I am not a tutor, not a friend, nor am I a part of the MtG "community."
The please do not attend Regular REL events, which are designed to teach and foster friendship and community. Toxic positions like this have absolutely no place at FNM. I'd prefer not to see them at Competitive and Professional REL either, but at least the other players there are more likely able to handle it.
I'm going to preface this by saying I did NOT do what you guys are thinking I did. So we're shuffling up for game 3, and I came to the realization that I wasn't winning that game. Looking for any out I could, I counted his deck. 39 cards. Judge called, game loss issued, and I top 8'd a large PPTQ. Ended up getting second. While, under the rules I was entitled to the win due to his deck being at 39 cards, afterwards even my friends were like "Why'd you count his deck?" and "Did you take one of his cards?" I DID NOT remove a card from his deck, but even still it felt SO scummy and I regret it even to this day.
Simply do it before the game starts, makes matters even easier and less stressful.
In the end the big blame is on the opponent with 39 cards, as long as you didnt pull any stunt to make it happen, it might feel dirty, but in the end its as much justice as it could be (imagine, he won and got away with it, thats in some aspect even worse).
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That said, you did the right thing, for the wrong reasons, but in the end, justice is served.
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The please do not attend Regular REL events, which are designed to teach and foster friendship and community. Toxic positions like this have absolutely no place at FNM. I'd prefer not to see them at Competitive and Professional REL either, but at least the other players there are more likely able to handle it.
Magic has many different personalities and outlawing any of them is equally bad.
Someone that wants to be competitive even at a REL event is fine, that works without a problem unless the total opposite shows up like in this example here.
If you have 2 very opposite personalities clash it will never end happy.
Having a player at an event that simply cannot play the game is just insulting and annoying, nobody should deny that, even with a free win, thats not what you signed up for as a player if you want to have any form of competition.
If you are that new to the game, you can play and people happily teach you, but doing so in a tournament is simply a terrible approach (just like a player in a draft event that doesnt know any cards and is unable to make a pick in time, its doomed to be a bad experience and annoying for everyone involved).
While its clearly extreme viewpoints, people simply have to accept how the world works. Especially in a thread like this in which people openly talk about what they clearly identify as bad behavior themselves, calling people out is just bad and disrespectful.
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Everyone gets salty at some point, and everyone has a bad day, being unable to see that just makes the game worse for everyone (so there is plenty of room for either side of the spectrum and usually thats not even an issue, unless it gets to the edges).
I am not a tutor, not a friend, nor am I a part of the MtG "community."
The please do not attend Regular REL events, which are designed to teach and foster friendship and community. Toxic positions like this have absolutely no place at FNM. I'd prefer not to see them at Competitive and Professional REL either, but at least the other players there are more likely able to handle it.
I don't curse people out, I don't flip tables or throw cards, I actually have never attempted to have someone thrown out for not knowing the rules. If someone doesn't know what my card does, I'll let them read it. At FNM, if they screw up and want to take back a move, I generally will play along. I said I'm not a tutor or a member of a community. That doesn't mean I am not civil.
Guess what, nobody earns my friendship, let alone respect, just because they play the same game I do. That's ridiculous. I'm self-interested, I gladly admit it. I like competition, as it drives me to improve myself through lessons from losses. I love winning, too, and definitely prefer it over losing. I don't talk to any other players when I leave, and I play in a very competitive store. Yet we manage to not stab eachother with salt daggers.
Competitiveness is not toxicity. I know some people think looking out for #1, wanting to succeed, and wanting to win, somehow amounts to toxic...something something. They are wrong.
There was this one time where I got paired against this new girl, after she demonstrated she clearly have a very limited understanding of the rules, I asked the judge if he could just disqualify her because she doesn't know the rules or something on the lines of that. The judge refused and said I was way to hostile towards new people and asked me to teach. I just signed the slip 2-0 for her and left and told her "I'm not going to babysit you"
In hindsight, how do you feel about this?
I have no strong opinions one way or another
I'm not sure if I'll get a warning for this, but from reading your posts and your general tone, you sound like an extremely toxic and unpleasant person/MTG player. If you had said all those things and then expressed regret, I'd have nothing to say, but you don't seem to see the issue with your behaviour. People with attitudes like yours ruin casual events like FNM, events that are pretty much in existence so new players can come and learn and play. How can a player get better at FNM if nobody helps them in their opening weeks as a new player? We don't tolerate such obnoxious players at my LGS. If its what you want to do at a GP event then fine, but I imagine most players at your LGS dislike you for it.
If you live your life with the same logic displayed here, I strongly recommend you do not have children.
This is a message to the administrators, I'm not offended by these comments at all. Please do not give this guy a warning/ suspense etc.
