My name is André and I play Magic for about some time now, (1998-2003,2010,2013-now) and one of the most fun things about the game, for me, it's creating and testing new decks. I love doing that. On online or irl tournaments, I always try something new, or try to build decks around cards that no one uses it, that are not exactly bad, but most of the time not worth the effort. I have fun, anyways. Sometimes I try to be competitive and run the tier 1 decks and I have fun as well.
But lately, I've had some bad experiences with MTGO, and mainly because of the way I play. Players actually complaining about my decks and cards I use.
The most recent one, I was playing a UB control deck (standard), with most of the same cards that the regular UB control uses, but I had Baral, Chief of Compliance and Primal Amulet and my wincon was Torment of Hailfire and my opponent had a grixis energy deck. Turns out I won the first game and the other play started complaining about my deck, saying it was dumb and stupid and he left the game.
Right before that, I was playing standard competitive league, with a Indomitable Creativity deck, basically I used it to cheat some dinos and glorybringers into play, destroying servo tokens and/or treasures. I won the game as well, 2-0, and the other played said I had won out of luck, because his/her deck was much better, because it was a tier 1 deck and there was no way I could win with a deck that makes no sense (he/she didn't understood the deck, I guess). I finished 4-1 in that league.
The other day I was trying a Liliana's Caress/Waste Not deck in modern, and the other played typed "..." and left the game.
And during other ocasion i was trying a treasure deck in standard and was running a few Contract Killing on the deck. When I casted it, the other player was extremelly upset with the regular "..." chat and he said "Contract Killing on constructed??". I mean...I missed the part where that is...illegal?
I guess what I mean is, what's the point? Why people are so rude about playing against other decks that are not "metagame"? Why they get so upset about seeing cards they are not expecting to see in play?
Ok, you may not like Torment Hellfire, you may thing it's dumb, but then isn't Approach the second sun dumb as well then? I bet no one would complain if were playing approach instead. Because it's META.
I don't have much to say in the way of suggestions but these experiences sound typical to competitive formats. Sounds like a pinch of people being impatient, not wanting to grind out a win against control or against a deck that's homebrew.
It could be that your a-typical decks are annoying the netdeckers who only want to play their "tier 1" copy paste against someone else's "tier 1" copy paste. Very little data/value is gained by such a person looking for such an experience by playing someone who has a homebrew.
Nothing against what you're doing, I commend it, I like to brew as well.
If someone gets surprised and out played by a deck or person they simply assume to be a worse player, they will easily become angry.
Thats just how people work and you can only be sad about them, as they never learned the lesson in life.
Going wild with decks and playing your own decks is FANTASTIC , its what makes magic such a great game, for any player that enjoys the process to build a deck and play it, and if they are well done, winning is totally possible and thats all the fun.
Thats called a Johnny, Combo Player and its a very great way to play the game, as you dont really care for winning a lot, if playing your own decks is achievement enough to make them as great as possible.
People that only play to win, play for an entirely different reason and easily get frustrated if they lose.
----
A lot of people will just stick to some deck lists from other players and they are trapped in the mindset that only these decks are "acceptable" and any other cards dont belong to the format.
Thats fine too, they can do that, and they just have to accept that they will never really do anything innovative and never enjoy the game to its full potential.
For MTGO, chat can be ignored, but its better to see the raging and blaming in the player and just laugh about it.
Its funny if they are surprised, they are legit thinking "wtf is going on here ..." and you might just rub it in their faces and laugh maniacally.
Its way more fun if you can have fun with it.
Have fun with the game in your way, nobody else has to tell you what is fun and what is not, other than yourself.
Playing an experimental or unusual deck is significantly better than just netdecking whatever won a tournament last weekend and expecting to gain some "free" or "easy" wins; the online players who do that are lazy because they want other people to do all the work for them. I was playing a similar deck for a while--Primal Amulet, Baral, inexpensive removal and card draw spells, a few sweepers, then copy a Torment of Hailfire with x = 7 or 8, which would usually be lethal. That was a lot more fun than the playing an energy deck or cheap red creatures into Hazoret.
The overall "strategy" of the sort of player you describe is as follows: they know that in Standard right now the best decks are black/blue (whether midrange or control), Grixis Energy, and Hazored. Decks which use God-Pharaoh's Gift, Approach of the Second Sun, or the explore mechanic are good but still really on the outside looking in. So they pick one of the top four, maybe change a card or two, grind out some test games against the other three decks, then head over to MTGO in an effort to 5-0. Since many other players are doing the same thing you wind up with a rock/paper/scissors-type meta.
