So I've made threads in the past trying to ascertain why Standard, my favorite format, has been dying these past few years. I've come up with a few (what I think anyway) valid reasons as to why this is happening and what the future may hold for the game in its paper form (and why it may go away):
MTG Online and MTG Arena
MTG Online has been around for a while now. Cards are cheaper to buy here than in paper form (because Wizards doesn't have to worry about card stock, ink, and shipping costs). Magic players, many of which who are somewhat awkward/anti-social IRL, have even less incentive to attend physical tournaments. Instead, they can play the game in the comfort of their home, and have little to no interaction with other people as they see fit. Aside from playing the game, that is. MTG Arena is the same deal, BUT (as of right now) it exclusively supports the Standard format. Which, AGAIN, gives Standard players less reasons to play at stores/tournaments.
Paper Card Quality has Deteriorated
There have already been multiple threads on Mtgsalvation alone that have gone into depth as to how/why this has happened. As a paper player, I personally feel like I'm playing with an inferior product. But I also see this as a sign that Wizards believes gamers won't care about this unless they're collectors (I am not one of these, I buy in for the game). It's a cost-cutting move that makes them more money in the long run, players be damned. This makes it harder for players who invest in the paper game to preserve the quality of cards they wish to trade in with vendors/buddies because the cards are more easily damaged. I find it hard to bring myself to purchase expensive $20+ cards for this reason alone, but didn't really have a problem with this in the past.
Standard Player Turnout/Tournament Coverage
I've been told by other players that play other formats that standard is a boring format because the card pool is smaller and there's only 2-3 decks that dominate the field. This is partly true, but I think it has to do with how the format is covered, more so than anything else. A lot of tournaments these days are Team Constructed. The goal from broadcasters is to highlight each format equally, but that often isn't the case. I can't tell you guys how frustrating it's been to want to tune in a watch a good Standard match, only to see Modern and Legacy get most of the screen time. Heck, at Pro Tour 25 Anniversary Turbo Fog was getting a lot of hype and placed 5th overall. It used Nexus of Fate, a card that is currently $45+. Speculators are saying the card could get even more expensive should Turbo Fog become the dominate deck in the format. How many times did I get to see the deck work on camera? Once. One time. And this happens more often than not.
I think all of these reasons (and others I haven't mentioned because they require a serious, more adult conversation) will eventually lead to the end of paper magic in the next few years. Let me know what you guys think is the root cause of all this!
1. I would not be surprised if WOTC eventually phased out paper magic. Costs are lower and profit margin is higher by selling directly to players instead of involving multiple middle parties. Considering that WOTC also wants to branch into the e-sports atmosphere, paper magic does them little commercial good. All it will take are a few big tournaments.
2. I don't care about card stock. I don't buy these to sell them later. And trading I think has all but died as everyone just buys their cards online (why bother trading when you know exactly how much its worth? People prefer to trade a $20 card for a $20 card, may as well just spend the $20 to have both)
3. Legacy gets very little featured coverage by WOTC, so it isn't surprising that it got a lot of attention. But also, standard IS boring. Especially with rotation being once per year instead of the original plan of twice, you end up watching the same few decks competing over and over.
So yeah, it'll die soon enough. I'll actually be completely okay with that. This is just a hobby. The "community" means nothing.
Wizards doesn't give a damn about the players, they remind us of that every chance they get. The card quality, all good cards being mythics, etc. That said, I don't think they will get rid of paper Magic. they know plenty of people, myself included will never bother with online. I will play in person as much as I can, I will buy old cards on the secondary market, I will play FNM if it still exists, but if I cannot buy a physical box, for all intents and purposes to Wizards, I will have stopped playing the game.
It's also harder to get new people to play online. I saw the Toolkit years ago, it was cheap, I was vaguely curious, and it was right in front of me. I got started on an impulse buy. I don't play Fortnite or anything like that, and online games should be cheap to play. They will lose players through bad choices or just naturally, and it is hard to rope in a many new people without colorful packs on shelves. Even for those braintrusts, removing paper Magic would be a really bad idea
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
So I've made threads in the past trying to ascertain why Standard, my favorite format, has been dying these past few years. I've come up with a few (what I think anyway) valid reasons as to why this is happening and what the future may hold for the game in its paper form (and why it may go away):
How much longer will WoTC support paper Magic?
I think for the duration of Magic's existence
In response to the above quoted bold text:
My feeling for why Standard is having issues is because it is directly - and negatively - impacting Eternal formats due to WoTC's insistence that Standard be the primary source for printing cards with crossover demand in other formats. WoTC must stop doing this. WoTC must make a new future for itself where Eternal formats have an independent source of reprints - AND NEW CARDS THAT BYPASS STANDARD - that way the Eternal formats don't have to suffer the conceptual limitations and the imposed limited/draft design concepts of Standard.
