Apparently Wizards of the Coast or some part of their company has been in talks with GameStop to become almost like sanctioned events or almost like LGS stores but in local GameStop locations. At first when I heard about this I kind of thought it was a little bit of a reach. I didn't really believe it, I was very skeptical. So then I reached out to a friend of one individual who owns a couple GameStop's in Florida and they weren't really willing to discuss much of it but I did get confirmation that the talks were a real thing.
As far as how far along it's going through or what's going to happen, I have no idea. But what I did find the most fascinating is I want to talk about the pros and cons, and I also want to disclose up front that I REALLY do not like GameStop. I had very very poor experience many years ago when I was interested in buying video games and consoles and different things probably about 5 to 8 years ago. I went to GameStop 6 months ago when they were running Magic: the Gathering as clearance items and I would buy Magic booster packs for 99 cents because I saw someone talking about it online and that was that.
So apparently there is behind closed doors discussions where Wizards of the Coast and GameStop Corporate employees are discussing how they would go about turning some GameStop's into like a local game store and they want to be approved to host sanctioned events for Magic: the Gathering, Pokémon TCG, and possibly other Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games down the line such as Yu-Gi-Oh! and Force of Will TCG but specifically Magic: the Gathering and Pokémon TCG.
I have two very split reactions on a topic like this because I have a feeling that half the people aren't gonna care and they're going to be very inquisitive about this as I haven't been able to find the information online or YouTube about it. So the first thing in regards to my disclosure is that I hate the way GameStop is in their current state. I don't like the way the corporate conglomerate pushes the local level employees to pre-sale and get deposits and really push sales almost like a commission basis while most of them don't actually get Commission.
But If they don't push certain numbers they can literally get fired for not having good Commission numbers although not getting Commission and it's very complicated and very silly. So that's the first thing I really really do not like, I don't like having employees when I go to a video game store or a card store that are going to have these corporate trained kind of lemmings that are going to push people and buyers to do certain things that are just the highest margin of profit at the expense of kids, teenagers, and parents. Again a lot of people don't like GameStop because they don't like the idea of purchasing a $60 video game that you can trade in next week for $10 and then they sell it for $49 instead of $60 for the used copy.
There's a lot of issues like that, however my biggest thing when it comes to Magic: the Gathering is well let's look at what this can cause. The positive thing is If Magic: the Gathering goes through or Wizards of the Coast goes through a GameStop on doing a test market with a couple of GameStop stores becoming pretty much like an LGS store. The positive thing I can see would be that it's going to help introduce more people into Magic: the Gathering and Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games in general that have probably never played or handled them before.
I don't think there's any way to negatively speak about getting new people to start playing Magic: the Gathering or being introduced to the game. I think that's the only topic everybody can agree on that it would be positive. Anytime we can get new people to play the game or attempt to learn the rules or know what it is is a net positive thing for all Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games. Now here's where it gets a little wishy-washy. A lot of people are going to feel that by taking a corporate monster like GameStop which as we all know is having a lot of restructuring issues, they've been trying cell phones, accessories, they've been trying to branch off into different categories because of the movement of the video game world into the digital download and non brick-and-mortar direction.
Their corporate overlords are very well aware of that and they're very concerned with the direction. Therefore they're doing a lot of testing with different stores around the country, trying a lot of different markets and business models. I know they tried the retro video game model awhile back ago and I heard it was doing terrible. So anyways, the positive thing is new Magic players. Besides that I can't really think of any other positive attributes that this would really bring. I know what you're all probably thinking, "More downward pressure on a local game store from a monster like GameStop with their pricing power carrying more products and hosting FNM's and doing sanctioned events."
I don't really know how it will all unfold, I don't think anybody really does. But I definitely think that it's a concerning direction. Overall I'm leaning towards that I don't agree with the idea but I think Wizards of the Coast is going to do it. I think there's going to be test stores somewhere around the country and If it goes over they're probably going to expand that business model with GameStop stores and locations. My #1 reason behind it is because with the closing of Toys R Us in the retail restructuring environment where retail brick-and-mortar is just almost laughable I don't think there's much of a choice for someone like Hasbro that owns a bunch of brands and toys, board games, and card games.
I don't think a conglomerate like that has much of a direction especially after losing a Toys R Us monster. As we all know at this point, Hasbro and a lot of other distributors picked up all the Magic: the Gathering and Pokémon TCG cards from Toys R Us locations. They were literally re-packaged in return and not fire sold at Toys R Us clearance sales before they were closed. So they obviously didn't want the product to be fire sold because they picked it back up to almost re-distribute the distributed product. But the negative thing is that I'm trying to picture an era where GameStop has tables in it with chairs and a bunch of kids, teenagers, adults, and parents playing in a sanctioned event and there's like a Level 1 or 2 Judge there and I'm trying to picture it.