Innovation is a rare thing in Magic. For example, why aren't black/white token decks using Eliminate the Competition against other creature-based decks? Trading servo tokens to kill larger creatures is a good plan. (actually I know why--most players are scared to death of sorcery speed, as if having to cast a spell on their own turn is both radioactive and infectious)
I don't play anything on MTGO, myself, because I choose not to get involved with toxic people. The anonymity of the online game emboldens them to be aggressive and/or insulting, behavior patterns in which they could not engage at an event at an LGS where you actually have to look your opponent in the eye.
I totally agree, there are a lot of usable cards that no one uses it because they are afraid. I mean I love Indomitable Creativity, as I used to play Polymorph decks before and had fun with them. I literally never seen someone else using it. It's funny cause everytime I cast it, I takes a while for people to read it, because most don't even know the card exists.
I had this idea back before Ulamog rotated out to put together a red token deck which had the Eldrazi titan as the only actual creature; the goal, of course, was to cast Indomitable Creativity on turn 4, sacrifice a servo/thopter/devil/goblin creature, then put Ulamog into play. No, it wouldn't get the "on cast" trigger, but so what? Turn 4 Eldrazi titan was almost a certain game win.
Sounds like you're playing against a bunch of net-deck try-hards. These people do not love MTG, they love winning and have chosen MTG as their platform to do so. Net-deck try-hards will only play tier 1 b.s. and lack any form of deck creativity. They get upset because their sideboards do not posses answers to your deck.
Frankly I love what you're doing, and if people get salty and rage quit, you've won. I relish the tears of salty net-deckers.
I find it ironic(and pathetic) when you beat someone and they claim your deck sucks. If my deck sucks and I still beat you that means I must be the superior gamer. People online can really be immature, try not to let it get to you. And if you're winning, even better. Hopefully you can find a group of like minded players how love the game for the game.
A lot of times, people playing in Competitive leagues are playtesting their decks to see how they stack up in the current meta. They don't care to play against a brew that they aren't going to see at a tournament, and have decided that anyone NOT playing an already-established list is wasting their time. You joined the league, you're playing by the rules, so you shouldn't care if they get a little salty.
I'm not trying to defend them, getting a bad attitude over an opponent's deck choice is pretty dumb, just letting you know why some people immediately hate any non-Tier deck in a Competitive league. If they're really being nasty, you can try reporting them, or you can just laugh it off as someone taking the game far too seriously. Ultimately, a salty opponent affects you exactly as much as you allow them to.
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Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 2 decades later.
"Entitled:" the entire ad hominem fallacy condensed into a single word. It doesn't strengthen your argument to attack motivations, it just makes you look like you don't understand the argument.
I get this "problem" online a lot too. I have people quit against me because "Sorry I only want to play tier decks." I also played an Indomitable Creativity deck that only had Void Winnower and Sire of Stagnation as my only creatures. It was fun as hell.
It's not a bad thing, but honestly players who are trying to play test for a GP or some other big event won't get any value from playing against your deck. They won't face it in those tournaments, so there is not much of a reason to know how to play against it.
That being said, he does sound a bit like a dick.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
It's not a bad thing, but honestly players who are trying to play test for a GP or some other big event won't get any value from playing against your deck. They won't face it in those tournaments, so there is not much of a reason to know how to play against it.
This is an argument I don't buy. If they and their chosen, fine-tuned net deck can not reliably beat home brews then maybe, just maybe they should stick to their FNM and not a GP... And given that Magic has such a wide card selection for deck building, allowing up to four of any given card, I even find it unlikely that a 'solved' format has actually the 'best' (this term is even more debatable because of preying on the metagame) decks. It is just as likely that nobody has the 'best' decks, since the meta game decks are only some fractions of percentages worse. So challenging the established decks is probably better for the pilots of the meta game decks, since they can gain experience against random piles. And if they then can't beat the home brews, they should build their decks different or go back to square one. I mean, net decks should always be favored against home brews, since the percentages against the other metagame are observable. So they should never be hugely disfavored against each other, since this would eliminate them one after another. So the only reason left to really play a net deck is because it should be better against most of self-tinkered home brews. If the net deck isn't, either somethings wrong with the net deck or with the player...