Standard is currently the enemy of Eternal formats because WoTC is too lazy to separate the pittance of quality reprints we get each year into other products tailored for players who enjoy anything but Standard. WoTC needs to evolve beyond their incessant need to make Standard the focus of their profit model. They are killing their product with shortsightedness. Standard should be bypassed outright with new card printings that are in products only legal in Eternal formats. WoTC must expand the concept of format bypassing cards. Battlebond is a step in the right direction.
Paper magic will probably always be around. There will always be people who enjoy playing casually around a table.
Even long after paper magic ceases to be profitable, I can see them keeping it around because at some point it remains a
promotional or advertising tool.
Im ok with magic moving online. Now more than ever, online card games are well accepted. If Wizards wants to broach the younger generation, they're going to have to go after them on the platforms they're familiar with. Besides, an emphasis with online magic would even allow a revival of vintage and legacy without worrying about the reserve list.
It is pretty simple. Standard is dull because it is easily solved and offers little to the builder.
Financially, an area I like to think I have done well in this past decade like many older players, Std has been a treadmill and money pit for almost everyone. Older players long since abandoned it.
The biggest lies are the ones we tell ourself, and so many Standard players lie to themselves--that the format is not a money pit, that they can grind away to a pro life, that they could end up being known as a designer of decks when in reality any innovation they come up with will be ascribed to whichever pro picks up the deck and writes about it first. The first two are big ones that help perpetuate the format sales even when the format is poor.
The big, almost insurmountable issue is the desire to placate newbies, at the expense of multiple fronts on which to fight. Newbies hate landkill, handkill, taxes, and counters. So they are weak, whilst PWs and combat are all and voilà, one solved format.
Answers been too weak for the best part of a decade, muppets like Stoddard have presented utterly broken stuff such as Emrakul with a an article proclaiming how great the card is, happily fiddling away like Nero as the format explodes. What would have made Emrakul or whatever broken stuff they are banning is always the same. Answers. Killing someone's land 3 turns in a row or casting 3 successive discard spells really hurts their chances of landing a broken artifact, as does a Null Rod effect. Neither were available for that Std. Energy showed why Maro is not right for the game it would have been fine if Solemnity had cost 1 mana or it could be removed, but the same mistake from Scars block limited was made--a resource you can't interact with.
Bottom line Mtg is a paper game. It will go on being so, but Standard will never be as prominent as before, whilst the whole idea of answers being stronger will only go so far. If newbies and casuals hate something they won't push it, despite the fact that casuals in particular will never jump on the tournament scene when shops have so much EDH.
I have had no issue with card stock since Dominaria. I have Amonkhet cards that are super duper warped, even right out of the pack. This was doubly true for foil cards. My cards since Dominaria have been really straight and nice, even the foils.
Standard attendance and interest is down because Kaladesh warped Standard. Period, end of story. Standard just was not as fun as it used to be. I would also argue that Standard suffered mightily under WotC's desire to constantly push limited over constructed. I definitely think the addition of the Play Design team will help balance things out and eventually return Standard to its former glory. Having said that, it could also very well be that Standard is also suffering from an increased interest in Modern and Commander, both of which seem to be gaining a lot of steam over the last few years.
WotC will not get rid of Paper Magic any time soon, they do not have a viable vehicle to deliver online Magic to the masses. Sure WotC earns more money from Magic Online than it does from Paper Magic but no one wants to sit down and watch Magic Online. It is clunk and tired, forever trapped i nthe aestetics of the early 2000's. Arena has the potential to blow Magic up online but who knows if it will pan out. Paper Magic is a loss leader (well, not a loss since Paper Magic is still profitable but you know what I mean). Paper magic draws a lot of people into the hobby and gets them playing. Even if they migrate to online, I think most people would have started either directly or tangentially (watching people play) paper magic. In the future, streaming Magic Arena may change that but for now Paper Magic has a much deeper and wider reach.
Wizards doesn't give a damn about the players, they remind us of that every chance they get. The card quality, all good cards being mythics, etc. That said, I don't think they will get rid of paper Magic. they know plenty of people, myself included will never bother with online. I will play in person as much as I can, I will buy old cards on the secondary market, I will play FNM if it still exists, but if I cannot buy a physical box, for all intents and purposes to Wizards, I will have stopped playing the game.
The reason so many good cards are mythics is because WotC's primary goals are to appeal card shops who buy heaps of cases, rip them all open and then sell the individual cards to us, the consumers. Making ideal cards for constructed Mythic means those retailers have to crack more packs to get enough stock. Card sellers are the whales that keep paper magic afloat these days.