In retrospect, I feel I was cheated out of a win (and packs). I hate being in the 0-1 bracket where you need to play against subpar people playing bugdet decks.
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
I don't have anger issues at all when it comes to MTG, but this is the scummiest thing I've done. I was tied 1-1 at a pretty large Sealed PPTQ and it was a win-and-in for top 8. I won game 1 by curving out and hitting all my bombs, game 2 was a good draw but I got curb stomped. After game 2, you know that feeling where you probably aren't going to win because your sealed deck just isn't as good as theirs? That hit me like a ton of bricks.
I'm going to preface this by saying I did NOT do what you guys are thinking I did. So we're shuffling up for game 3, and I came to the realization that I wasn't winning that game. Looking for any out I could, I counted his deck. 39 cards. Judge called, game loss issued, and I top 8'd a large PPTQ. Ended up getting second. While, under the rules I was entitled to the win due to his deck being at 39 cards, afterwards even my friends were like "Why'd you count his deck?" and "Did you take one of his cards?" I DID NOT remove a card from his deck, but even still it felt SO scummy and I regret it even to this day.
You have the right to win and count his cards. It's not a "clean" win but then again, how many wins these days in other competitive events are clean wins.
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That's somewhat reasonable, since worn sleeves can be used to mark important cards if you have low ethics. Doesn't mean you do have low ethics just that it can be a thing.
That's somewhat reasonable, since worn sleeves can be used to mark important cards if you have low ethics. Doesn't mean you do have low ethics just that it can be a thing.
Having that paranoid suspicion is one thing and perhaps even justified when a prize pool is at stake. However, people are entitled to the presumption of innocence, and requesting an opponent change their sleeves is somewhat rude because it inherently implies an accusation of cheating which more often than not isn't the case as sleeves get scratched, split, and damaged in other ways all the time while shuffling, often without immediate notice. In a situation like this, it may have been more appropriate to simply speak with the judge quietly about the sleeve concerns, perhaps even asking them to watch from a distance (just to be "safe" that there's no sketchy, more-than-coincidental correlation between the seemingly marked sleeves and cards they represent), after which they can render a decision based on their own inspection (which would likely be a game loss or dq if said player is found to be cheating by intentionally marking cards with particular sleeves.)
Anyway, my point is that most players can't realistically be expected to purchase a fresh pack of sleeves for every single game they play (even if they're wiling to spend fortunes on the cards themselves). It just wouldn't be practical to resleeve so often.
Personally, I happen to bring a fresh unopened pack of sleeves to every prerelease event I attend, but that's more a matter of tradition and superstition for me than necessity (though it does also eliminate any possibility of being suspected, let along accused of using marked sleeves). Ironically, sometimes opponents complain about this as well after cutting the deck(s) because they can't always keep the pile standing straight easily from the fresh sleeves being too slippery.
Alas, in my experience some people just like to complain so they're always look for and find something to complain about (ie: "You're using those (artistically inferior, in their opinion) basic lands?!", or my favorites: "You don't know how to play well/ build decks" or "You shouldn't (even) be playing sub-par card X" (right after you beat them with it), lol) Trust me, I've heard it all.
That's somewhat reasonable, since worn sleeves can be used to mark important cards if you have low ethics. Doesn't mean you do have low ethics just that it can be a thing.
Having that paranoid suspicion is one thing and perhaps even justified when a prize pool is at stake. However, people are entitled to the presumption of innocence, and requesting an opponent change their sleeves is somewhat rude because it inherently implies an accusation of cheating which more often than not isn't the case as sleeves get scratched, split, and damaged in other ways all the time while shuffling, often without immediate notice. In a situation like this, it may have been more appropriate to simply speak with the judge quietly about the sleeve concerns, perhaps even asking them to watch from a distance (just to be "safe" that there's no sketchy, more-than-coincidental correlation between the seemingly marked sleeves and cards they represent), after which they can render a decision based on their own inspection (which would likely be a game loss or dq if said player is found to be cheating by intentionally marking cards with particular sleeves.)
Anyway, my point is that most players can't realistically be expected to purchase a fresh pack of sleeves for every single game they play (even if they're wiling to spend fortunes on the cards themselves). It just wouldn't be practical to resleeve so often.
Personally, I happen to bring a fresh unopened pack of sleeves to every prerelease event I attend, but that's more a matter of tradition and superstition for me than necessity (though it does also eliminate any possibility of being suspected, let along accused of using marked sleeves). Ironically, sometimes opponents complain about this as well after cutting the deck(s) because they can't always keep the pile standing straight easily from the fresh sleeves being too slippery.