I don't know about you all around the country about what your GameStop is like near you but at least for me in the Orlando to Jacksonsville, Florida Gainesville area most GameStop's I've looked at are pretty rough. They're pretty dirty, poorly ran, they have no idea their inventory is like, "Oh yeah Rudy we have ten of these video games or ten booster packs of Kaladesh in stock from our inventory....we have zero." You know their inventory is a joke because of theft, problems, employees, and just poor management. They're just rough places at least the one's I've been to. I'm sure there's some GameStop's that are very nice, maybe I just haven't experienced it.
I really just don't know how that's going to be a positive thing for Magic: the Gathering. I just don't know how that kind of a feel at least how I visualize GameStop stores to look. Is it going to give a positive light to Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games and you walk into these stores and some employees start pushing you to do this or that or are they going to start having single cards? Are they going to have prize support for tournaments? Are they going to be WPN since they're going to be doing tournaments which means that all GameStop's nationwide are going to have (I was going to say From the Vault but that no longer exists) Spellbooks and Masters sets now at GameStop in addition to Walmart and Target?
I know some people are gonna say, "Well Rudy they're just replacing Toys R Us with GameStop." I mean I get that, I don't know but I don't feel very good about it. I feel like there's going to be a lot of local game stores that are just going to take a beating on the Friday Night Magic type of FNM approach because you know local game stores and Magic stores are more of a 7 Eleven gas station nowadays than they are really a card store. The most common thing you see is, "Oh we make our money by selling these Little Debbie snacks over here and we sell 48 different kinds of energy drinks by making sure that they're all the worst versions and that all of our players consume them."
Local game stores want to push snacks and drinks and If GameStop starts doing that and there's more of them and they're in better locations and more prime real estate it just seems like it's going to cause more real game stores and real LGS stores to close their doors for good. So I really don't think that there's going to be a net positive If you're putting local game stores out of business but you're replacing it with a local game store known as the "local GameStop store". How is just replacing a small business LGS with a corporate LGS going to help more players join the game besides getting people who play video games walk into the store and be exposed to it?
As we see Wizards of the Coast pushing more towards a digital space and we see the Paper equivalent, you know new sales are very weak. Now hopefully Dominaria is supposed to be a powerhouse which everyone agrees and I agree should help. Hasbro's going in a direction where they're more focused on working with a GameStop compared to helping actual game stores where there's at least 3,000 local game stores nationwide that are already in business trying to get the same kind of approval from Wizards of the Coast to host tournaments and events and represent Magic: the Gathering in a nice environment.
I don't see why they just continue to choose to just turn their back on that while trying to turn a corporate local GameStop store into the new LGS compared to trying to help the current ones. It's almost as If they're embarrassed of the current model for local game stores or they just know that it's outdated or maybe they just don't like the profit margins it brings or maybe they don't like the people I don't know.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
1) This is likely an attempt to circumvent the costs associated with background checks that Wizards doesn't want to pay for by using existing checks as part of corporate hiring while also managing to be another middle finger to LGS around the world.
2) I don't know what storefronts Gamestop has in Seattle, but in my corner of the world Gamestop has barely enough space for a cardboard standee of Call of Duty 18: Putin's Revenge let alone tables and chairs for a PPTQ.
After weeks of having casual FNM events with barely enough people for half a pod, the last few weeks have seen a 30 player PPTQ the week before and drafts with at least full 8. Nothing changed with the store and nothing changed with the draft format, but I left last Friday with packs and a foil promo Opt instead of a pack and a foil fliped Illusion token and a guy left with a foil promo Noble and RPTQ invite.
Assuming the talks are not just a probing or something for expanding venues, it will be interesting to see how this all unfolds. There are a lot of good reasons why Hasbro would want to open up shop with Gamestop, not the least of which is the closing of Toys'r'us. Also, interesting note: There was no fire sale of merchandise at the closing venues: the unsold goods were scooped back up to supposedly get redistributed to Walmart, Target, and other retailers.
My guess is that:
1) WoTC does legitimately want to get away from the older player base, or at least Hasbro corporate wants to.
2) There is a need to cross promote MTG Arena, and having paper tournaments at gamestop means people getting more exposure to things like redeemable game cards and the like.
3) Hasbro wants to use gamestop as a way to sell some of their toy lines besides MTG and since they are discussing the other toy lines, the idea of running paper tournaments for magic came up.
I do think they want to get away from certain groups of players and cater more towards a new audience. I'm just not sure I want to point fingers at which groups of players and the associations in the current MtG eco system like the LGS, as it would probably spark off an entire debate thread.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Assuming the talks are not just a probing or something for expanding venues, it will be interesting to see how this all unfolds. There are a lot of good reasons why Hasbro would want to open up shop with Gamestop, not the least of which is the closing of Toys'r'us. Also, interesting note: There was no fire sale of merchandise at the closing venues: the unsold goods were scooped back up to supposedly get redistributed to Walmart, Target, and other retailers.