WotC also cares a lot more about Drafting than constructed because Drafting incentivizes players to crack way more packs than they otherwise would be willing to crack. Big, splashy cards often warp a drafting environment. WotC has to include big, bomb cards that are good for constructed (or else card sellers will not buy as much) but they also do not want those bomb cards to warp too many draft experiences. The only way to do that is to make those bomb cards rarer to crack (hence mythic rare).
How much longer will WoTC support paper Magic?[/b]
I think for the duration of Magic's existence
Yeah, I think Magic dies the day they drop paper cards, so they'll keep supporting it. I love playing with friends and my kids because it is social. If it goes all-digital, I keep playing with old cards, but I quit spending money. I'd be curious what percentage of players would drop the game if it went all digital - my guess is it would be significant.
So I've made threads in the past trying to ascertain why Standard, my favorite format, has been dying these past few years. I've come up with a few (what I think anyway) valid reasons as to why this is happening and what the future may hold for the game in its paper form (and why it may go away):
How much longer will WoTC support paper Magic?
I think for the duration of Magic's existence
That is my opinion too. And not every mtg player is anti-social who can only play alone inside the house.. many mtg players I know also attend the FNM that happen every week at the mall.. which is just 30 minute drive from my place. Or we do a get together to test each other's decks. Don't really know what's happening to standard, because I refuse to play a format with rotation. Modern and EDH are quite active here.
I've said in the past that If Wizards of the Coast stops supporting Paper/Physical Magic that it would end up setting a bad example for their Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game competitors within the Secondary Market when that's not the general consensus among consumers who still invest in Paper/Physical products. Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games will never be as popular as they once were back in the 90's and early to mid 2000's, but as long as Wizards of the Coast continues to maintain the monopoly they've had on the Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games Industry by supporting small local game stores without having to rely on one of their competitors whose communities aren't established enough to keep the business open then we're in a stable place.
The problem is that the companies behind current Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games that are still in circulation right now have no interest in being liable for maintaining the monopoly that Wizards of the Coast fostered for Magic in order to keep local game stores in business. They'd rather squeeze consumers out for all they're worth rather than actually providing a great product where short-term license agreements aren't as big of an issue when that's pretty much led to the majority of discontinued Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games over the last two decades. These companies who've been competing against Magic have relied on Wizards of the Coast for so long that they've taken for granted just how much of a burden it's become to the company they've followed.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
If they stop printing paper and move online, it is a bad thing for those invested in paper products. It won't have an immediate price reaction, but basically you would see:
1. Prices of printed cards go up (good for investors) as people realize there will be no more printed versions
2. People will be priced out of physical for eternal tournaments, so they'll switch to online, which is far cheaper and has new cards being printed as well
3. Eternal Tournaments (if they're still supported) will reach their max cap of players, and will then start to dwindle as people either move on to online, or move on with their lives, or die.
4. People will start selling physical collections to an uninterested market place.
5. Physical Prices will drop.
6. People who invested largely into magic will see prices dropping, and start flooding the market to try to reap reward.
7. Prices will keep dropping overtime. Making magic eventually affordable to edh players (lol)
If they stop printing physical, it'll be definitely a terrible move for investors in the long term (probably a period of 5 - 10 years post printing).
That may be such a long time that no one cares, or there could be the other scenario, where investors with this in mind panic and start selling off right away, and no one is willing to buy. Then the market could tank. But markets usually take time so the 5-10 year scenario may be more realistic. After all, physical cards are only as valuable as your physical playerbase, and if people are encouraged to move online so they can play with new cards, that playerbase will naturally shrink.
Would it be the death of magic? No. But there is a big enough client base who would only play physical that Wizards will justify to keep printing physical product for now. They would probably need 3-4 years in the red (outside of a recession climate, as some companies will keep it going just to see how it lives outside of a recession if they believe in it enough) to justify axing printed product.
If everyone sells off their Moats, Tabernacles, Nethervoids and Alpha Stasis for next to nowt I will be having them all.
Paper mtg will not die, too many vested interests for that to happen. Legacy et al are already capped by duals acting as bottlenecks, d n t and a few others not withstanding.
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People with belligerent signatures are trying to compensate for something....
Paper wont die. If anything an active online game that doesn't depend on the secondary market to function will allow wizards to start doing things they can't do right now. Whether they take advantage of that position and really leverage it is another question. They wouldn't just start handing out the high dollar cards like water, but they'd be free to print a lot more power more often without risking as much.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
In the end... You either have a physical card you can touch, hold, scrape junk off a grill (Spongebob reference) or a digital card that's only good as long as you keep the account active.
I had a World of War craft account 10 years ago, I had high level characters and epic weapons too, I had not seen that account for 9 years. On the other hand, I have magic cards since 1996. I had not looked at my cards almost all of 2017 and up to a few weeks ago... and I still have my cards.