Alas, in my experience some people just like to complain so they're always look for and find something to complain about (ie: "You're using those (artistically inferior, in their opinion) basic lands?!", or my favorites: "You don't know how to play well/ build decks" or "You shouldn't (even) be playing sub-par card X" (right after you beat them with it), lol) Trust me, I've heard it all.
Here is my take, I usually don't mind my opponent complains about my sleeves, constantly check how many cards I have in my opening hand, request for me to count out the 3 cards off brainstorm etc. If my opponent does this, they better have absolutely perfect sleeves + announces every one of their phases and triggers absolutely precisely. (Which I find 80% of the time they do not)
I mean about the sleeves, I used to play 2 surgical extractions in my sideboard which I have not boarded in for 2 months and their sleeves was significantly newer than my regular cards.
Lastly, if the opponent is playing say jund, I mean knowing the top cards of their deck isn't that much of an advantage... But if they were playing miracles, especially now requiring blind counterbalance flips, I think it's fair to request sleeve changes
I'm actively maintaining a comprehensive article to help explain to new cube players how some complex vintage level cards work in a cube environment. Vintage Cube Cards Explained
That's somewhat reasonable, since worn sleeves can be used to mark important cards if you have low ethics. Doesn't mean you do have low ethics just that it can be a thing.
I'm calling myself out for getting unnecessarily ornery, not my opponent.
Please keep an eye on the tone and wording of your posts. Disagreeing with how someone handled a situation is fine, this topic is going to cause those kinds of disagreements, but try not to cross the line of insulting people directly.
This will be my only warning on this. This topic has a lot of potential to get out of hand if it's not handled carefully.
I don't have anger issues at all when it comes to MTG, but this is the scummiest thing I've done. I was tied 1-1 at a pretty large Sealed PPTQ and it was a win-and-in for top 8. I won game 1 by curving out and hitting all my bombs, game 2 was a good draw but I got curb stomped. After game 2, you know that feeling where you probably aren't going to win because your sealed deck just isn't as good as theirs? That hit me like a ton of bricks.
I'm going to preface this by saying I did NOT do what you guys are thinking I did. So we're shuffling up for game 3, and I came to the realization that I wasn't winning that game. Looking for any out I could, I counted his deck. 39 cards. Judge called, game loss issued, and I top 8'd a large PPTQ. Ended up getting second. While, under the rules I was entitled to the win due to his deck being at 39 cards, afterwards even my friends were like "Why'd you count his deck?" and "Did you take one of his cards?" I DID NOT remove a card from his deck, but even still it felt SO scummy and I regret it even to this day.
You have the right to win and count his cards. It's not a "clean" win but then again, how many wins these days in other competitive events are clean wins.
A legitimate point. When you sit down to play MtG, you are each making an agreement to compete against eachother within certain parameters. That's why you can't bring your playset of force of will to a standard tournament. Everyone in the room agrees to these rules, and violators are supposed to be punished. As someone who has had been penalized as a kid for a deck registration error (match loss, this was back in the old PTQ days) and lost a match due to not declaring triggers correctly, I don't begrudge people for pointing out when I broke the rules. That's how you learn.
Travis Woo did a bunch of videos regarding cheating around this time last year, and how its rampant in MtG even at the pro tour level because judges don't know how to catch it, players don't want to risk appearing "toxic" by making accusations, and WOTC doesn't penalize it hard enough.
Years ago I traded a bunch of jank random stuff for a Lion's Eye Diamond. I still feel bad. I think I used the cheapest price I could find on ebay(before tcg) which now when I look bad on it is feel like I sharked him.
Flipped a coin. While going upwards, it bounced off a hanging adornment in which it speeded back down. It slammed onto a Liliana of the Veil that wasn't even in the same game or table.
Probably the time I went into combat, opponent said he was dead if I had Ghor-Clan Rampager, I told him I did, proceeded to declare attackers... and then tapped RG, showed him a Rootbound Crag, and asked, "Game?"
Neither individual action was illegal, as I never misrepresented the Crag, but man, that was probably the greasiest way I've ever gotten someone to scoop.
I have a Nicol Bolas EDH deck that exists solely to cause chaos and randomness and never tries to win the game. It usually survives a while because I have some anti creature measures and the deck doesn't directly threaten anyone. This occasionally results in board states so confusing that people quit because they aren't in control of their own deck anymore. The dream scenario is to have leyline of anticipation and omniscience out, then cast Enter the Infinite. At that point I put 20+ spells like grip of chaos, timesifter, shared fate on the stack, then decree of annihilation, then time reversal, which puts everyone to 0 resources and a completely inscrutable set of extra rules to deal with. It's happened a couple times and I still think it's the funniest thing in the world.
I kinda had a deck like this, but I don't play it much anymore. You'd be surprised at how often I heard some variation of "Timesifter can go to hell and die."