Usually a net deck WILL beat a home brew, but sometimes the composition of the home brew tends to do well vs. what the net deck is trying to do.
Years ago, I played Boros Landfall in Standard. I played 12 fetchlands. I ran into a Mill deck in Round 3 that I just could not beat. I literally had to fetch a land or never play any spells until I draw a regular non fetchland. It was frustrating playing against the deck because A. It did nothing to beat the best deck at the time (Caw Blade) and B. He had no chance of winning more than a couple more rounds, thus my tiebreakers were *****. It was a frustrating experience, but it happens. Pairings matched me with him, so he got 1 more win than he would have that day. It happens. Variance is a HUGE part of what Magic is and it would not be the same without it.
So, after a start of 1-1-1, I finished 5-2-1, missing the Day 2 cut. (Lost to RUG Cobra later on. Sick draws by the deck. Sometimes you just can't beat what they do.)
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
This is an argument I don't buy. If they and their chosen, fine-tuned net deck can not reliably beat home brews then maybe, just maybe they should stick to their FNM and not a GP... And given that Magic has such a wide card selection for deck building, allowing up to four of any given card, I even find it unlikely that a 'solved' format has actually the 'best' (this term is even more debatable because of preying on the metagame) decks. It is just as likely that nobody has the 'best' decks, since the meta game decks are only some fractions of percentages worse. So challenging the established decks is probably better for the pilots of the meta game decks, since they can gain experience against random piles. And if they then can't beat the home brews, they should build their decks different or go back to square one. I mean, net decks should always be favored against home brews, since the percentages against the other metagame are observable. So they should never be hugely disfavored against each other, since this would eliminate them one after another. So the only reason left to really play a net deck is because it should be better against most of self-tinkered home brews. If the net deck isn't, either somethings wrong with the net deck or with the player...
I agree. And the funny thing is that when some pro run a different deck on some big tournament, like the japanese player with hollow one on PT, then everyone loves it.
Also we're talking random MTGO players here. It's entirely possible they were just morons.
I've played Gather Specimens in response to a creature spell before on MTGO, its owner said "hey, that's a cool card". Then he proceeded to attempt to reanimate my Keiga, the Tide Star, my Rimefeather Owl, and activate Balthor the Defiled's ability all on the same turn as the Gather Specimens, getting more and more frustrated with every reanimated creature I stole. Then he rage-quit, saying Gather Specimens should be banned.
There's nothing wrong with brewing, but you have to remember that everyone approaches the game differently. Some players are grinding for an upcoming GP or IQ and don't want to waste their time playing against something they isn't even remotely on the competitive radar, which they find frustrating. It doesn't give them any sort of pass for them to be rude but that's the logic behind it.
And just because someone net-decks or is extremely competitive doesn't mean that they "don't like Magic" that is such an asinine thing to say. Some people like to create brews or rogue decks, some play purely casual games, others like to master their strategy of choice, tune it to their perception of the higher level of the meta and enjoy chasing wins. It's totally up to you to find the approach you like the best.
I've been in your opponents shoes. For someone like me that wants to make sure I get a lot of reps against decks I'll see in later rounds of a tournament so I can fine tune my 75, it's very annoying when I get put up against a random left field brew that would never make it in a big tournament, and it has tilted me plenty of times. But, I understand that Magic is what you make it so if you enjoy your deck then more power to you.
Sounds like you're playing against a bunch of net-deck try-hards. These people do not love MTG, they love winning and have chosen MTG as their platform to do so. Net-deck try-hards will only play tier 1 b.s. and lack any form of deck creativity. They get upset because their sideboards do not posses answers to your deck.
Frankly I love what you're doing, and if people get salty and rage quit, you've won. I relish the tears of salty net-deckers.
I find it ironic(and pathetic) when you beat someone and they claim your deck sucks. If my deck sucks and I still beat you that means I must be the superior gamer. People online can really be immature, try not to let it get to you. And if you're winning, even better. Hopefully you can find a group of like minded players how love the game for the game.
There is nothing wrong with being a competitive person and choosing MTG as the preferred method of competing. It drives people to be great. Jerks are jerks, whether they are jerks who netdeck and complain when they lose to anything that didn't top 8 the last GP or jerks who homebrew then act all high and mighty about it.