In the end... You either have a physical card you can touch, hold, scrape junk off a grill (Spongebob reference) or a digital card that's only good as long as you keep the account active.
I had a World of War craft account 10 years ago, I had high level characters and epic weapons too, I had not seen that account for 9 years. On the other hand, I have magic cards since 1996. I had not looked at my cards almost all of 2017 and up to a few weeks ago... and I still have my cards.
I don't see how any virtual game can beat that!
But World of Warcraft is still around. If you sign in, you can play with your characters.
The time when this becomes applicable is when a digital game dies and you lose access to your character.
In the end... You either have a physical card you can touch, hold, scrape junk off a grill (Spongebob reference) or a digital card that's only good as long as you keep the account active.
I had a World of War craft account 10 years ago, I had high level characters and epic weapons too, I had not seen that account for 9 years. On the other hand, I have magic cards since 1996. I had not looked at my cards almost all of 2017 and up to a few weeks ago... and I still have my cards.
I don't see how any virtual game can beat that!
But World of Warcraft is still around. If you sign in, you can play with your characters.
The time when this becomes applicable is when a digital game dies and you lose access to your character.
Sure if I want to play a monthly fee, and I only have fun with those characters as long as I keep paying the monthly fee...
In the end... You either have a physical card you can touch, hold, scrape junk off a grill (Spongebob reference) or a digital card that's only good as long as you keep the account active.
I had a World of War craft account 10 years ago, I had high level characters and epic weapons too, I had not seen that account for 9 years. On the other hand, I have magic cards since 1996. I had not looked at my cards almost all of 2017 and up to a few weeks ago... and I still have my cards.
I don't see how any virtual game can beat that!
But World of Warcraft is still around. If you sign in, you can play with your characters.
The time when this becomes applicable is when a digital game dies and you lose access to your character.
Sure if I want to play a monthly fee, and I only have fun with those characters as long as I keep paying the monthly fee...
Well, you can farm gold and sell it for game time now, so I mean you don't "need" to pay a subscription to play.
The subscription also pays for a dynamically updated and hot fixed game, which evolves and grows over time. If you never invest in Magic Cards again (the equivalent of not paying for a subscription), then you will only every be able to play with what you have. Eventually, that will get boring (hence the need/desire to pay for more content (i.e. new cards)).
In the end... You either have a physical card you can touch, hold, scrape junk off a grill (Spongebob reference) or a digital card that's only good as long as you keep the account active.
I had a World of War craft account 10 years ago, I had high level characters and epic weapons too, I had not seen that account for 9 years. On the other hand, I have magic cards since 1996. I had not looked at my cards almost all of 2017 and up to a few weeks ago... and I still have my cards.
I don't see how any virtual game can beat that!
But World of Warcraft is still around. If you sign in, you can play with your characters.
The time when this becomes applicable is when a digital game dies and you lose access to your character.
Sure if I want to play a monthly fee, and I only have fun with those characters as long as I keep paying the monthly fee...
Well, you can farm gold and sell it for game time now, so I mean you don't "need" to pay a subscription to play.
The subscription also pays for a dynamically updated and hot fixed game, which evolves and grows over time. If you never invest in Magic Cards again (the equivalent of not paying for a subscription), then you will only every be able to play with what you have. Eventually, that will get boring (hence the need/desire to pay for more content (i.e. new cards)).
The point is that I cannot access the program anytime I like. Same goes with any online game. Paper magic is physical material and as long as I own the cards I have full access to the cards.
In the end... You either have a physical card you can touch, hold, scrape junk off a grill (Spongebob reference) or a digital card that's only good as long as you keep the account active.
I had a World of War craft account 10 years ago, I had high level characters and epic weapons too, I had not seen that account for 9 years. On the other hand, I have magic cards since 1996. I had not looked at my cards almost all of 2017 and up to a few weeks ago... and I still have my cards.
I don't see how any virtual game can beat that!
But World of Warcraft is still around. If you sign in, you can play with your characters.
The time when this becomes applicable is when a digital game dies and you lose access to your character.
Sure if I want to play a monthly fee, and I only have fun with those characters as long as I keep paying the monthly fee...
Well, you can farm gold and sell it for game time now, so I mean you don't "need" to pay a subscription to play.
The subscription also pays for a dynamically updated and hot fixed game, which evolves and grows over time. If you never invest in Magic Cards again (the equivalent of not paying for a subscription), then you will only every be able to play with what you have. Eventually, that will get boring (hence the need/desire to pay for more content (i.e. new cards)).
The point is that I cannot access the program anytime I like. Same goes with any online game. Paper magic is physical material and as long as I own the cards I have full access to the cards.