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I try to be sociable, outgoing and friendly but I am very competitive and sometimes it gets the best of me, especially at more relevant events like GPs, RPTQs, SCGs, Nationals etc. The sarcastic remarks, when my opponent topdecks after I made the right lines and probability was in my favor, getting flooded/screwed the "good job" or "you did it" remarks sometimes slip out, but I try to be conscious, I usually avoid being snarky with my opponents and just beat myself up over it later. Sometimes when I make a play mistake, I cant resist telling my opponent how I could have won and that I should have won, but that's just me being insecure and petty too...I try to curb these things and usually they don't come up. Also at my LGS when drafting, if I'm reading my signals right in pack 1 and I'm in x and y colors because theyre open and I'm passing the person to the left of me different colors that are open for them, but they just somehow force my colors...I lecture them sometimes, even if I 3-0, that still irks me.
The other day at my LGS however, there was a Duel Commander tournament and I am close with a lot of people at the shop so we bust each other's balls pretty badly, crass jokes, mean insults, gamesmanship during matches to say the least, laughing at each other etc. There was a new player and game 1 he went basic swamp, basic plains, turn 3 blood moon in an extremely color intensive Marchesa deck playing WW, RR and BB 3 and 4 drops that could never feasibly support a blood moon consistently. I was somewhat kidding and didn't much care about the outcome of the match but I said "I'm getting ****ed by your bad Mana base" as I had all nonbasics in play. Other remarks and me being cocky as a bit of a shtick, fast forward three games I end up winning and the guy apparently was so upset he never wants to come back to the LGS, I felt and feel pretty bad about it. I wish he would have said something, but I understand why he didn't. I just couldn't have imagined someone would have taken my remarks so seriously, but that's ignorance on my behalf.
I try to be sociable, outgoing and friendly but I am very competitive and sometimes it gets the best of me, especially at more relevant events like GPs, RPTQs, SCGs, Nationals etc. The sarcastic remarks, when my opponent topdecks after I made the right lines and probability was in my favor, getting flooded/screwed the "good job" or "you did it" remarks sometimes slip out, but I try to be conscious, I usually avoid being snarky with my opponents and just beat myself up over it later. Sometimes when I make a play mistake, I cant resist telling my opponent how I could have won and that I should have won, but that's just me being insecure and petty too...I try to curb these things and usually they don't come up. Also at my LGS when drafting, if I'm reading my signals right in pack 1 and I'm in x and y colors because theyre open and I'm passing the person to the left of me different colors that are open for them, but they just somehow force my colors...I lecture them sometimes, even if I 3-0, that still irks me.
The other day at my LGS however, there was a Duel Commander tournament and I am close with a lot of people at the shop so we bust each other's balls pretty badly, crass jokes, mean insults, gamesmanship during matches to say the least, laughing at each other etc. There was a new player and game 1 he went basic swamp, basic plains, turn 3 blood moon in an extremely color intensive Marchesa deck playing WW, RR and BB 3 and 4 drops that could never feasibly support a blood moon consistently. I was somewhat kidding and didn't much care about the outcome of the match but I said "I'm getting ****ed by your bad Mana base" as I had all nonbasics in play. Other remarks and me being cocky as a bit of a shtick, fast forward three games I end up winning and the guy apparently was so upset he never wants to come back to the LGS, I felt and feel pretty bad about it. I wish he would have said something, but I understand why he didn't. I just couldn't have imagined someone would have taken my remarks so seriously, but that's ignorance on my behalf.
You seem aware of your patterns and their effects on others, that's a good thing. Being able to verbalize this uneasiness you have with your own behavior is the first step to changing your patterns. Best of luck!
Riku of Two Reflections - Copy, then copy again | Shattergang Brothers - Token Sac&Recur | Gahiji, Honored One - Multiple attack steps | Karametra, God of Harvests - Landfall, Creaturefall, Shroud | Ruhan of the Fomori - Stop hitting yourself | Zurgo Helmsmasher - Equipment&Wraths | Crosis, the Purger - Dragon Tribal Reanimator | Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - No stax, just tap and untap fun | Anafenza, the Foremost - Enduring Ideal Enchantress | Sharuum, the Hegemon - Sphinx Tribal Control | Noyan Dar - Spellslinger | The Mimeoplasm - Counterpalooza
Lists can be found here.
Still convinced the guy on Beseech the Queen is wearing a Mitra-type hat. Wake up sheeple!