My guess is that:
1) WoTC does legitimately want to get away from the older player base, or at least Hasbro corporate wants to.
2) There is a need to cross promote MTG Arena, and having paper tournaments at gamestop means people getting more exposure to things like redeemable game cards and the like.
3) Hasbro wants to use gamestop as a way to sell some of their toy lines besides MTG and since they are discussing the other toy lines, the idea of running paper tournaments for magic came up.
I do think they want to get away from certain groups of players and cater more towards a new audience. I'm just not sure I want to point fingers at which groups of players and the associations in the current MtG eco system like the LGS, as it would probably spark off an entire debate thread.
Might as well talk about it.
I honestly can't see the benefit of scaring away the older crowd in point #1. By older I assume Vintage/Legacy players.
Without getting into the entire Reserved List, which I think plays a huge part in all of this, I don't think any way you slice this can anyone say Vintage/Legacy players should be excised in any way. If you look at this like a group of people who steadfastly refuse to buy packs, then how would excising these players change the status quo? It's not like WotC caters to that crowd anyways. No lost revenue for a revenue stream that doesn't exist.
If by you mean older as in the Modern crowd. Then it would be impossible to get rid of them. Some Standard players are eventually going to look at their cards and look to a new format. That could be Modern, EDH or even Pauper. By this I mean that players are going to eventually look for value in these cards after their life at Standard expires. Since WotC seems to be Leary of a legacy format, the players are going to create their own and we'll be full circle again
What would be the end goal? To stop all the hoarding, investing and speculating that goes on? Then just print the damn cards that people are clamoring for instead of just one stinking card people want in a set (looking st you Iconic and M25).
It's actually not specifically legacy or modern players, but more of a subset of these players in the older age range that they don't particularly like. The reason I don't want to talk about it is that it's not completely clear from my own vantage point who all the members of this group are, but I know investor types are part of it along with part of the collectors community and the real reason I don't feel like bringing it up is that it also includes the guy in charge of the Quartering and Unsleeved Media, which is it's own entire can of worms.
My intuition is telling me starting any conversation involving that guy is like throwing a match into an old mine shaft full of TNT and then watching an entire tree line fold into the crater.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
It also just makes sense from a revenue perspective. I'm sure numbers would suggest teens and younger players that maybe still have mom and pop paying for their hobbies spend more money than older players that have to balance their disposable income with other obligations. They've been trying to make MTG more kid friendly from a design perspective lately (The uptick in creature/PW based play rather than spell-based play seems indicative of it), so I'm sure this has been on their minds for a while and this opportunity with GS is another rung in the ladder.
It also just makes sense from a revenue perspective. I'm sure numbers would suggest teens and younger players that maybe still have mom and pop paying for their hobbies spend more money than older players that have to balance their disposable income with other obligations. They've been trying to make MTG more kid friendly from a design perspective lately (The uptick in creature/PW based play rather than spell-based play seems indicative of it), so I'm sure this has been on their minds for a while and this opportunity with GS is another rung in the ladder.
That and given the way wizards does reprints it's plausible that they are trying to change modern as well by only printing support for cards they want to see non-rotating format play of. It's just they want to do it in ways that make the least amount of noise, so the still will reprint things like liliana of the veil and Snapcaster Mage, for example, at mythic rarity in the masters sets.
The part I don't agree with as far as some folks are concerned is that wizards of the coast and hasbro will drop support for LGS if they have Gamestop running events. They have zero reason to do that at this time because there is still a huge number of players that primarily attend their local game stores, and honestly does anyone trust gamestop to run tournaments?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Gamestop shops in my area are usually small and there is no way you can run a magic tournament in them, as they are actual stores selling stuff in cities.
If they are somehow big places with lots of empty space, sure why not, i just dont know any of them, should they exist.
Assuming the talks are not just a probing or something for expanding venues, it will be interesting to see how this all unfolds. There are a lot of good reasons why Hasbro would want to open up shop with Gamestop, not the least of which is the closing of Toys'r'us. Also, interesting note: There was no fire sale of merchandise at the closing venues: the unsold goods were scooped back up to supposedly get redistributed to Walmart, Target, and other retailers.
My guess is that:
1) WoTC does legitimately want to get away from the older player base, or at least Hasbro corporate wants to.
2) There is a need to cross promote MTG Arena, and having paper tournaments at gamestop means people getting more exposure to things like redeemable game cards and the like.
3) Hasbro wants to use gamestop as a way to sell some of their toy lines besides MTG and since they are discussing the other toy lines, the idea of running paper tournaments for magic came up.