Exactly what happened to my Ragnarok Online account. Played ragnarok online for more than 5 years, spent time and some real money amassing powerful armour and weapons. When the servers were shut down, all my investement of time and money into that online game are now gone with no hope of return.
With paper mtg cards.. I can still play with people who have physical cards if ever WoTC goes bankrupt some years from now.
But World of Warcraft is still around. If you sign in, you can play with your characters.
The time when this becomes applicable is when a digital game dies and you lose access to your character.
Sure if I want to play a monthly fee, and I only have fun with those characters as long as I keep paying the monthly fee...
Well, you can farm gold and sell it for game time now, so I mean you don't "need" to pay a subscription to play.
The subscription also pays for a dynamically updated and hot fixed game, which evolves and grows over time. If you never invest in Magic Cards again (the equivalent of not paying for a subscription), then you will only every be able to play with what you have. Eventually, that will get boring (hence the need/desire to pay for more content (i.e. new cards)).
The point is that I cannot access the program anytime I like. Same goes with any online game. Paper magic is physical material and as long as I own the cards I have full access to the cards.
Exactly what happened to my Ragnarok Online account. Played ragnarok online for more than 5 years, spent time and some real money amassing powerful armour and weapons. When the servers were shut down, all my investement of time and money into that online game are now gone with no hope of return.
With paper mtg cards.. I can still play with people who have physical cards if ever WoTC goes bankrupt some years from now.
And this is why paper is better than online magic...
I think wotc is busy reassessing the format support going forward. They originally got behind modern because it added value to standard. The fallout of masters sets actually hurt their brand and I doubt they will goback to masters sets. Or support the format in the same way.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I think wotc is busy reassessing the format support going forward. They originally got behind modern because it added value to standard. The fallout of masters sets actually hurt their brand and I doubt they will goback to masters sets. Or support the format in the same way.
Let's not be complacent, if you have information that leads you to believe that WoTC is currently making considerations for format support moving forward - then right now is the time to be loud with our suggestions. Maybe I should duplicate and tailor a thread I have going about format bypassing cards and drop it here in the General forum... I'm trying to do my part!
Folks, please message some of your favorite Magic youtubers and get them to put a spotlight on format bypassing cards.. Please
You are right and you are wrong. Eventually, the game will become more digital. I don't know what the breakdown is now, but I imagine that online play probably accounts for less than 10% of MtG's profit. As far as competitive play goes, I would assume it is closer to 50%, but I really have no idea. So yes, in a sense, I could imagine competitive play taking part almost entirely online. But the majority of people playing magic are playing casually - mostly friends buying cards, drafting, playing commander, etc. There are also collectors. I know a few people who collect every set, and I am sure there are many collectors who don't even play. The cost of paper magic could go up, but as long as they are making new sets they will have incentive to sell paper cards.
Paper Card Quality has Deteriorated
I like the new card feel, but I dislike the amount of smudging. Hopefully the are working on a compromise. This isn't about finding a cheaper way to print cards.
Standard Player Turnout/Tournament Coverage
When I started playing at a LGS, there were about 20 people per night playing standard. Less than 5 of those people still play it. Some got into eternal formats. But most stopped playing because their decks rotated and hundreds of dollars of invested money became worthless. To get a new deck was out of their budgets.
For years, there were 3 Standard/limited PTs and one Modern/Limited PT per year. Then, to push Standard even more, they dropped Modern from the PT. Recently, they re-evaluated this because they realized that people are much more motivated to watch Eternal PTs vs Standard.
Also, they keep making Masters sets... they want to give people incentive to buy into eternal formats. Eternal formats have a lot more "customer" retention. Standard is where people get bummed out and stop playing because their 500$ investment is now worth 42.11$.
This is also why the next three sets in Ravnica will bring a lot of people back to Standard. Shocklands are money, and always will be. People will buy into this mana base, despite its price, because they can be confident it will be worth something in 2 years.
MTG Online and MTG Arena
MTG Online has been around for a while now. Cards are cheaper to buy here than in paper form (because Wizards doesn't have to worry about card stock, ink, and shipping costs). Magic players, many of which who are somewhat awkward/anti-social IRL, have even less incentive to attend physical tournaments. Instead, they can play the game in the comfort of their home, and have little to no interaction with other people as they see fit. Aside from playing the game, that is. MTG Arena is the same deal, BUT (as of right now) it exclusively supports the Standard format. Which, AGAIN, gives Standard players less reasons to play at stores/tournaments.