I try to be sociable, outgoing and friendly but I am very competitive and sometimes it gets the best of me, especially at more relevant events like GPs, RPTQs, SCGs, Nationals etc. The sarcastic remarks, when my opponent topdecks after I made the right lines and probability was in my favor, getting flooded/screwed the "good job" or "you did it" remarks sometimes slip out, but I try to be conscious, I usually avoid being snarky with my opponents and just beat myself up over it later. Sometimes when I make a play mistake, I cant resist telling my opponent how I could have won and that I should have won, but that's just me being insecure and petty too...I try to curb these things and usually they don't come up. Also at my LGS when drafting, if I'm reading my signals right in pack 1 and I'm in x and y colors because theyre open and I'm passing the person to the left of me different colors that are open for them, but they just somehow force my colors...I lecture them sometimes, even if I 3-0, that still irks me.
The other day at my LGS however, there was a Duel Commander tournament and I am close with a lot of people at the shop so we bust each other's balls pretty badly, crass jokes, mean insults, gamesmanship during matches to say the least, laughing at each other etc. There was a new player and game 1 he went basic swamp, basic plains, turn 3 blood moon in an extremely color intensive Marchesa deck playing WW, RR and BB 3 and 4 drops that could never feasibly support a blood moon consistently. I was somewhat kidding and didn't much care about the outcome of the match but I said "I'm getting ****ed by your bad Mana base" as I had all nonbasics in play. Other remarks and me being cocky as a bit of a shtick, fast forward three games I end up winning and the guy apparently was so upset he never wants to come back to the LGS, I felt and feel pretty bad about it. I wish he would have said something, but I understand why he didn't. I just couldn't have imagined someone would have taken my remarks so seriously, but that's ignorance on my behalf.
I'm still amazed at people who refuse to play at an LGS because of a salty player. I once got dressed down by an LGS employee for winning with a standard control deck a couple years ago because I literally just had generic walls in my sideboard to stop fast aggro. I wasn't offended at any point. I wasn't scared, I didn't feel like I was in an unsafe space. Was he being a jerk? Absolutely (and he did end up being fired for repeating this behavior, but far as I was made aware it was less about complaints and more about bad PR). But unless someone is threatening me, and I mean actual threats where someone's trying to fight me in the parking lot I will gladly come back and play again and again.
People need to learn to deal with conflict in a healthy way. Yeah, you were an ass, but avoiding conflict is just as bad as getting too angry in the fact of it. If that guy was so upset, it was HIS responsibility to say "hey, that's not cool, man" or something to that effect. Nowadays everyone just runs from conflict, or they want some authority figure to intervene and crush the other person. It is genuinely sad.
I live in a big city that has mutiple places that host modern magic. I only have time to play once a week, so I can pick and choose where to play
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I try to be sociable, outgoing and friendly but I am very competitive and sometimes it gets the best of me, especially at more relevant events like GPs, RPTQs, SCGs, Nationals etc. The sarcastic remarks, when my opponent topdecks after I made the right lines and probability was in my favor, getting flooded/screwed the "good job" or "you did it" remarks sometimes slip out, but I try to be conscious, I usually avoid being snarky with my opponents and just beat myself up over it later. Sometimes when I make a play mistake, I cant resist telling my opponent how I could have won and that I should have won, but that's just me being insecure and petty too...I try to curb these things and usually they don't come up. Also at my LGS when drafting, if I'm reading my signals right in pack 1 and I'm in x and y colors because theyre open and I'm passing the person to the left of me different colors that are open for them, but they just somehow force my colors...I lecture them sometimes, even if I 3-0, that still irks me.
The other day at my LGS however, there was a Duel Commander tournament and I am close with a lot of people at the shop so we bust each other's balls pretty badly, crass jokes, mean insults, gamesmanship during matches to say the least, laughing at each other etc. There was a new player and game 1 he went basic swamp, basic plains, turn 3 blood moon in an extremely color intensive Marchesa deck playing WW, RR and BB 3 and 4 drops that could never feasibly support a blood moon consistently. I was somewhat kidding and didn't much care about the outcome of the match but I said "I'm getting ****ed by your bad Mana base" as I had all nonbasics in play. Other remarks and me being cocky as a bit of a shtick, fast forward three games I end up winning and the guy apparently was so upset he never wants to come back to the LGS, I felt and feel pretty bad about it. I wish he would have said something, but I understand why he didn't. I just couldn't have imagined someone would have taken my remarks so seriously, but that's ignorance on my behalf.
I'm still amazed at people who refuse to play at an LGS because of a salty player. I once got dressed down by an LGS employee for winning with a standard control deck a couple years ago because I literally just had generic walls in my sideboard to stop fast aggro. I wasn't offended at any point. I wasn't scared, I didn't feel like I was in an unsafe space. Was he being a jerk? Absolutely (and he did end up being fired for repeating this behavior, but far as I was made aware it was less about complaints and more about bad PR). But unless someone is threatening me, and I mean actual threats where someone's trying to fight me in the parking lot I will gladly come back and play again and again.