I do think they want to get away from certain groups of players and cater more towards a new audience. I'm just not sure I want to point fingers at which groups of players and the associations in the current MtG eco system like the LGS, as it would probably spark off an entire debate thread.
Might as well talk about it.
I honestly can't see the benefit of scaring away the older crowd in point #1. By older I assume Vintage/Legacy players.
Without getting into the entire Reserved List, which I think plays a huge part in all of this, I don't think any way you slice this can anyone say Vintage/Legacy players should be excised in any way. If you look at this like a group of people who steadfastly refuse to buy packs, then how would excising these players change the status quo? It's not like WotC caters to that crowd anyways. No lost revenue for a revenue stream that doesn't exist.
If by you mean older as in the Modern crowd. Then it would be impossible to get rid of them. Some Standard players are eventually going to look at their cards and look to a new format. That could be Modern, EDH or even Pauper. By this I mean that players are going to eventually look for value in these cards after their life at Standard expires. Since WotC seems to be Leary of a legacy format, the players are going to create their own and we'll be full circle again
What would be the end goal? To stop all the hoarding, investing and speculating that goes on? Then just print the damn cards that people are clamoring for instead of just one stinking card people want in a set (looking st you Iconic and M25).
TLDR;
Hasbro would be completely out of their minds.
FYI, what you are implying is that financial decisions are the single motivating factor behind the decisions at wizards of the coast and that isn't really the case right now. There is evidence pointing towards the company having strong political leanings and making emotional decisions that are not based upon sound financial judgement. The things that wizards are doing now are reminiscent of the bible thumper situation back when the game started, except the changes from that were from external forces. A sane company doesn't print out instructions that are to be posted at LGS locations telling people to be inclusive, carefully control comments to censor out people with even slightly different view points, and listen primarily to twitter and tumbler.
Tend to agree with some other people elsewhere that we can likely ride this whole politics thing out. WotC might have internal issues, but Hasbro is about sound business and they aren't going to put up with WoTC if it keeps bringing about drama on social media and costs them sales.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Gamestop shops in my area are usually small and there is no way you can run a magic tournament in them, as they are actual stores selling stuff in cities.
If they are somehow big places with lots of empty space, sure why not, i just dont know any of them, should they exist.
I'm in the same boat. I think my bedroom is bigger than my closest Game Stop.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Embrace the dark you call a home,
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
Game Stop has been moving in the direction of "nerd store" for many years now. Hosting Magic and Pokemon tournaments just makes sense from a business standpint. It gets people into the stores. Once they are in, the players are likely to buy something (be it a new video game, some boosters, a pop, etc.).
For Hasbro, this makes sense. There are fewer and fewer retailers in the market. Unless you want to start hosting events at Target or WalMart, then your two go-to options are going to be Barnes and Nobles and Game Stops. Game Stop is likely a better call due to the fact that the fact that the people who regularly go to Game Stop are the same people Hasbro/WotC want to target (kids and teens).
In most areas, there are at least one or two Game Stops that are larger than the "closet" sized ones. These larger Game Stops could (if free standing product was moved to the back room) easily accommodate 8 or more players. One of my FLGSes is in the mall. Before they expanded, they were maybe half a gain as large as the smallest Game Stop that exists in my city. That store could squeeze 16+ people in every week for tournaments. I mean it is not like we are playing 40k here (6x4 table required for every two players). If you squeeze, people will fit.
I seriously doubt the goal is to be overflowing with people at each event. It is likely aimed at casual fans who are intimidated by FLGSes. This is a marketing tool to nudge people to play the game and introduce them to the greater world outside their kitchen table.
Game Stop has been moving in the direction of "nerd store" for many years now. Hosting Magic and Pokemon tournaments just makes sense from a business standpint. It gets people into the stores. Once they are in, the players are likely to buy something (be it a new video game, some boosters, a pop, etc.).
For Hasbro, this makes sense. There are fewer and fewer retailers in the market. Unless you want to start hosting events at Target or WalMart, then your two go-to options are going to be Barnes and Nobles and Game Stops. Game Stop is likely a better call due to the fact that the fact that the people who regularly go to Game Stop are the same people Hasbro/WotC want to target (kids and teens).
In most areas, there are at least one or two Game Stops that are larger than the "closet" sized ones. These larger Game Stops could (if free standing product was moved to the back room) easily accommodate 8 or more players. One of my FLGSes is in the mall. Before they expanded, they were maybe half a gain as large as the smallest Game Stop that exists in my city. That store could squeeze 16+ people in every week for tournaments. I mean it is not like we are playing 40k here (6x4 table required for every two players). If you squeeze, people will fit.
I seriously doubt the goal is to be overflowing with people at each event. It is likely aimed at casual fans who are intimidated by FLGSes. This is a marketing tool to nudge people to play the game and introduce them to the greater world outside their kitchen table.