Paper Card Quality has Deteriorated
There have already been multiple threads on Mtgsalvation alone that have gone into depth as to how/why this has happened. As a paper player, I personally feel like I'm playing with an inferior product. But I also see this as a sign that Wizards believes gamers won't care about this unless they're collectors (I am not one of these, I buy in for the game). It's a cost-cutting move that makes them more money in the long run, players be damned. This makes it harder for players who invest in the paper game to preserve the quality of cards they wish to trade in with vendors/buddies because the cards are more easily damaged. I find it hard to bring myself to purchase expensive $20+ cards for this reason alone, but didn't really have a problem with this in the past.
Standard Player Turnout/Tournament Coverage
I've been told by other players that play other formats that standard is a boring format because the card pool is smaller and there's only 2-3 decks that dominate the field. This is partly true, but I think it has to do with how the format is covered, more so than anything else. A lot of tournaments these days are Team Constructed. The goal from broadcasters is to highlight each format equally, but that often isn't the case. I can't tell you guys how frustrating it's been to want to tune in a watch a good Standard match, only to see Modern and Legacy get most of the screen time. Heck, at Pro Tour 25 Anniversary Turbo Fog was getting a lot of hype and placed 5th overall. It used Nexus of Fate, a card that is currently $45+. Speculators are saying the card could get even more expensive should Turbo Fog become the dominate deck in the format. How many times did I get to see the deck work on camera? Once. One time. And this happens more often than not.
I think all of these reasons (and others I haven't mentioned because they require a serious, more adult conversation) will eventually lead to the end of paper magic in the next few years. Let me know what you guys think is the root cause of all this!
1. I would not be surprised if WOTC eventually phased out paper magic. Costs are lower and profit margin is higher by selling directly to players instead of involving multiple middle parties. Considering that WOTC also wants to branch into the e-sports atmosphere, paper magic does them little commercial good. All it will take are a few big tournaments.
2. I don't care about card stock. I don't buy these to sell them later. And trading I think has all but died as everyone just buys their cards online (why bother trading when you know exactly how much its worth? People prefer to trade a $20 card for a $20 card, may as well just spend the $20 to have both)
3. Legacy gets very little featured coverage by WOTC, so it isn't surprising that it got a lot of attention. But also, standard IS boring. Especially with rotation being once per year instead of the original plan of twice, you end up watching the same few decks competing over and over.
So yeah, it'll die soon enough. I'll actually be completely okay with that. This is just a hobby. The "community" means nothing.
It's also harder to get new people to play online. I saw the Toolkit years ago, it was cheap, I was vaguely curious, and it was right in front of me. I got started on an impulse buy. I don't play Fortnite or anything like that, and online games should be cheap to play. They will lose players through bad choices or just naturally, and it is hard to rope in a many new people without colorful packs on shelves. Even for those braintrusts, removing paper Magic would be a really bad idea
How much longer will WoTC support paper Magic?
I think for the duration of Magic's existence
In response to the above quoted bold text:
My feeling for why Standard is having issues is because it is directly - and negatively - impacting Eternal formats due to WoTC's insistence that Standard be the primary source for printing cards with crossover demand in other formats. WoTC must stop doing this. WoTC must make a new future for itself where Eternal formats have an independent source of reprints - AND NEW CARDS THAT BYPASS STANDARD - that way the Eternal formats don't have to suffer the conceptual limitations and the imposed limited/draft design concepts of Standard.
Standard is currently the enemy of Eternal formats because WoTC is too lazy to separate the pittance of quality reprints we get each year into other products tailored for players who enjoy anything but Standard. WoTC needs to evolve beyond their incessant need to make Standard the focus of their profit model. They are killing their product with shortsightedness. Standard should be bypassed outright with new card printings that are in products only legal in Eternal formats. WoTC must expand the concept of format bypassing cards. Battlebond is a step in the right direction.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334931-what-is-the-most-pimp-card-deck-youve-seen-or?comment=5361
Commander
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage Grenades! EDHGR
UWSygg's Defense, EDH - Voltron & ControlWU
BUGMimeoplasm EDH ft. Ifnir Cycling-discard comboBUG
WBTeysa, Connoisseur of CullingBW
BWSelenia & Recruiter of the Guard suicice combo EDHWB
UBRWGO-Kagachi - 5 Color Enchantments - EDHUBRWG
Even long after paper magic ceases to be profitable, I can see them keeping it around because at some point it remains a
promotional or advertising tool.
Im ok with magic moving online. Now more than ever, online card games are well accepted. If Wizards wants to broach the younger generation, they're going to have to go after them on the platforms they're familiar with. Besides, an emphasis with online magic would even allow a revival of vintage and legacy without worrying about the reserve list.
Financially, an area I like to think I have done well in this past decade like many older players, Std has been a treadmill and money pit for almost everyone. Older players long since abandoned it.