People need to learn to deal with conflict in a healthy way. Yeah, you were an ass, but avoiding conflict is just as bad as getting too angry in the fact of it. If that guy was so upset, it was HIS responsibility to say "hey, that's not cool, man" or something to that effect. Nowadays everyone just runs from conflict, or they want some authority figure to intervene and crush the other person. It is genuinely sad.
I agree with this to a reasonable extent. The guy was 20 years old (I'm 24) and laughed along with my remarks and acted like everything was cool, if he had said something I would have explained I was kidding, apologized and acted accordingly but he didn't give me that opportunity, he ran and told on me then dropped the hammer that he's never coming back because of me, on top of it. Leaving me with no real option but to feel like a piece of *****.
I wasn't even salty for what it's worth, although the salty remark is hilarious...if someone calls you salty and you say nothing, you're salty! If they say they are not salty, they're super salty! If they agree they're salty, they are! I just again, enjoy gamesmanship, making remarks, talking to my opponents, calling plays, joking around, I honestly mean nothing by it and most people know that.
I try to be sociable, outgoing and friendly but I am very competitive and sometimes it gets the best of me, especially at more relevant events like GPs, RPTQs, SCGs, Nationals etc. The sarcastic remarks, when my opponent topdecks after I made the right lines and probability was in my favor, getting flooded/screwed the "good job" or "you did it" remarks sometimes slip out, but I try to be conscious, I usually avoid being snarky with my opponents and just beat myself up over it later. Sometimes when I make a play mistake, I cant resist telling my opponent how I could have won and that I should have won, but that's just me being insecure and petty too...I try to curb these things and usually they don't come up. Also at my LGS when drafting, if I'm reading my signals right in pack 1 and I'm in x and y colors because theyre open and I'm passing the person to the left of me different colors that are open for them, but they just somehow force my colors...I lecture them sometimes, even if I 3-0, that still irks me.
The other day at my LGS however, there was a Duel Commander tournament and I am close with a lot of people at the shop so we bust each other's balls pretty badly, crass jokes, mean insults, gamesmanship during matches to say the least, laughing at each other etc. There was a new player and game 1 he went basic swamp, basic plains, turn 3 blood moon in an extremely color intensive Marchesa deck playing WW, RR and BB 3 and 4 drops that could never feasibly support a blood moon consistently. I was somewhat kidding and didn't much care about the outcome of the match but I said "I'm getting ****ed by your bad Mana base" as I had all nonbasics in play. Other remarks and me being cocky as a bit of a shtick, fast forward three games I end up winning and the guy apparently was so upset he never wants to come back to the LGS, I felt and feel pretty bad about it. I wish he would have said something, but I understand why he didn't. I just couldn't have imagined someone would have taken my remarks so seriously, but that's ignorance on my behalf.
I'm still amazed at people who refuse to play at an LGS because of a salty player. I once got dressed down by an LGS employee for winning with a standard control deck a couple years ago because I literally just had generic walls in my sideboard to stop fast aggro. I wasn't offended at any point. I wasn't scared, I didn't feel like I was in an unsafe space. Was he being a jerk? Absolutely (and he did end up being fired for repeating this behavior, but far as I was made aware it was less about complaints and more about bad PR). But unless someone is threatening me, and I mean actual threats where someone's trying to fight me in the parking lot I will gladly come back and play again and again.
People need to learn to deal with conflict in a healthy way. Yeah, you were an ass, but avoiding conflict is just as bad as getting too angry in the fact of it. If that guy was so upset, it was HIS responsibility to say "hey, that's not cool, man" or something to that effect. Nowadays everyone just runs from conflict, or they want some authority figure to intervene and crush the other person. It is genuinely sad.
I agree with this to a reasonable extent. The guy was 20 years old (I'm 24) and laughed along with my remarks and acted like everything was cool, if he had said something I would have explained I was kidding, apologized and acted accordingly but he didn't give me that opportunity, he ran and told on me then dropped the hammer that he's never coming back because of me, on top of it. Leaving me with no real option but to feel like a piece of *****.
I wasn't even salty for what it's worth, although the salty remark is hilarious...if someone calls you salty and you say nothing, you're salty! If they say they are not salty, they're super salty! If they agree they're salty, they are! I just again, enjoy gamesmanship, making remarks, talking to my opponents, calling plays, joking around, I honestly mean nothing by it and most people know that.
Oh well, eh.
Ah, see there's the trick. You do have a real option besides feeling bad - laugh at him for being a wuss.