Pretty much my own opinion on it. I don't think they would run the same kind of events that a regular LGS would run unless they start selling singles there, too. I could see them running sealed tournaments and probably open house kind of events.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Game Stop has been moving in the direction of "nerd store" for many years now. Hosting Magic and Pokemon tournaments just makes sense from a business standpint. It gets people into the stores. Once they are in, the players are likely to buy something (be it a new video game, some boosters, a pop, etc.).
For Hasbro, this makes sense. There are fewer and fewer retailers in the market. Unless you want to start hosting events at Target or WalMart, then your two go-to options are going to be Barnes and Nobles and Game Stops. Game Stop is likely a better call due to the fact that the fact that the people who regularly go to Game Stop are the same people Hasbro/WotC want to target (kids and teens).
In most areas, there are at least one or two Game Stops that are larger than the "closet" sized ones. These larger Game Stops could (if free standing product was moved to the back room) easily accommodate 8 or more players. One of my FLGSes is in the mall. Before they expanded, they were maybe half a gain as large as the smallest Game Stop that exists in my city. That store could squeeze 16+ people in every week for tournaments. I mean it is not like we are playing 40k here (6x4 table required for every two players). If you squeeze, people will fit.
I seriously doubt the goal is to be overflowing with people at each event. It is likely aimed at casual fans who are intimidated by FLGSes. This is a marketing tool to nudge people to play the game and introduce them to the greater world outside their kitchen table.
They are basically a corporate/chain LGS, they already sell sealed product.
Game Stop has been moving in the direction of "nerd store" for many years now. Hosting Magic and Pokemon tournaments just makes sense from a business standpint. It gets people into the stores. Once they are in, the players are likely to buy something (be it a new video game, some boosters, a pop, etc.).
Sure, but as others have mentioned, GameStop stores rarely if ever have enough room to hold a tournament. Even a single 8-man draft pod would be a stretch in the vast majority of GS locations.
The reason why we're seeing this situation unfold is due to ongoing pressure from online retailers making it increasingly difficult for their competitors to play by the same set of rules and the impending U.S. Supreme Court case involving South Dakota v. Wayfair today may change all that. If the Supreme Court rules in favor of South Dakota by implementing a sales tax for online goods then that would have a negative effect on the online singles market by putting more money back into local game stores.
That means local game stores will have to start carrying card singles that nobody will be able to afford online due to the combination of having to pay more for state taxes and shipping. The downside is that it makes it harder for consumers to purchase card singles online that their local game store doesn't carry which makes it even harder to complete decks for certain Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games. The potential impact of this Supreme Court hearing could actually save WotC the trouble of needing to partner with GameStop in order to "save" local game stores.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
That's because they comply with sales tax requirements for their online orders since they actually have a "physical presence" in every state as opposed to online retailers such as eBay where they don't have a physical presence in each state. Online retailers are forced to lower the cost of their products in order to make them more appealing to consumers and without it they may as well go out of business.
Before the rise of e-commerce there was a similar case that was brought to the U.S. Supreme Court known as Quill Corp. v. North Dakota which was ruled in favor of Quill Corp. enabling online retailers to easily sell into states in which they have no physical presence. States lost $13.4 billion in revenue in 2017, significantly impacting South Dakota and other states that rely heavily on sales taxes instead of collecting income taxes.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Assuming the talks are not just a probing or something for expanding venues, it will be interesting to see how this all unfolds. There are a lot of good reasons why Hasbro would want to open up shop with Gamestop, not the least of which is the closing of Toys'r'us. Also, interesting note: There was no fire sale of merchandise at the closing venues: the unsold goods were scooped back up to supposedly get redistributed to Walmart, Target, and other retailers.
My guess is that:
1) WoTC does legitimately want to get away from the older player base, or at least Hasbro corporate wants to.
2) There is a need to cross promote MTG Arena, and having paper tournaments at gamestop means people getting more exposure to things like redeemable game cards and the like.
3) Hasbro wants to use gamestop as a way to sell some of their toy lines besides MTG and since they are discussing the other toy lines, the idea of running paper tournaments for magic came up.
I do think they want to get away from certain groups of players and cater more towards a new audience. I'm just not sure I want to point fingers at which groups of players and the associations in the current MtG eco system like the LGS, as it would probably spark off an entire debate thread.
It's okay, we all know you mean salty, obese, 20 and 30 something neckbeards who have their ass cracks hanging out when they play and are "that guy" that doesn't wear deoderant at the LGS. Personally, I'm all on board for this- those weirdos need to figure out their life- and no, hauling a 2 liter of mountain dew around and drinking out of it is not "normal behavior" for the average person.
Assuming the talks are not just a probing or something for expanding venues, it will be interesting to see how this all unfolds. There are a lot of good reasons why Hasbro would want to open up shop with Gamestop, not the least of which is the closing of Toys'r'us. Also, interesting note: There was no fire sale of merchandise at the closing venues: the unsold goods were scooped back up to supposedly get redistributed to Walmart, Target, and other retailers.
My guess is that:
1) WoTC does legitimately want to get away from the older player base, or at least Hasbro corporate wants to.
2) There is a need to cross promote MTG Arena, and having paper tournaments at gamestop means people getting more exposure to things like redeemable game cards and the like.
3) Hasbro wants to use gamestop as a way to sell some of their toy lines besides MTG and since they are discussing the other toy lines, the idea of running paper tournaments for magic came up.
I do think they want to get away from certain groups of players and cater more towards a new audience. I'm just not sure I want to point fingers at which groups of players and the associations in the current MtG eco system like the LGS, as it would probably spark off an entire debate thread.
It's okay, we all know you mean salty, obese, 20 and 30 something neckbeards who have their ass cracks hanging out when they play and are "that guy" that doesn't wear deoderant at the LGS. Personally, I'm all on board for this- those weirdos need to figure out their life- and no, hauling a 2 liter of mountain dew around and drinking out of it is not "normal behavior" for the average person.
*looks down to confirm he is wearing a belt* Okay I'm good.
I think we can all be honest for a bit, WOTC is kind of ashamed of being a nerdy hobby. I mean I was playing modern last night and there was a pretty broad spectrum of individuals (we had forty-two players, modern is huge in my area). But yes you had some of this cliche in the room. Magic is lagging behind video games, comics, and anime of building a subculture that isn't viewed negatively. That's why they want the gatewatch to be popular (they're awful), that's why they want cosplayers (of awful characters), that's why they want to promote women playing magic. Magic isn't "cool enough" on a mainstream level. Sure, they are a multi million dollar company with a game's that's existed for a quarter century, but they want cooler kids playing. No idea if the people they consider cooler actually spend any money on the product, but that's less important. Hell Marvel would rather sell 5K comics to "the right people" than 50K comics to anyone else.
But let's be clear, WOTC is not interested in expanding its customer base. It is interested in replacement. And you may feel better thinking its just the "neckbeards," but WOTC wants to replace way more than that.
Maybe if every white guy quit buying any new MTG product for a year WOTC would get the message about whom their clientele is. If they want us out of the game so badly we should oblige them. The only way WOTC will cut out this SJW b.s. is hit to their margins.
Maybe WOTC wants “white guys” out of the game, but their shareholders will feel differently. It’s just so sad the most players won’t boycott the company, even if it’s for their own good.
When a company states that it would rather not cater to it’s majority customers that company is out of touch. I for one find it insulting that they would rather I slink off and not play their game. If they want to bite the hand that feeds maybe that hand should slap back.
Public Mod Note
(Airithne):
Infraction for trolling.
Gutting the online singles market through an internet sales tax that nobody wants to pay for might be the straw that breaks the camels back to get more players to boycott WotC since they know the alternative would be to purchase sealed product from local game stores or feel like they're being obligated to purchase card singles they don't want because the card singles with more demand are being hoarded by collectors and Modern players.
This explains the Reserve List buyouts and why Hasbro has been pushing WotC to release more Masters sets. The fact of the matter is that people have been abusing the convenience of the online singles market for Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games to put brick-and-mortar, mom and pop stores, and shopping malls out of business for their own self interest.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Gutting the online singles market through an internet sales tax that nobody wants to pay for might be the straw that breaks the camels back to get more players to boycott WotC since they know the alternative would be to purchase sealed product from local game stores or feel like they're being obligated to purchase card singles they don't want because the card singles with more demand are being hoarded by collectors and Modern players.
This explains the Reserve List buyouts and why Hasbro has been pushing WotC to release more Masters sets. The fact of the matter is that people have been abusing the convenience of the online singles market for Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games to put brick-and-mortar, mom and pop stores, and shopping malls out of business for their own self interest.
That's not really abuse, that's people taking the cheapest route to making a playable deck for constructed. Wizards of the Coast does make it so that someone can build a deck out of a booster box of cards, but at the same time everyone knows the real constructed formats are standard, modern, etc. Also, the people who buy singles are almost always semi-competitive or dedicated commander players at the very least. The people who buy booster boxes and the frankly abysmal planeswalker decks are mostly into the game for fun with friends.
Finally, for people who don't have a bunch of friends to play with and only have time to go to FNM, there is the "it's dangerous to go alone, take this with you!" mind set. Basically, the player buys up a top tier standard deck because they don't want to get crushed and have a bad experience while playing against a bunch of people they are not familiar with.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Since this is continually derailing threads, I'll ask once that we keep this thread from straying in to politics, and I'll also ask that we keep the SJW pejoratives to a minimum (i.e. zero). I'd rather not have to close yet another thread on this kind of topic.
As many people have said, it's impossible to hold a tournament in a Gamestop due to size (I have NEVER seen a Gamestop with enough room to set up a table and chairs without moving multiple fixtures) However, Gamestop does now own Think Geek, and Think Geek stores are much bigger with more floor space, I think that would be more logistically possible as well as less 'political.'
However, Gamestop does now own Think Geek, and Think Geek stores are much bigger with more floor space, I think that would be more logistically possible as well as less 'political.'
I didn't even know ThinkGeek had physical stores...
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
2) I don't know what storefronts Gamestop has in Seattle, but in my corner of the world Gamestop has barely enough space for a cardboard standee of Call of Duty 18: Putin's Revenge let alone tables and chairs for a PPTQ.
After weeks of having casual FNM events with barely enough people for half a pod, the last few weeks have seen a 30 player PPTQ the week before and drafts with at least full 8. Nothing changed with the store and nothing changed with the draft format, but I left last Friday with packs and a foil promo Opt instead of a pack and a foil fliped Illusion token and a guy left with a foil promo Noble and RPTQ invite.
Modern: (G/U)Infect (G/U)Tron
Legacy: (U/B)Tezzeret (U/B)(W/U)Miracles(W/U)(B/G)Dredge(R/W)
Commander:(U/R)Mizzix (U/R)(W/U)Sydri(U/B)(W/U)Zur(U/B)
My guess is that:
1) WoTC does legitimately want to get away from the older player base, or at least Hasbro corporate wants to.
2) There is a need to cross promote MTG Arena, and having paper tournaments at gamestop means people getting more exposure to things like redeemable game cards and the like.
3) Hasbro wants to use gamestop as a way to sell some of their toy lines besides MTG and since they are discussing the other toy lines, the idea of running paper tournaments for magic came up.
I do think they want to get away from certain groups of players and cater more towards a new audience. I'm just not sure I want to point fingers at which groups of players and the associations in the current MtG eco system like the LGS, as it would probably spark off an entire debate thread.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Might as well talk about it.
I honestly can't see the benefit of scaring away the older crowd in point #1. By older I assume Vintage/Legacy players.
Without getting into the entire Reserved List, which I think plays a huge part in all of this, I don't think any way you slice this can anyone say Vintage/Legacy players should be excised in any way. If you look at this like a group of people who steadfastly refuse to buy packs, then how would excising these players change the status quo? It's not like WotC caters to that crowd anyways. No lost revenue for a revenue stream that doesn't exist.
If by you mean older as in the Modern crowd. Then it would be impossible to get rid of them. Some Standard players are eventually going to look at their cards and look to a new format. That could be Modern, EDH or even Pauper. By this I mean that players are going to eventually look for value in these cards after their life at Standard expires. Since WotC seems to be Leary of a legacy format, the players are going to create their own and we'll be full circle again
What would be the end goal? To stop all the hoarding, investing and speculating that goes on? Then just print the damn cards that people are clamoring for instead of just one stinking card people want in a set (looking st you Iconic and M25).
TLDR;
Hasbro would be completely out of their minds.
My intuition is telling me starting any conversation involving that guy is like throwing a match into an old mine shaft full of TNT and then watching an entire tree line fold into the crater.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
That and given the way wizards does reprints it's plausible that they are trying to change modern as well by only printing support for cards they want to see non-rotating format play of. It's just they want to do it in ways that make the least amount of noise, so the still will reprint things like liliana of the veil and Snapcaster Mage, for example, at mythic rarity in the masters sets.
The part I don't agree with as far as some folks are concerned is that wizards of the coast and hasbro will drop support for LGS if they have Gamestop running events. They have zero reason to do that at this time because there is still a huge number of players that primarily attend their local game stores, and honestly does anyone trust gamestop to run tournaments?
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If they are somehow big places with lots of empty space, sure why not, i just dont know any of them, should they exist.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
FYI, what you are implying is that financial decisions are the single motivating factor behind the decisions at wizards of the coast and that isn't really the case right now. There is evidence pointing towards the company having strong political leanings and making emotional decisions that are not based upon sound financial judgement. The things that wizards are doing now are reminiscent of the bible thumper situation back when the game started, except the changes from that were from external forces. A sane company doesn't print out instructions that are to be posted at LGS locations telling people to be inclusive, carefully control comments to censor out people with even slightly different view points, and listen primarily to twitter and tumbler.
Tend to agree with some other people elsewhere that we can likely ride this whole politics thing out. WotC might have internal issues, but Hasbro is about sound business and they aren't going to put up with WoTC if it keeps bringing about drama on social media and costs them sales.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm in the same boat. I think my bedroom is bigger than my closest Game Stop.
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
For Hasbro, this makes sense. There are fewer and fewer retailers in the market. Unless you want to start hosting events at Target or WalMart, then your two go-to options are going to be Barnes and Nobles and Game Stops. Game Stop is likely a better call due to the fact that the fact that the people who regularly go to Game Stop are the same people Hasbro/WotC want to target (kids and teens).
In most areas, there are at least one or two Game Stops that are larger than the "closet" sized ones. These larger Game Stops could (if free standing product was moved to the back room) easily accommodate 8 or more players. One of my FLGSes is in the mall. Before they expanded, they were maybe half a gain as large as the smallest Game Stop that exists in my city. That store could squeeze 16+ people in every week for tournaments. I mean it is not like we are playing 40k here (6x4 table required for every two players). If you squeeze, people will fit.
I seriously doubt the goal is to be overflowing with people at each event. It is likely aimed at casual fans who are intimidated by FLGSes. This is a marketing tool to nudge people to play the game and introduce them to the greater world outside their kitchen table.
Pretty much my own opinion on it. I don't think they would run the same kind of events that a regular LGS would run unless they start selling singles there, too. I could see them running sealed tournaments and probably open house kind of events.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
They are basically a corporate/chain LGS, they already sell sealed product.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
That means local game stores will have to start carrying card singles that nobody will be able to afford online due to the combination of having to pay more for state taxes and shipping. The downside is that it makes it harder for consumers to purchase card singles online that their local game store doesn't carry which makes it even harder to complete decks for certain Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games. The potential impact of this Supreme Court hearing could actually save WotC the trouble of needing to partner with GameStop in order to "save" local game stores.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Before the rise of e-commerce there was a similar case that was brought to the U.S. Supreme Court known as Quill Corp. v. North Dakota which was ruled in favor of Quill Corp. enabling online retailers to easily sell into states in which they have no physical presence. States lost $13.4 billion in revenue in 2017, significantly impacting South Dakota and other states that rely heavily on sales taxes instead of collecting income taxes.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
It's okay, we all know you mean salty, obese, 20 and 30 something neckbeards who have their ass cracks hanging out when they play and are "that guy" that doesn't wear deoderant at the LGS. Personally, I'm all on board for this- those weirdos need to figure out their life- and no, hauling a 2 liter of mountain dew around and drinking out of it is not "normal behavior" for the average person.
*looks down to confirm he is wearing a belt* Okay I'm good.
I think we can all be honest for a bit, WOTC is kind of ashamed of being a nerdy hobby. I mean I was playing modern last night and there was a pretty broad spectrum of individuals (we had forty-two players, modern is huge in my area). But yes you had some of this cliche in the room. Magic is lagging behind video games, comics, and anime of building a subculture that isn't viewed negatively. That's why they want the gatewatch to be popular (they're awful), that's why they want cosplayers (of awful characters), that's why they want to promote women playing magic. Magic isn't "cool enough" on a mainstream level. Sure, they are a multi million dollar company with a game's that's existed for a quarter century, but they want cooler kids playing. No idea if the people they consider cooler actually spend any money on the product, but that's less important. Hell Marvel would rather sell 5K comics to "the right people" than 50K comics to anyone else.
But let's be clear, WOTC is not interested in expanding its customer base. It is interested in replacement. And you may feel better thinking its just the "neckbeards," but WOTC wants to replace way more than that.
Maybe WOTC wants “white guys” out of the game, but their shareholders will feel differently. It’s just so sad the most players won’t boycott the company, even if it’s for their own good.
When a company states that it would rather not cater to it’s majority customers that company is out of touch. I for one find it insulting that they would rather I slink off and not play their game. If they want to bite the hand that feeds maybe that hand should slap back.
This explains the Reserve List buyouts and why Hasbro has been pushing WotC to release more Masters sets. The fact of the matter is that people have been abusing the convenience of the online singles market for Trading Card Games / Collectible Card Games to put brick-and-mortar, mom and pop stores, and shopping malls out of business for their own self interest.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
That's not really abuse, that's people taking the cheapest route to making a playable deck for constructed. Wizards of the Coast does make it so that someone can build a deck out of a booster box of cards, but at the same time everyone knows the real constructed formats are standard, modern, etc. Also, the people who buy singles are almost always semi-competitive or dedicated commander players at the very least. The people who buy booster boxes and the frankly abysmal planeswalker decks are mostly into the game for fun with friends.
Finally, for people who don't have a bunch of friends to play with and only have time to go to FNM, there is the "it's dangerous to go alone, take this with you!" mind set. Basically, the player buys up a top tier standard deck because they don't want to get crushed and have a bad experience while playing against a bunch of people they are not familiar with.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)