The biggest lies are the ones we tell ourself, and so many Standard players lie to themselves--that the format is not a money pit, that they can grind away to a pro life, that they could end up being known as a designer of decks when in reality any innovation they come up with will be ascribed to whichever pro picks up the deck and writes about it first. The first two are big ones that help perpetuate the format sales even when the format is poor.
The big, almost insurmountable issue is the desire to placate newbies, at the expense of multiple fronts on which to fight. Newbies hate landkill, handkill, taxes, and counters. So they are weak, whilst PWs and combat are all and voilà, one solved format.
Answers been too weak for the best part of a decade, muppets like Stoddard have presented utterly broken stuff such as Emrakul with a an article proclaiming how great the card is, happily fiddling away like Nero as the format explodes. What would have made Emrakul or whatever broken stuff they are banning is always the same. Answers. Killing someone's land 3 turns in a row or casting 3 successive discard spells really hurts their chances of landing a broken artifact, as does a Null Rod effect. Neither were available for that Std. Energy showed why Maro is not right for the game it would have been fine if Solemnity had cost 1 mana or it could be removed, but the same mistake from Scars block limited was made--a resource you can't interact with.
Bottom line Mtg is a paper game. It will go on being so, but Standard will never be as prominent as before, whilst the whole idea of answers being stronger will only go so far. If newbies and casuals hate something they won't push it, despite the fact that casuals in particular will never jump on the tournament scene when shops have so much EDH.
Standard attendance and interest is down because Kaladesh warped Standard. Period, end of story. Standard just was not as fun as it used to be. I would also argue that Standard suffered mightily under WotC's desire to constantly push limited over constructed. I definitely think the addition of the Play Design team will help balance things out and eventually return Standard to its former glory. Having said that, it could also very well be that Standard is also suffering from an increased interest in Modern and Commander, both of which seem to be gaining a lot of steam over the last few years.
WotC will not get rid of Paper Magic any time soon, they do not have a viable vehicle to deliver online Magic to the masses. Sure WotC earns more money from Magic Online than it does from Paper Magic but no one wants to sit down and watch Magic Online. It is clunk and tired, forever trapped i nthe aestetics of the early 2000's. Arena has the potential to blow Magic up online but who knows if it will pan out. Paper Magic is a loss leader (well, not a loss since Paper Magic is still profitable but you know what I mean). Paper magic draws a lot of people into the hobby and gets them playing. Even if they migrate to online, I think most people would have started either directly or tangentially (watching people play) paper magic. In the future, streaming Magic Arena may change that but for now Paper Magic has a much deeper and wider reach.
The reason so many good cards are mythics is because WotC's primary goals are to appeal card shops who buy heaps of cases, rip them all open and then sell the individual cards to us, the consumers. Making ideal cards for constructed Mythic means those retailers have to crack more packs to get enough stock. Card sellers are the whales that keep paper magic afloat these days.
WotC also cares a lot more about Drafting than constructed because Drafting incentivizes players to crack way more packs than they otherwise would be willing to crack. Big, splashy cards often warp a drafting environment. WotC has to include big, bomb cards that are good for constructed (or else card sellers will not buy as much) but they also do not want those bomb cards to warp too many draft experiences. The only way to do that is to make those bomb cards rarer to crack (hence mythic rare).
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
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That is my opinion too. And not every mtg player is anti-social who can only play alone inside the house.. many mtg players I know also attend the FNM that happen every week at the mall.. which is just 30 minute drive from my place. Or we do a get together to test each other's decks. Don't really know what's happening to standard, because I refuse to play a format with rotation. Modern and EDH are quite active here.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
The problem is that the companies behind current Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games that are still in circulation right now have no interest in being liable for maintaining the monopoly that Wizards of the Coast fostered for Magic in order to keep local game stores in business. They'd rather squeeze consumers out for all they're worth rather than actually providing a great product where short-term license agreements aren't as big of an issue when that's pretty much led to the majority of discontinued Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games over the last two decades. These companies who've been competing against Magic have relied on Wizards of the Coast for so long that they've taken for granted just how much of a burden it's become to the company they've followed.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
1. Prices of printed cards go up (good for investors) as people realize there will be no more printed versions
2. People will be priced out of physical for eternal tournaments, so they'll switch to online, which is far cheaper and has new cards being printed as well
3. Eternal Tournaments (if they're still supported) will reach their max cap of players, and will then start to dwindle as people either move on to online, or move on with their lives, or die.
4. People will start selling physical collections to an uninterested market place.
5. Physical Prices will drop.
6. People who invested largely into magic will see prices dropping, and start flooding the market to try to reap reward.
7. Prices will keep dropping overtime. Making magic eventually affordable to edh players (lol)
If they stop printing physical, it'll be definitely a terrible move for investors in the long term (probably a period of 5 - 10 years post printing).