I kind of hate variant commander like "kingdoms" and "sheriffs vs outlaws". Whenever the group wants to play one of these variants I play a deck that ignores the special rules and just combos out or whatever or I'll take out everyone that doesn't have a face card showing, etc. Nobody has specific decks for these types of things, so it usually ends up as a 2 hour stalemate otherwise. I just find it annoying to implement these special rules which actually don't really impact the game much when you just win without interaction anyways.
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Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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Simply do it before the game starts, makes matters even easier and less stressful.
In the end the big blame is on the opponent with 39 cards, as long as you didnt pull any stunt to make it happen, it might feel dirty, but in the end its as much justice as it could be (imagine, he won and got away with it, thats in some aspect even worse).
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That said, you did the right thing, for the wrong reasons, but in the end, justice is served.
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Magic has many different personalities and outlawing any of them is equally bad.
Someone that wants to be competitive even at a REL event is fine, that works without a problem unless the total opposite shows up like in this example here.
If you have 2 very opposite personalities clash it will never end happy.
Having a player at an event that simply cannot play the game is just insulting and annoying, nobody should deny that, even with a free win, thats not what you signed up for as a player if you want to have any form of competition.
If you are that new to the game, you can play and people happily teach you, but doing so in a tournament is simply a terrible approach (just like a player in a draft event that doesnt know any cards and is unable to make a pick in time, its doomed to be a bad experience and annoying for everyone involved).
While its clearly extreme viewpoints, people simply have to accept how the world works. Especially in a thread like this in which people openly talk about what they clearly identify as bad behavior themselves, calling people out is just bad and disrespectful.
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Everyone gets salty at some point, and everyone has a bad day, being unable to see that just makes the game worse for everyone (so there is plenty of room for either side of the spectrum and usually thats not even an issue, unless it gets to the edges).
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I don't curse people out, I don't flip tables or throw cards, I actually have never attempted to have someone thrown out for not knowing the rules. If someone doesn't know what my card does, I'll let them read it. At FNM, if they screw up and want to take back a move, I generally will play along. I said I'm not a tutor or a member of a community. That doesn't mean I am not civil.
Guess what, nobody earns my friendship, let alone respect, just because they play the same game I do. That's ridiculous. I'm self-interested, I gladly admit it. I like competition, as it drives me to improve myself through lessons from losses. I love winning, too, and definitely prefer it over losing. I don't talk to any other players when I leave, and I play in a very competitive store. Yet we manage to not stab eachother with salt daggers.
Competitiveness is not toxicity. I know some people think looking out for #1, wanting to succeed, and wanting to win, somehow amounts to toxic...something something. They are wrong.
This is a message to the administrators, I'm not offended by these comments at all. Please do not give this guy a warning/ suspense etc.
In retrospect, I feel I was cheated out of a win (and packs). I hate being in the 0-1 bracket where you need to play against subpar people playing bugdet decks.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
You have the right to win and count his cards. It's not a "clean" win but then again, how many wins these days in other competitive events are clean wins.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
Having that paranoid suspicion is one thing and perhaps even justified when a prize pool is at stake. However, people are entitled to the presumption of innocence, and requesting an opponent change their sleeves is somewhat rude because it inherently implies an accusation of cheating which more often than not isn't the case as sleeves get scratched, split, and damaged in other ways all the time while shuffling, often without immediate notice. In a situation like this, it may have been more appropriate to simply speak with the judge quietly about the sleeve concerns, perhaps even asking them to watch from a distance (just to be "safe" that there's no sketchy, more-than-coincidental correlation between the seemingly marked sleeves and cards they represent), after which they can render a decision based on their own inspection (which would likely be a game loss or dq if said player is found to be cheating by intentionally marking cards with particular sleeves.)
Anyway, my point is that most players can't realistically be expected to purchase a fresh pack of sleeves for every single game they play (even if they're wiling to spend fortunes on the cards themselves). It just wouldn't be practical to resleeve so often.
Personally, I happen to bring a fresh unopened pack of sleeves to every prerelease event I attend, but that's more a matter of tradition and superstition for me than necessity (though it does also eliminate any possibility of being suspected, let along accused of using marked sleeves). Ironically, sometimes opponents complain about this as well after cutting the deck(s) because they can't always keep the pile standing straight easily from the fresh sleeves being too slippery.
Alas, in my experience some people just like to complain so they're always look for and find something to complain about (ie: "You're using those (artistically inferior, in their opinion) basic lands?!", or my favorites: "You don't know how to play well/ build decks" or "You shouldn't (even) be playing sub-par card X" (right after you beat them with it), lol) Trust me, I've heard it all.
I used to be a demigod, but now I'm an omnimage
Here is my take, I usually don't mind my opponent complains about my sleeves, constantly check how many cards I have in my opening hand, request for me to count out the 3 cards off brainstorm etc. If my opponent does this, they better have absolutely perfect sleeves + announces every one of their phases and triggers absolutely precisely. (Which I find 80% of the time they do not)
I mean about the sleeves, I used to play 2 surgical extractions in my sideboard which I have not boarded in for 2 months and their sleeves was significantly newer than my regular cards.
Lastly, if the opponent is playing say jund, I mean knowing the top cards of their deck isn't that much of an advantage... But if they were playing miracles, especially now requiring blind counterbalance flips, I think it's fair to request sleeve changes
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
This will be my only warning on this. This topic has a lot of potential to get out of hand if it's not handled carefully.
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A legitimate point. When you sit down to play MtG, you are each making an agreement to compete against eachother within certain parameters. That's why you can't bring your playset of force of will to a standard tournament. Everyone in the room agrees to these rules, and violators are supposed to be punished. As someone who has had been penalized as a kid for a deck registration error (match loss, this was back in the old PTQ days) and lost a match due to not declaring triggers correctly, I don't begrudge people for pointing out when I broke the rules. That's how you learn.
Travis Woo did a bunch of videos regarding cheating around this time last year, and how its rampant in MtG even at the pro tour level because judges don't know how to catch it, players don't want to risk appearing "toxic" by making accusations, and WOTC doesn't penalize it hard enough.
Neither individual action was illegal, as I never misrepresented the Crag, but man, that was probably the greasiest way I've ever gotten someone to scoop.
I kinda had a deck like this, but I don't play it much anymore. You'd be surprised at how often I heard some variation of "Timesifter can go to hell and die."
My 720 Peasant Cube
The other day at my LGS however, there was a Duel Commander tournament and I am close with a lot of people at the shop so we bust each other's balls pretty badly, crass jokes, mean insults, gamesmanship during matches to say the least, laughing at each other etc. There was a new player and game 1 he went basic swamp, basic plains, turn 3 blood moon in an extremely color intensive Marchesa deck playing WW, RR and BB 3 and 4 drops that could never feasibly support a blood moon consistently. I was somewhat kidding and didn't much care about the outcome of the match but I said "I'm getting ****ed by your bad Mana base" as I had all nonbasics in play. Other remarks and me being cocky as a bit of a shtick, fast forward three games I end up winning and the guy apparently was so upset he never wants to come back to the LGS, I felt and feel pretty bad about it. I wish he would have said something, but I understand why he didn't. I just couldn't have imagined someone would have taken my remarks so seriously, but that's ignorance on my behalf.
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Lists can be found here.
I'm still amazed at people who refuse to play at an LGS because of a salty player. I once got dressed down by an LGS employee for winning with a standard control deck a couple years ago because I literally just had generic walls in my sideboard to stop fast aggro. I wasn't offended at any point. I wasn't scared, I didn't feel like I was in an unsafe space. Was he being a jerk? Absolutely (and he did end up being fired for repeating this behavior, but far as I was made aware it was less about complaints and more about bad PR). But unless someone is threatening me, and I mean actual threats where someone's trying to fight me in the parking lot I will gladly come back and play again and again.
People need to learn to deal with conflict in a healthy way. Yeah, you were an ass, but avoiding conflict is just as bad as getting too angry in the fact of it. If that guy was so upset, it was HIS responsibility to say "hey, that's not cool, man" or something to that effect. Nowadays everyone just runs from conflict, or they want some authority figure to intervene and crush the other person. It is genuinely sad.
Vintage Cube Cards Explained
Here are some other articles I've written about fine tuning your cube:
1. Minimum Archetype Support
2. Improving Green Archetypes
3. Improving White Archetypes
4. Matchup Analysis
5. Cube Combos (Work in Progress)
Draft my Cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/d8i
I agree with this to a reasonable extent. The guy was 20 years old (I'm 24) and laughed along with my remarks and acted like everything was cool, if he had said something I would have explained I was kidding, apologized and acted accordingly but he didn't give me that opportunity, he ran and told on me then dropped the hammer that he's never coming back because of me, on top of it. Leaving me with no real option but to feel like a piece of *****.
I wasn't even salty for what it's worth, although the salty remark is hilarious...if someone calls you salty and you say nothing, you're salty! If they say they are not salty, they're super salty! If they agree they're salty, they are! I just again, enjoy gamesmanship, making remarks, talking to my opponents, calling plays, joking around, I honestly mean nothing by it and most people know that.
Oh well, eh.
Ah, see there's the trick. You do have a real option besides feeling bad - laugh at him for being a wuss.
Then later on that same day, I prevented some other guy who was trying to shark on a kid for his masterpiece lol!