You are just as bad as the opponent in the original post.
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But lately, I've had some bad experiences with MTGO, and mainly because of the way I play. Players actually complaining about my decks and cards I use.
The most recent one, I was playing a UB control deck (standard), with most of the same cards that the regular UB control uses, but I had Baral, Chief of Compliance and Primal Amulet and my wincon was Torment of Hailfire and my opponent had a grixis energy deck. Turns out I won the first game and the other play started complaining about my deck, saying it was dumb and stupid and he left the game.
Right before that, I was playing standard competitive league, with a Indomitable Creativity deck, basically I used it to cheat some dinos and glorybringers into play, destroying servo tokens and/or treasures. I won the game as well, 2-0, and the other played said I had won out of luck, because his/her deck was much better, because it was a tier 1 deck and there was no way I could win with a deck that makes no sense (he/she didn't understood the deck, I guess). I finished 4-1 in that league.
The other day I was trying a Liliana's Caress/Waste Not deck in modern, and the other played typed "..." and left the game.
And during other ocasion i was trying a treasure deck in standard and was running a few Contract Killing on the deck. When I casted it, the other player was extremelly upset with the regular "..." chat and he said "Contract Killing on constructed??". I mean...I missed the part where that is...illegal?
I guess what I mean is, what's the point? Why people are so rude about playing against other decks that are not "metagame"? Why they get so upset about seeing cards they are not expecting to see in play?
Ok, you may not like Torment Hellfire, you may thing it's dumb, but then isn't Approach the second sun dumb as well then? I bet no one would complain if were playing approach instead. Because it's META.
It could be that your a-typical decks are annoying the netdeckers who only want to play their "tier 1" copy paste against someone else's "tier 1" copy paste. Very little data/value is gained by such a person looking for such an experience by playing someone who has a homebrew.
Nothing against what you're doing, I commend it, I like to brew as well.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334931-what-is-the-most-pimp-card-deck-youve-seen-or?comment=5361
Commander
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage Grenades! EDHGR
UWSygg's Defense, EDH - Voltron & ControlWU
BUGMimeoplasm EDH ft. Ifnir Cycling-discard comboBUG
WBTeysa, Connoisseur of CullingBW
BWSelenia & Recruiter of the Guard suicice combo EDHWB
UBRWGO-Kagachi - 5 Color Enchantments - EDHUBRWG
If someone gets surprised and out played by a deck or person they simply assume to be a worse player, they will easily become angry.
Thats just how people work and you can only be sad about them, as they never learned the lesson in life.
Going wild with decks and playing your own decks is FANTASTIC , its what makes magic such a great game, for any player that enjoys the process to build a deck and play it, and if they are well done, winning is totally possible and thats all the fun.
Thats called a Johnny, Combo Player and its a very great way to play the game, as you dont really care for winning a lot, if playing your own decks is achievement enough to make them as great as possible.
People that only play to win, play for an entirely different reason and easily get frustrated if they lose.
----
A lot of people will just stick to some deck lists from other players and they are trapped in the mindset that only these decks are "acceptable" and any other cards dont belong to the format.
Thats fine too, they can do that, and they just have to accept that they will never really do anything innovative and never enjoy the game to its full potential.
For MTGO, chat can be ignored, but its better to see the raging and blaming in the player and just laugh about it.
Its funny if they are surprised, they are legit thinking "wtf is going on here ..." and you might just rub it in their faces and laugh maniacally.
Its way more fun if you can have fun with it.
Have fun with the game in your way, nobody else has to tell you what is fun and what is not, other than yourself.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
The overall "strategy" of the sort of player you describe is as follows: they know that in Standard right now the best decks are black/blue (whether midrange or control), Grixis Energy, and Hazored. Decks which use God-Pharaoh's Gift, Approach of the Second Sun, or the explore mechanic are good but still really on the outside looking in. So they pick one of the top four, maybe change a card or two, grind out some test games against the other three decks, then head over to MTGO in an effort to 5-0. Since many other players are doing the same thing you wind up with a rock/paper/scissors-type meta.
Innovation is a rare thing in Magic. For example, why aren't black/white token decks using Eliminate the Competition against other creature-based decks? Trading servo tokens to kill larger creatures is a good plan. (actually I know why--most players are scared to death of sorcery speed, as if having to cast a spell on their own turn is both radioactive and infectious)
I don't play anything on MTGO, myself, because I choose not to get involved with toxic people. The anonymity of the online game emboldens them to be aggressive and/or insulting, behavior patterns in which they could not engage at an event at an LGS where you actually have to look your opponent in the eye.
Frankly I love what you're doing, and if people get salty and rage quit, you've won. I relish the tears of salty net-deckers.
I find it ironic(and pathetic) when you beat someone and they claim your deck sucks. If my deck sucks and I still beat you that means I must be the superior gamer. People online can really be immature, try not to let it get to you. And if you're winning, even better. Hopefully you can find a group of like minded players how love the game for the game.
I'm not trying to defend them, getting a bad attitude over an opponent's deck choice is pretty dumb, just letting you know why some people immediately hate any non-Tier deck in a Competitive league. If they're really being nasty, you can try reporting them, or you can just laugh it off as someone taking the game far too seriously. Ultimately, a salty opponent affects you exactly as much as you allow them to.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 2 decades later.
"Entitled:" the entire ad hominem fallacy condensed into a single word. It doesn't strengthen your argument to attack motivations, it just makes you look like you don't understand the argument.
That being said, he does sound a bit like a dick.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)This is an argument I don't buy. If they and their chosen, fine-tuned net deck can not reliably beat home brews then maybe, just maybe they should stick to their FNM and not a GP... And given that Magic has such a wide card selection for deck building, allowing up to four of any given card, I even find it unlikely that a 'solved' format has actually the 'best' (this term is even more debatable because of preying on the metagame) decks. It is just as likely that nobody has the 'best' decks, since the meta game decks are only some fractions of percentages worse. So challenging the established decks is probably better for the pilots of the meta game decks, since they can gain experience against random piles. And if they then can't beat the home brews, they should build their decks different or go back to square one. I mean, net decks should always be favored against home brews, since the percentages against the other metagame are observable. So they should never be hugely disfavored against each other, since this would eliminate them one after another. So the only reason left to really play a net deck is because it should be better against most of self-tinkered home brews. If the net deck isn't, either somethings wrong with the net deck or with the player...
Years ago, I played Boros Landfall in Standard. I played 12 fetchlands. I ran into a Mill deck in Round 3 that I just could not beat. I literally had to fetch a land or never play any spells until I draw a regular non fetchland. It was frustrating playing against the deck because A. It did nothing to beat the best deck at the time (Caw Blade) and B. He had no chance of winning more than a couple more rounds, thus my tiebreakers were *****. It was a frustrating experience, but it happens. Pairings matched me with him, so he got 1 more win than he would have that day. It happens. Variance is a HUGE part of what Magic is and it would not be the same without it.
So, after a start of 1-1-1, I finished 5-2-1, missing the Day 2 cut. (Lost to RUG Cobra later on. Sick draws by the deck. Sometimes you just can't beat what they do.)
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I agree. And the funny thing is that when some pro run a different deck on some big tournament, like the japanese player with hollow one on PT, then everyone loves it.
I've played Gather Specimens in response to a creature spell before on MTGO, its owner said "hey, that's a cool card". Then he proceeded to attempt to reanimate my Keiga, the Tide Star, my Rimefeather Owl, and activate Balthor the Defiled's ability all on the same turn as the Gather Specimens, getting more and more frustrated with every reanimated creature I stole. Then he rage-quit, saying Gather Specimens should be banned.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
And just because someone net-decks or is extremely competitive doesn't mean that they "don't like Magic" that is such an asinine thing to say. Some people like to create brews or rogue decks, some play purely casual games, others like to master their strategy of choice, tune it to their perception of the higher level of the meta and enjoy chasing wins. It's totally up to you to find the approach you like the best.
I've been in your opponents shoes. For someone like me that wants to make sure I get a lot of reps against decks I'll see in later rounds of a tournament so I can fine tune my 75, it's very annoying when I get put up against a random left field brew that would never make it in a big tournament, and it has tilted me plenty of times. But, I understand that Magic is what you make it so if you enjoy your deck then more power to you.
BG/x BG
There is nothing wrong with being a competitive person and choosing MTG as the preferred method of competing. It drives people to be great. Jerks are jerks, whether they are jerks who netdeck and complain when they lose to anything that didn't top 8 the last GP or jerks who homebrew then act all high and mighty about it.
You are just as bad as the opponent in the original post.