That may be such a long time that no one cares, or there could be the other scenario, where investors with this in mind panic and start selling off right away, and no one is willing to buy. Then the market could tank. But markets usually take time so the 5-10 year scenario may be more realistic. After all, physical cards are only as valuable as your physical playerbase, and if people are encouraged to move online so they can play with new cards, that playerbase will naturally shrink.
Would it be the death of magic? No. But there is a big enough client base who would only play physical that Wizards will justify to keep printing physical product for now. They would probably need 3-4 years in the red (outside of a recession climate, as some companies will keep it going just to see how it lives outside of a recession if they believe in it enough) to justify axing printed product.
Paper mtg will not die, too many vested interests for that to happen. Legacy et al are already capped by duals acting as bottlenecks, d n t and a few others not withstanding.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I had a World of War craft account 10 years ago, I had high level characters and epic weapons too, I had not seen that account for 9 years. On the other hand, I have magic cards since 1996. I had not looked at my cards almost all of 2017 and up to a few weeks ago... and I still have my cards.
I don't see how any virtual game can beat that!
But World of Warcraft is still around. If you sign in, you can play with your characters.
The time when this becomes applicable is when a digital game dies and you lose access to your character.
Sure if I want to play a monthly fee, and I only have fun with those characters as long as I keep paying the monthly fee...
Well, you can farm gold and sell it for game time now, so I mean you don't "need" to pay a subscription to play.
The subscription also pays for a dynamically updated and hot fixed game, which evolves and grows over time. If you never invest in Magic Cards again (the equivalent of not paying for a subscription), then you will only every be able to play with what you have. Eventually, that will get boring (hence the need/desire to pay for more content (i.e. new cards)).
The point is that I cannot access the program anytime I like. Same goes with any online game. Paper magic is physical material and as long as I own the cards I have full access to the cards.
Exactly what happened to my Ragnarok Online account. Played ragnarok online for more than 5 years, spent time and some real money amassing powerful armour and weapons. When the servers were shut down, all my investement of time and money into that online game are now gone with no hope of return.
With paper mtg cards.. I can still play with people who have physical cards if ever WoTC goes bankrupt some years from now.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
And this is why paper is better than online magic...
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Let's not be complacent, if you have information that leads you to believe that WoTC is currently making considerations for format support moving forward - then right now is the time to be loud with our suggestions. Maybe I should duplicate and tailor a thread I have going about format bypassing cards and drop it here in the General forum... I'm trying to do my part!
Folks, please message some of your favorite Magic youtubers and get them to put a spotlight on format bypassing cards.. Please
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334931-what-is-the-most-pimp-card-deck-youve-seen-or?comment=5361
Commander
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage Grenades! EDHGR
UWSygg's Defense, EDH - Voltron & ControlWU
BUGMimeoplasm EDH ft. Ifnir Cycling-discard comboBUG
WBTeysa, Connoisseur of CullingBW
BWSelenia & Recruiter of the Guard suicice combo EDHWB
UBRWGO-Kagachi - 5 Color Enchantments - EDHUBRWG
You are right and you are wrong. Eventually, the game will become more digital. I don't know what the breakdown is now, but I imagine that online play probably accounts for less than 10% of MtG's profit. As far as competitive play goes, I would assume it is closer to 50%, but I really have no idea. So yes, in a sense, I could imagine competitive play taking part almost entirely online. But the majority of people playing magic are playing casually - mostly friends buying cards, drafting, playing commander, etc. There are also collectors. I know a few people who collect every set, and I am sure there are many collectors who don't even play. The cost of paper magic could go up, but as long as they are making new sets they will have incentive to sell paper cards.
Paper Card Quality has Deteriorated
I like the new card feel, but I dislike the amount of smudging. Hopefully the are working on a compromise. This isn't about finding a cheaper way to print cards.
Standard Player Turnout/Tournament Coverage
When I started playing at a LGS, there were about 20 people per night playing standard. Less than 5 of those people still play it. Some got into eternal formats. But most stopped playing because their decks rotated and hundreds of dollars of invested money became worthless. To get a new deck was out of their budgets.
For years, there were 3 Standard/limited PTs and one Modern/Limited PT per year. Then, to push Standard even more, they dropped Modern from the PT. Recently, they re-evaluated this because they realized that people are much more motivated to watch Eternal PTs vs Standard.
Also, they keep making Masters sets... they want to give people incentive to buy into eternal formats. Eternal formats have a lot more "customer" retention. Standard is where people get bummed out and stop playing because their 500$ investment is now worth 42.11$.
This is also why the next three sets in Ravnica will bring a lot of people back to Standard. Shocklands are money, and always will be. People will buy into this mana base, despite its price, because they can be confident it will be worth something in 2 years.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers