Arena as well. The only reason why there's still demand for Paper Magic is due to an older demographic that predates the social media boom.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Yes it was obvious but that wasn't my point at all. The point was what makes WotC more money? Digital only versus Digital with Paper. Its my view that Magic will die much quicker if they go to a digital only format versus digital AND paper.
True but since MTGO never really replaced Paper Magic in terms of profits for WotC, the same can probably be said for Arena as well. The only reason why there's still demand for Paper Magic is due to an older demographic that predates the social media boom.
Yes and that is a demographic (my demographic "Gen-X" and older Millenials) that tends to have a lot more disposable income than younger generations and higher brand/product loyalty as well. Those can't be dismissed if you ask me. I'm not anti-digital, I'm anti-digital ONLY.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
The only people who ever talk about magic going digital only are those who in the same breath say it is the way to kill magic. So why is it talked about like its some intended/stated goal? I don't believe that fakes will ever become the necessary combination of good, fast and cheap enough to truly encroach on standard. Standard will always be the driving force of Wizards profits so unless it really becomes unprofitable to print physical cards they will continue the print real cards. If it does become unprofitable it will be because the game is already dying not the other way around.
The only people who ever talk about magic going digital only are those who in the same breath say it is the way to kill magic. So why is it talked about like its some intended/stated goal? I don't believe that fakes will ever become the necessary combination of good, fast and cheap enough to truly encroach on standard. Standard will always be the driving force of Wizards profits so unless it really becomes unprofitable to print physical cards they will continue the print real cards. If it does become unprofitable it will be because the game is already dying not the other way around.
The only way I see it becoming unprofitable is due to how the "pay to win" or "pay to play" aspect has made it more about who has the most disposable income instead of raw skill. It's one of the reasons why Digital Card Games and Living Card Games have seen an uptick in popularity because they're proper distribution models not reliant on a Secondary Market. Most of the time the Secondary Market tends to over saturate itself causing everything but select cards that are artificially inflated in price to be worthless, isn't saturating the market enough creating average highs by making pay to entry expensive, or horribly undercuts the LGS to the point where they can no longer compete and can't sell product without going even or taking a hit.
I think Magic and other Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games are going to have to change their business model before too long in order to avoid becoming an illegal business practice to sell physical loot boxes to minors. They pretty much have to If they want to survive against the rise of Digital Card Games and Living Card Games though they can't just abandon their current existing card pool and not expect a PR backlash that they're completely unable to recover from. Bushiroad did something similar with Cardfight!! Vanguard (mostly due to power creep at the time) as well as Fantasy Flight Games with the Vs. System LCG and those games haven't been the same since.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
What do you guys think? Any potential in it?
https://bit.ly/2QCsC5N
I kind of like the approach taken here as many of the cards seem pretty fun and that it could successfully drive down the cost of many common/uncommon staples (especially if it is packing goodies like three visits, goblin lore, and oubliette).
At the end of the day, however, I don't think that the lower cost would meaningfully increase how much the set is played or opened as the low price merely offsets the lack of super-exciting reprints (and the hype that comes with them). After all, there is less incentive for obsessive whales to buy cases of boxes in search of key mythics when the real stars are the commons/uncommons.
Counterfeiting Reserve List cards is one way to pressure Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro into publicly acknowledging the Secondary Market value of those cards because they're either forced to break their promise with collectors or cave in to the players who are wanting to play with these cards that could potentially put them out of business regardless If Wizards of the Coast is able to make enough revenue off of Reserve List cards to buy themselves out of their partnership with Hasbro.
So no I don't think "Penny Masters" is a viable solution to the current distribution model of Masters sets without crashing the market.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I'd rather this Penny Masters set just be a fixed set of useful cards like a Deckbuilder's Toolkit than more packs.
That is not a problem for WOTC.
High entry to Standard is a problem for them.
High entry to Legacy (and vintage) helps their model, forcing people into fewer formats, no matter how good older formats are.
High entry to Modern is an opportunity for them, keeping people in Standard for a long time whilst they build up their cards and fiscal power and giving them a non rotating format to aspire to; when then they do eventually make the jump guess who is holding out their hand to sell overpriced lottery tickets- ideas such as masters sets-? Yep WOTC.
There is no high entry to Commander as the vast majority people proxy, comp EDH is a tiny fraction of EDH, most LGS have tables full of half finished EDH decks- but even if this were not the case commander sells Standard packs where otherwise unplayable chaff becomes someones' idea of a commander deck.
In short problems for players wanting cards WOTC don't print enough of is not a problem for WOTC, it is part of their model.
I agree but the next gen counterfeits are looking better and better to some players on a daily basis. How does that make WotC any money?
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
People claim that better and better counterfeits will somehow force wizard's hand on the whole modern and legacy issue. But it won't. Wizards main source of revenue has been and will always be standard, more specifically the last year of most recently released sets. I'm not incredibly well versed in the creation of counterfeits but it seems unlikely that they will eat into Wizards profits enough for them to take more drastic steps.
What happens when the counterfeiters get fast enough to start printing key cards in Standard decks? They are pretty much limiting themselves to Legacy and Modern for now. It won't stay that way. I think Wizards answer to that is Arena. Whether or not WotC can make as much or more in digital only vs. digital and paper is yet to be seen. My instinct is no they won't even if they get all formats up on Arena. Counterfeiting won't force their hand, but it does contribute to an eventual downfall.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Yes it was obvious but that wasn't my point at all. The point was what makes WotC more money? Digital only versus Digital with Paper. Its my view that Magic will die much quicker if they go to a digital only format versus digital AND paper.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Yes and that is a demographic (my demographic "Gen-X" and older Millenials) that tends to have a lot more disposable income than younger generations and higher brand/product loyalty as well. Those can't be dismissed if you ask me. I'm not anti-digital, I'm anti-digital ONLY.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I think Magic and other Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games are going to have to change their business model before too long in order to avoid becoming an illegal business practice to sell physical loot boxes to minors. They pretty much have to If they want to survive against the rise of Digital Card Games and Living Card Games though they can't just abandon their current existing card pool and not expect a PR backlash that they're completely unable to recover from. Bushiroad did something similar with Cardfight!! Vanguard (mostly due to power creep at the time) as well as Fantasy Flight Games with the Vs. System LCG and those games haven't been the same since.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I think a cardshop could randomly pack 30 commons and sell it for a bulk price of 10 cents each. 3 dollars.